The Watering Hole

This is a question more specific to my Roadster, but could apply to other amps of this nature.  Is it better to have your channel volume high and gradually crank the Master or dime the master and gradually turn up the channel volume or 50/50?  I've experimented a little and I seem to like it, especially lead channels, with the channel volume dimed and the master up a little.  But this seems a little counter-intuitive to what should yield best results.  

Any thoughts on this guys?  

Either way, I have a feeling I may be buying an attenuator...

Be careful with an attenuator, they eat tubes if used incorrectly according to Bob of Eurotubes

Chris, Not a lot of people have a great deal of love for attenuated Boogies, especially with a THD Hotplate.

I have heard that most people who try this route end up hating the sound. I guess you could be in a position to 'try before you buy' given your occupation and would strongly advise that you do so.

Not dissin' anyones products here, just passing on what I got feedback wise when I looked at going the same route for recording at home.

As it happens Chris, I've been playing with those two controls a lot since I finished the pedalboard and have found that (bearing in mind that I'm using the clean channel) if I have the channel volume way up and bring in the master volume to suit, the roadking sounds shit until the master is at a level where my ears bleed and next doors cat is dead. I found that getting it sounding good at this setting then backing off the channel volume the most satisfactory way to get a good balance between volume and tone with these things.

Hope this helps

Spud

That's how I do it.  I bring the channel volume way up and then brin gin the master.  

Dime both channel and master  then gradually reduce the master down to the point where your ears stop bleeding.

To add to what Spud said, ALL attenuators are audible.  You have to decide if what you lose with it is worth what you gain by cranking the tubes.  However, most people agree that only the first few notches on most attenuators are tolerable.  Once you turn them down more than 6dB or so, they degrade tone to an unacceptable level.  

Those are "general" comments.  Specific incompatibilities such as Spud mentioned can apply as well.  I have a schematic and plans to build an "Air Brake" and will probably get around too it eventually.  

spud — Aug 21, 2008Chris, Not a lot of people have a great deal of love for attenuated Boogies, especially with a THD Hotplate.

I have heard that most people who try this route end up hating the sound. I guess you could be in a position to 'try before you buy' given your occupation and would strongly advise that you do so.

Not dissin' anyones products here, just passing on what I got feedback wise when I looked at going the same route for recording at home.

As it happens Chris, I've been playing with those two controls a lot since I finished the pedalboard and have found that (bearing in mind that I'm using the clean channel) if I have the channel volume way up and bring in the master volume to suit, the roadking sounds shit until the master is at a level where my ears bleed and next doors cat is dead. I found that getting it sounding good at this setting then backing off the channel volume the most satisfactory way to get a good balance between volume and tone with these things.

Hope this helps

Spud

Thanks for the heads-up on the THDs.  That would have likely been my first candidate.  

I'll have to try what you suggest for the balance a little.  I tried goofing with that a little, but didn't have time to do too much before I left town for a few days (still out of town till Sunday).  

I've tried the two extremes now and need to find the compromise.  I first tried cranking the Master Volume to about 50% and then cracked the channel volumes up to the right level.  Not bad.  Cranking channel volume then cracking the Master was better to my ear, but I can't get the master up to the point of really cooking the power tubes without killing small farm animals.  

I may either look at a Weber Mass or an Ultimate Attenuater (heard anything about those with a Boogie Spud?).  

Could it be time for my semi-annual posting of this article?  ;)

Fletcher Munson Curve

This, more than the attenuator, is why the tone won't sound as good at lower volumes.

Somewhere at the Hole was either a comparison or a link to a comparison between the THD Hot Plate and the Weber MASS (I've got both).  It was basically showing how close to the original "tone" the attenuator could get.  Of course, just like you have a Loudness button for most stereos (which is basically there to boost the frequencies that sound deficient at lower volumes), you'd need to re-EQ your sound to get it to appear to sound the same.

There is something to be said for pushing air, anything that helps you get distortion while decreasing air movement is a compromise in tone. Of course we all have pedals for that sort of compromise, and they work well, but nothing works like power amp distortion pushing lots of air. But we can get close with distortion stomps.

Dearthian: — Aug 21, 2008[quote author=spud link=1219279311/0#2 date=1219302723]Chris, Not a lot of people have a great deal of love for attenuated Boogies, especially with a THD Hotplate.

I have heard that most people who try this route end up hating the sound. I guess you could be in a position to 'try before you buy' given your occupation and would strongly advise that you do so.

Not dissin' anyones products here, just passing on what I got feedback wise when I looked at going the same route for recording at home.

As it happens Chris, I've been playing with those two controls a lot since I finished the pedalboard and have found that (bearing in mind that I'm using the clean channel) if I have the channel volume way up and bring in the master volume to suit, the roadking sounds shit until the master is at a level where my ears bleed and next doors cat is dead. I found that getting it sounding good at this setting then backing off the channel volume the most satisfactory way to get a good balance between volume and tone with these things.

Hope this helps

Spud

Thanks for the heads-up on the THDs.  That would have likely been my first candidate.  

I'll have to try what you suggest for the balance a little.  I tried goofing with that a little, but didn't have time to do too much before I left town for a few days (still out of town till Sunday).  

I've tried the two extremes now and need to find the compromise.  I first tried cranking the Master Volume to about 50% and then cracked the channel volumes up to the right level.  Not bad.  Cranking channel volume then cracking the Master was better to my ear, but I can't get the master up to the point of really cooking the power tubes without killing small farm animals.  

I may either look at a Weber Mass or an Ultimate Attenuater (heard anything about those with a Boogie Spud?).  


I tried to find the Guitar Buyer issue that had a review of the Weber Mass so I could read it again and be sure of what I say but I can't find it anywhere >:(.
I "Think" they said that the Mass wass the most faithful attenuater they had tried and that went across the board for the amps they had on review at the time which I think, included a Boogie Stilleto Duece. Can't be sure about this Chris so I'll say again..Try before you buy and in the meantime keep playing with the balance of those two controls. You may well hit a sweetspot that ticks all the right boxes and save yourself a whole bunch of $'s.

CraigBert — Aug 21, 2008Could it be time for my semi-annual posting of this article?  ;)

Fletcher Munson Curve

This, more than the attenuator, is why the tone won't sound as good at lower volumes.

Somewhere at the Hole was either a comparison or a link to a comparison between the THD Hot Plate and the Weber MASS (I've got both).  It was basically showing how close to the original "tone" the attenuator could get.  Of course, just like you have a Loudness button for most stereos (which is basically there to boost the frequencies that sound deficient at lower volumes), you'd need to re-EQ your sound to get it to appear to sound the same.

There is more to it than that.

When you record an amp at different volumes quite extreme tonal differences show up on play back - loud recordings are  generally much fatter.