The Watering Hole

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/steve-jobs-apple-ceo-dies/story?id=14383813

:(

Only 56...  :(

Yep, even the rich have no defense against pancreatic cancer. RIP Steve. Although I don't hold him in the highest regard.

From another geezer on another of my forums

The bullshit I've read today! Some people actually believe that he invented the graphical user interface (the smart guys at Xerox, Palo Alto did), the mouse (Xerox again), desktop publishing (Aldus), the mac (Steve Wozniak), and Pixar (a department of Lucas Film started by Ed Catmull, that Jobs bought from Lucas for $5million in 1986).

True enough Xerox Parc, and Woz did the real work on the Mac, and the Apple II. I ain't going to speak ill of the dead but his fame and fortune came on the backs of others and he took all the credit.

Jobs was like a conductor in a symphony orchestra, without the musicians a conductor would not be much of anything to speak about. Same with Jobs the folks at Apple who worked day to day on the products they made are the real hero's, same as the musicians in a symphony orchestra but the conductor always gets the praise.

I never loved Apple until the iPhone, and I agree that everything Apple was built from other pieces.

But Jobs brought it all together. He brought typography to computers, the graphical interface to the personal computer, and the personal computer to the world.  There's no way we can overestimate his impact... there was no legitimate personal computer before Apple.  There were MP3 players before the iPod, cell phones before the iPhone, tablet computers before the iPad, online music services before iTunes.  But each product redefined the way we see the world.  Lots of other people built cars, engines, etc., but it was Ford's manufacturing techniques made them affordable and put them in every home.  

He truly was a visionary and the turnaround he executed at Apple is, and deserves to be, legendary.

I agree, however, truth be told he was part of a large and talented team. Not the great guru everyone seems to believe. He did a good job at what he did. But nothing more than many other successful business men would have done, they just picked the wrong guys to replace him when they kicked him out back in the early Mac only days. If he was such a genius on his own, hows come the NEXT computer flopped?

He did nothing more than any other successful businessmen would have done? Are you crazy? He made apple, Apple, dude. The first man to walk on the moon is famous and he didn't build the spacecraft he rode in. And why then, aren't the stocks of all successful businessmen in Apple's league? The marketing scheme and the products offered, not to mention the design and ease of use, have proven to be no mistake. The man was a genius. There's no way to dispute that.

Hookbender — Oct 08, 2011He did nothing more than any other successful businessmen would have done? Are you crazy? He made apple, Apple, dude. The first man to walk on the moon is famous and he didn't build the spacecraft he rode in. And why then, aren't the stocks of all successful businessmen in Apple's league? The marketing scheme and the products offered, not to mention the design and ease of use, have proven to be no mistake. The man was a genius. There's no way to dispute that.

Ok you have your opinion, and lots of folks agree, but you can type from now till doomsday and I won't change my mind about him. He was good at what he did, but he had a lot of talented folks working with him, and not many people liked him that did work for him or for apple. So he was a genius you say, lots of others think he was not the finest person. (and I am being gentle with that comment because I do not want to speak ill of the dead). I admired him for a while, but he had lots of help, and a lot of high paid people who deserved everything they got in pay. As a team leader he was real good, but without the product designers, he would not be thought of as such a genius I bet. And here is a little known fact I read somewhere, he did not want to do I Pod and I tunes, it took someone who did develop the idea a lot of convincing to talk him into it. So where is the lauding for that guy? And that is that. I have had my say so over and out.

Well, your right in a way.

Jobs returned to apple in 1997. He left in 1985. For that 10 plus years apple just kinda hung around. They were really starting to be non-profitable, if I remember that correctly. Jobs came back and they started being profitable again in 1997 or 1998, can't remember. For ten years apple was kinda stagnate(sp?). Then they started to grow again with his return. Now look at Apple.

Being successful in a big business is directly related to the people you hire around you. Jobs biggest individual success, imo, is he took box of damn good ideas that were scattered all over Apple floors, organized them, found a purpose for them, and hired the right people to put it together for him. He marketed the product amazingly well. He was CEO, he made the calls. He hired people that wanted to make the best products in the world. As ceo, the decisions to go forward with an idea can make you, or break you. He made the right decisions.

His job wasn't to win popularity contest, nor was that his goal, I'm sure. It was to be successful at what he loved to do. I've read where he spent much time away from his family, but his last weeks were spent mostly with his family. He was ask the question what he thought about his kids or something like that and he said it was 10,000 times better than anything he's done in his lifetime. Something like that.

I'm sure he wasn't perfect, personally, but who is? But as a businessman he was damn good. Better than most. That was my point.  

Here's an interview with Steve Jobs:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/oct2004/nf20041012_4018_db083.htm

Steve Jobs

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/10/05/1853357/chronology-shows-steve-jobs-roles.html

I have to agree, he was good at what he did, very good. And as a front man he was very-very good. But as a musician you have to know the front-men are not always the most talented folks in the band, they are just the best at presenting the stuff that he/she and the rest of the band puts out. I am the biggest fan of sidemen, the drums, the bass, the keys guy, and the rhythm guitarists, I am mostly not a fan of singers or shredders, although some of them are stellar, and those who are that gifted I am very pleased to watch and hear, but they are few and far between.

Jobs did well, I have to agree with that I just don't see the connection between what he did, and the literal meaning of the word "genius". Very smart, yes, very talented, yes. Genius, question mark. Business is not that difficult to understand. Especially when you do it every day. But I do bet there were some geniuses at Apple, the engineers and software developers, the hardware technicians, the idea men/women, lots of folks went into Apple's success, Jobs was the front-man.

RIP Steve Jobs.

He was great with outsourcing production.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357833/Apple-responds-suicides-Chinese-Foxconn-factory-hanging-nets.html

Jobs was way more than a front man.

You think that you could come out with a product, any product, that would continue to have success and sell even in this economy? How many computer companies have stock values as high as Apple's right now?

The genius is the guy who brought the great guitarist, great keyboard player, bass player, etc and topped it off with a outstanding lead singer. All these guys may have been successful apart, but when brought together they become something special. Unique.

By the way, like him or not, you didn't hear to much about any of these guys your mentioning with Michael Jackson. I don't know one guys name in BB Kings band, and really don't care to.

Hookbender — Oct 09, 2011Jobs was way more than a front man.
By the way, like him or not, you didn't hear to much about any of these guys your mentioning with Michael Jackson. I don't know one guys name in BB Kings band, and really don't care to.

There is a difference in being an artist, and someone seeking fame and fortune or who is star struck. It is true I don't know the names of the folks who are the sidemen. I don't really care who they are or what their names are, I just admire what they do. And I don't really care about Michael Jackson. I did have one of his albums Thriller and I really admired the production and arrangement on that album. The producer was Quincy Jones, I admired the heck outta his skill. In fact I think the weakest thing in the album was Michael Jackson's voice. You admire stardom (I assume from the statement above) I admire craftsmanship. Don't know which one has more value, but craftsmanship has more value to me. Now as for BB King he is a national treasure, I saw him live once, but his band is peopled by excellent musical craftsmen. I admired each and every one of them for their skill however I really don't care what their names are either.

Britteny Spears is also a mega star, but I don't have a single ounce of admiration for her nor most other front-men, but I admire the heck outta her producer and arranger.  It is all a matter of personal preference and experience.

Hookbender — Oct 09, 2011Jobs was way more than a front man. You think that you could come out with a product, any product, that would continue to have success and sell even in this economy? How many computer companies have stock values as high as Apple's right now?

Sorry Hook, I never cared about business, I had to do it before I retired. I was good at it. I was very successful for the companies I worked for as an estimator and project manager in the construction industry, but at the end of the day I did not give a rip about it. I just did it because I had to.

I do not admire businessmen. Because I know what they do and how they do it. Business is simple. It is peopled by folks who live a life filled with greed in many cases. I really do not associate with those kind of folks anymore and I am better off for it.

I pursue a different tack in life, I am into seeking inner silence, so I can view the secrets of the universe. I am so far removed from "success" as to be in a different universe. The folks I admire are those who have achieved inner silence, because that is where my preference in life lay. So for me Jobs was just another greedy asshole. He lived a life filled with illusion, and he bought the illusion lock stock and barrel, and he died like most other men, never knowing what the world around him contained. All of his success meant nothing, he died without ever unlocking the secrets that are all around us.

That is what I am up to, unlocking the stuff that is hidden from the 5 senses. It has absolutely no value in the business world. And that is why I do not admire business men. What they do is transitory. In 5 years all that Jobs did will be nothing but old technology, and if he was not ever here, someone else would have done something similar, where as the likes of Gandhi and Martin Luther King will stand the test of time for as long as humans live on this earth. Certain things have lasting value.

If you don't like business as much as you say, you could never appreciate what any business person accomplishes. And Apple has been doing it's thing with unique products successfully for over 10 years and regardless whether you like their stuff or not, I don't see anything remotely close to their products.

I really like blues music. their isn't much "fame", so to speak, in this category of music so fame probably isn't my top priority.

It seems to me that if you were a construction person you could appreciate how your success depended on you getting the right group of people together to complete your projects successfully.

"I am into seeking inner silence, so I can view the secrets of the universe."

Now this perked my interest. Can you explain this in more detail?

Hookbender — Oct 10, 2011"I am into seeking inner silence, so I can view the secrets of the universe."

Now this perked my interest. Can you explain this in more detail?

I was just trying to point out what the differences are between my personal interest and yours, I do not think mine is superior to yours for you, just the difference in how we think, and what we think is important, and where we place our preferences and attention. I am not into business anymore, at this stage in my life I can concentrate on the more sublime pursuits.

I finally have the time and calm to try and delve into the things beyond the 5 senses. I used to do LSD and all kinds of psychedelic substances, and what other people called hallucinations, I called adventures into different forms of attention. Once my work life was done, I finally have the time to spend meditating on inner silence. I think from some of the things I have experienced in my adventures into other forms of attention that they are not only other realities, but actual places we cannot perceive using our normal 5 senses, but still, actually do exist, and they can be accessed with the use of drugs, or a practice I call inner silence pursuit. Or meditation as it is commonly called.

It is a thing I consider important because I have been someone who naturally had adventures into different forms of attention all of my life even though I never considered them important before the use of the psychedelic drugs. Once I did those, I began to really notice these adventures as something interesting. I am convinced for instance that we live in a twin world. One side peopled by beings that have awareness with organisms, and the other side peopled by beings that have awareness without organisms. So now that I am aware of these other things I decided that I wanted to unlock those secrets by the only path I know of to "see" into these other things, inner silence pursuit. It has no value, I can not gain anything by doing it. but I think with relentless effort I can somehow unlock the barriers between myself and the other forms of awareness that inhabit the Earth along side of us.

In other words I am trying to access what the religious call "The Spirit", although I think it is a practical energetic matter. Something that may give me clues to travel onward after life. It does have a practical benefit (which is a side issue to me). I have begun to see things that help me in society, I have much less anger for one thing. I am also aware of how my actions do send out waves to others and do effect them. So I am able to mitigate those influences from antagonistic to informative consciously. In other words I am becoming more socially conscious, I am able to master myself much better in many cases and what I put out there is more to the creative side instead of the destructive.

I want to point out I am not religious. This is just my way of maintaining interest in what impresses me. In other words I am "crazy" for attempting something that has no real value in our daily world. But it is interesting to me. I just hope I have the time to accomplish some inner silence, because I hear/read from some of the scriptures and other publications if I can achieve it, I can actually view the flow of energy in the universe, and in that way understand better how life works.

One of the publications I have read pointed out to me how the ordinary pursuits in a human life are empty, and lead nowhere, and I believe it. I actually am convinced that inner silence can have an effect on an afterlife experience. In other words I can perhaps steer myself to extending my personal awareness into that other twin world. Don't know if I can achieve it but as crazy as it sounds I am going for it, just because I think it is a reality I can achieve if I keep at it. I am not afraid of death, but I am bumping up against it at 69 years old. I don't know what occurs after death, but I think I have a clue as to where I would like to end up if in fact I do continue in awareness.

And my apologies to anyone who was offended by my non admiration of Steve Jobs. Not because he was not a force for accomplishment. He was, I just don't think what he did was important. If he did not do it, someone else would have done something similar. Maybe not at Apple but somewhere. The fact that he was not a nice guy to the folks who worked under him mitigated my opinion of his greatness a big bunch. From my personal perspective, what Steve Jobs did was just a reflection of the creative energy which has a consciousness of it's own. All Steve Jobs was, was a conduit for that creative force. If he was not there to be the conduit, someone else would have been that conduit. That is another reason why I don't think that much of him. However I do think the creative force is pretty impressive........

As musicians we all have a link to the creative. We usually call it the muse. I have written songs and never knew where they came from. The ideas just popped into my head and I wrote them down. Even though I am not a great songwriter, others who are say the same thing. That is the conduit I am talking about. The muse is that creative force for musicians.

desertbluesman — Oct 07, 2011I agree, however, truth be told he was part of a large and talented team. Not the great guru everyone seems to believe. He did a good job at what he did. But nothing more than many other successful business men would have done, they just picked the wrong guys to replace him when they kicked him out back in the early Mac only days. If he was such a genius on his own, hows come the NEXT computer flopped?

A better question is, why did Apple completely founder after the fired Jobs?  

dbm, why do you want to even jump into this thread, man?  Seriously.  A guy who completely revolutionized a whole industrial space just died, and you jump in to tell us he was unimportant and a crappy person? Half the posts in a thread honoring a dead guy are abut you and your ego.  Get real, man.  You want to find some inner peace?  How about, you got nothing good to say, don't say it, that's probably a good place to start.  I mean, seriously, this is a thread about a dead person whom many revered.  I am in two bands with two separate high-ups at Apple, a principal engineer on the iPhone camera and a manager on the iOS team, both of whom worked at Apple for more than ten years, and both of whom absolutely loved Steve Jobs, as do many other Apple employees, yet according to you, they all hated him and he stepped on them all.  Where do you get this crap? And more important, why? You want people to post shit like this about you after you die?

Your not religious but your looking to shape life after death?

Fuck, and I thought I had strange thoughts. ;D ;D

Just kidding. But really, does that make sense to you to start with?

I think finding that better senses thing can be done in 30 seconds by taking a a puff of mary-jane. Why waste extra time? ;D ;D I guarantee taste, hearing, and sometimes touch. ;D

Marketing.


http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/now-why-apple-launched-iphone-4s-instead-iphone-154636512.html

I'm assuming Jobs made this call.