The Watering Hole

http://gizmodo.com/363154/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-a-coat-hanger

I can't believe I drank the kool-aid and bought a Monster Speaker Cable and I could have gotten by with a wire coat hanger.  

That is very funny.  Kind of squashes that old debate. :-?

I do NOT agree with their conclusions!  They didn't listen to vinyl through a $200,000 stereo system!  :D

75dB???  Coat hanger???    

This is funny.  Not true, but funny.  ;)      

DreamTheaterRules — Nov 27, 201375dB???  Coat hanger???    

This is funny.  Not true, but funny.  ;)      

"Not true" he says.  Riiiiight.  ;)

:)  What are your coat hangers made out of?  IF they are steel, they would could simply be twisted as pairs (as they said they did) and would conduct electricity.  Seen any raw steel ones?  Ever?  I haven't.  They are all painted or coated or both.  So we have to ASSUME that even for the coat hangers to work, they had to strip the coating/paint off the ends before soldering.  

Done any serious listening at 75dB lately?   Me either.   :)  This funny because it was only done to get attention.  It was done 4-5 years ago (read all about it at the time) and the sole purpose was to create a controversy.  Lots of questions were asked, like...1)why name the speakers, but NOTHING else in the chain? Clearly throwing a cheap digital front end in there WOULD minimize the differences of any other components used.  2) Why do a blind supposedly critical listening test at such a low level?  Even if you knew the other components used, how do you know ANYTHING else in the system is set up correctly.  Intentionally poor setup, even with other good stuff, can again minimize effects of things later in the chain.  And how critical WAS the listening?  I can be in the same room as a set of Inifinity Reference Standards but that doesn't mean I am in a critical listening position.  And on and on.  They said enough to create controversy.  When people started asking questions, there weren't any answers given.

I could say more, but a better thought to leave you with would be this:  If you like your stereo, and you can't tell the difference between speaker cable and coat hanger, consider yourself lucky!  Just think of all the money you'll save by not hearing those tubes going bad until they blow.  Or on not hearing the difference in one tube vs/ another so you just buy the cheapest one when the last one blows.  Oh heck, what am I talking about??? You don't need tube amps!  Get solid state or better yet, digital modeling!!!  You can have every great amp ever made in one $300 combo!!!  

Boombox, Line 6 Flextone 1, made in China guitar, couple Dano pedals....  You're golden!  If that works for you, be glad!    ;D ;D ;D

(Tongue in check.  Just have to poke back a little when you get that picture out.   ;D )  

DreamTheaterRules — Nov 27, 2013 Oh heck, what am I talking about???   

Sorry, didn't have time to read your whole reply, but I did see this part!  ;D

One of the best systems I ever heard was a DIY very low wattage style with solid, raw (i.e., unshielded, uncovered) copper wires about an 1/8" thick going to each speaker and the subwoofer.  Someday I'll have to look into that design more.  :)

Solid core copper is a legit speaker cable material. A little rolled off on top, but legit. Painted steel... Nah

Electrons are electrons, and it's entirely possible there's less capacitance in a coat hanger than in some expensive monster cable.  DTR may not believe that a coathanger will conduct electricity, but I bet he won't stick one in a power outlet, coated or not.  

Point in fact, we've measured a shitload of cables with some very accurate multimeters and we've consistently found that the best cables (least capacitive) are cheapo RCA cables.  Just cut the ends off, and you've got a double pair of very low capacitance, excellent sounding wire, and as a bonus, it's shielded. If you ever look in one of my pedals, I do a a fair bit of critical wiring with shielded RCA cable.

DreamTheaterRules — Nov 28, 2013Solid core copper is a legit speaker cable material. A little rolled off on top, but legit. Painted steel... Nah

Why do you think solid core copper would be rolled off on top, as compared to multiple strands of copper? Skin effect?  I'd measure this instead of assuming.

actually, you got me again.  I have not scientifically tested this for myself.  I have however read tests where they did just this and said (showed with charts) that that the top was rolled off a bit.  

That would imply capacitance, which is what rolls off high end.  I'm not 100% on this because there *is* skin effect in any single solid wire.  However, stranded wire is just a whole bunch of little solid wires, and I've heard there is a similar tradeoff where electrons on the skin jump from wire to wire. The only stranded wire that is immune is Litz wire, in which each solid core is specially insulated fromt he other, which is godawful expensive and overkill.  Anyway, there are real negatives to solid wire--it's not going to be very flxible, it has to be installed and then kind of left alone.  But the positive, for installed wiring, you can mold it to exactly where you want it.  I'm just not sure there's going to be any audible or measurable difference in audio between solid copper and stranded copper, given similar resistance and capacitance.  But I also don't know, and I see audiophile manufacturers arguing and profiting from both sides of the argument, so there you go.

There is a guy at BYOC that uses all solid core inside his pedals and they look incredibly cool and neat inside as he bends it to run perfect lines then 90 degree bend to where they attach.  

What is this "RCA" wire you are talking about?

DreamTheaterRules — Dec 02, 2013There is a guy at BYOC that uses all solid core inside his pedals and they look incredibly cool and neat inside as he bends it to run perfect lines then 90 degree bend to where they attach.  

What is this "RCA" wire you are talking about?

Like that kind of RCA cable.  Pretty much any kind you cut the ends off is going to smoke any standard wire you find.  I've seriously considered rewiring my entire pedalboard with this stuff (I bought a 25 foot stereo for something like $8, and of course, it's got two wires, so it ends up being 50 feet, this pic is of the video variety, so you get 3X the cable)...

Don't take it from me, though.  Chop the ends off one you've got laying around, and measure the capacitance vs. any other audio cable you have.

As for the solid core wire, I use it in pedals too, especially when I want something to stay put.  Typically for ground wires, power wires, anything that needs to travel a long distance, etc.  There is no skin effect for DC, which is a lot of the signal in a pedal, it only exhibits on AC signals, and is also pretty negligible at the currents in a pedal.

I'm not arguing either way, and this may have nothing to do with the topic, but...

I went through a cable phase with my studio monitors. I tried rca, xlr. and quarter inch. The only real difference in "quality" of sound "I" could hear was when i went xlr from the monitors into quarter inch to a mixer.

I had the cheapest guitar cable guitar center had at one time. I went ape shit and bought a Monster cable. It sounded better, no doubt, but not 10 or 15 times better.

What's even better is if you've got cable or satellite TV.  When the guy comes out to set your TV up, I never have any cables attached and they always give me a new one that has FIVE cables attached together (red, green, blue for video plus red and white for audio).