55 posts
OK. Me and Pickmaster, (my cousin) are in a argument. Hears the just of it.
My claim is that you can't control who you fall in love with. He says, you can. Even if your around the person everyday, you can stop yourself from falling in love with a person your attracted to. Neither one of us, especially me, can find evidence for either side of the argument. Forget marriage and relationships, just the emotion of falling in love is considered.
Your thoughts, evidence, or opinion?
Or right. Depending on your view. ;D
Hookbender — Sep 18, 2012OK. Me and Pickmaster, (my cousin) are in a argument. Hears the just of it.
My claim is that you can't control who you fall in love with. He says, you can. Even if your around the person everyday, you can stop yourself from falling in love with a person your attracted to. Neither one of us, especially me, can find evidence for either side of the argument. Forget marriage and relationships, just the emotion of falling in love is considered.
Your thoughts, evidence, or opinion?
I have made it a lifetime effort to control my emotions, and after a lifetime of effort, I have a large degree of control over how I feel, and what I let through to feel emotionally. But the thing is; you have to want that control and then you have to find out how to implement it. That is why I meditate daily, it gives me a self control I never had. I don't meditate to find God or anything like that, I simply do it so I can attain inner silence, and in that inner silence I find a great amount of control over myself and my ability to stop overreacting from things outside myself.
I love my wife dearly Hook but if she were to dump me today I would be in control of my feelings by the end of the day and not looking back within a week. And you can take that to the bank.....
I vote no, you can't control it. I say this because if you could completely control that, nobody would ever fall in love with someone that is not in love with them, and that happens ALL THE TIME!
DreamTheaterRules — Sep 21, 2012I vote no, you can't control it. I say this because if you could completely control that, nobody would ever fall in love with someone that is not in love with them, and that happens ALL THE TIME!
A wise man speaks the truth
+1
desertbluesman — Sep 21, 2012[quote author=Hookbender link=1347929277/0#0 date=1347929275]OK. Me and Pickmaster, (my cousin) are in a argument. Hears the just of it.
My claim is that you can't control who you fall in love with. He says, you can. Even if your around the person everyday, you can stop yourself from falling in love with a person your attracted to. Neither one of us, especially me, can find evidence for either side of the argument. Forget marriage and relationships, just the emotion of falling in love is considered.
Your thoughts, evidence, or opinion?
I have made it a lifetime effort to control my emotions, and after a lifetime of effort, I have a large degree of control over how I feel, and what I let through to feel emotionally. But the thing is; you have to want that control and then you have to find out how to implement it. That is why I meditate daily, it gives me a self control I never had. I don't meditate to find God or anything like that, I simply do it so I can attain inner silence, and in that inner silence I find a great amount of control over myself and my ability to stop overreacting from things outside myself.
I love my wife dearly Hook but if she were to dump me today I would be in control of my feelings by the end of the day and not looking back within a week. And you can take that to the bank.....
Yeah.... I would be too.... but, 2 beautiful little thoughts keep clouding my ability to think like that. My 2 girls.
Jon — Sep 21, 2012[quote author=DreamTheaterRules link=1347929277/0#4 date=1348247921]I vote no, you can't control it. I say this because if you could completely control that, nobody would ever fall in love with someone that is not in love with them, and that happens ALL THE TIME!
A wise man speaks the truth
+1
Just think what a insult it would be if your sittin around with a fine chick and your really good friends and you say, hey, fuck it, we have a great time together, lets meet up Friday night, see a movie, and fall in love by say, 9:15? And she says no and walks away. ;D ;D I guess I'll reschedule falling in love for a later date. ;D And with a different girl. ;D ;D
Although, I bet the concept of being able to control that emotion would be grand. Instead of the question that people stress over all the time and means shit, marriage, they would be thinking about what makes a relationship last. Love. It really would be a important question. Marriage is putting the cart before the horse.
Then when you get in a argument with your spouse, you can fall out of love and not give a fuck just long enough to let that bitch have it. Then, make yourself fall back in love with her, if she still looks good, say your sorry, just had a bad love thing going on for a minute. Now, I love you again. Whats for dinner?
Hookbender — Sep 21, 2012
Yeah.... I would be too.... but, 2 beautiful little thoughts keep clouding my ability to think like that. My 2 girls.
Yep I understand completely about the kids Hook. I had two sons and when the wife and I split, I took them with me, not because a judge ordered it, but because the kids wanted to come with me, and the wife listened to them, and let them decide. (And she was pregnant with another mans baby when we finally divorced). That was a tough one for me at the time, but it was how I learned how to start the emotive control thing. At first I went out running, I would run until it hurt so bad I could not feel the emotional pain over the physical pain. Then I would turn around and run (hobble) home. I did that for weeks and weeks until it turned into a daily routine that lasted months. Then my youngest son started running with me. But I did have custody of the children and raised them both up to be productive members of society.
I wish you the best of luck with the two little girls, I hope you can get it resolved.
DreamTheaterRules — Sep 21, 2012I vote no, you can't control it. I say this because if you could completely control that, nobody would ever fall in love with someone that is not in love with them, and that happens ALL THE TIME!
Ah...... no chance Howie, It might not be possible for human kind in general because they are not taught that it is possible. If you
don't believe you can accomplish something, you are right, you can't.
I can tell you right now it is possible to control your emotions even to a great degree, because I have learned how to do it. Once you know someone else can do that, you can also endeavor to find a way to also do that for yourself. It is just a matter of knowing it is possible, and then finding out how to do it. I did it, and I can tell you it is possible.
I don't think you can CONTROL love much less whom you love. I know that genetically that I am pre-engineered to love my kids. There is nothing they do to make me love them.
You can't MAKE anyone love you. How could you MAKE yourself love someone. I think people can MAKE themselves stay in a shitty relationship. BUt that's not love. THey might do it out of love of other people. Wife X stays with Husband Y for the sake of the kids. She USED to love him. Now she doesn't.
I love my wife but I had no control over that. It's just whom she was that attracted me too her. That and I like big boobs! HAHAHAHAHAHA But seriously. I just fell in love with her. I didn't make a conscious effort to love her. It just happened.
I'd be interested to see picky's argument to the contrary.
Me too. I don't think evidence could be had to prove that. How could science come to the conclusion that a emotion could be forced upon yourself as complicated as love. How could you measure that?
DBM, while I won't argue that point, the "experts" would say differently. While we can hide, mask or ignore feelings, (which WOULD be "controlling" them) this is one that most traditional wisdom would say can't be completely controlled, as in avoided or made to go away completely. Just like I do everything possible to avoid, ignore or make go away the pain from losing both my parents, but I still hurt badly every time I think about it. I "keep it under control" but it's not gone.
Love for a woman/partner is completely different than love of a child. I have both.
Our kids are part of us. It is built in (unless you are a psycho...and there are a lot of those). Almost more of a protective kind of love. Yet the strongest kind at the same time. I adore my girls with everything I have, and at the same time would do anything I had to to protect them.
With my wife, it is more of a sensual/connect with me kind of love. We are best friends. We get everything about each other. And we are one of very few fortunate couples anymore who LOVE everything about each other. And the intimacy is very strong. VERY strong :)
Did I have any control over whether or not I fell in love with her? Absolutely not. Even if I put up walls, held her at arms length, and maybe even tried to push her away due to whatever in the world might make me think I needed to do that (I would be a sad, warped person if that were the case, btw), I would still have those feelings. Yes, I would eventually get over her.
But the bigger question is....why in the world would I do that?
DreamTheaterRules — Sep 25, 2012DBM, while I won't argue that point, the "experts" would say differently. While we can hide, mask or ignore feelings, (which WOULD be "controlling" them) this is one that most traditional wisdom would say can't be completely controlled, as in avoided or made to go away completely. Just like I do everything possible to avoid, ignore or make go away the pain from losing both my parents, but I still hurt badly every time I think about it. I "keep it under control" but it's not gone.
Once you understand that love is a mammal reproductive strategy controlled by nature and a big part of the nature of mammals, it is a lot easier to control your feelings than you would think.
And Howie a better way to say control your feelings is "steer your consciousness away from them" Of course they come back, but once you are adept, they fade away like a fog you once saw, and then dissipated. It is easy I do it all of the time. I wrestle with my mortality on a daily basis amigo, and if you want emotions, just have a life threatening situation happen in your life. And you get them big time. When your life looks like it is ending it is scary and it is depressing, that has happened 2x to me in this 60-70 year old decade. I know from experience what I am talking about.
But again I meditate daily for one reason; to have greater control over my own awareness. Once I made that distinction, and put out the effort, the result was and still is, a much greater control over my awareness, which includes a greater control over my emotive function. I have a huge motivation to have a greater control over my own consciousness than I did when I was younger, so it may also be partly a function of aging. I will be 70 in a few weeks.
I was very much in love with my first wife, and when we split up, it was very difficult but through force of will I was able to overcome my feelings of loss in a short time and in that experience I learned how to have a greater control over my emotions. At the time I was 35 or 36 years old.
Having more control over all of my consciousness is my greatest motivation in my life right now, and once I put my mind, my will power, and my intent, and my relentless effort to it. I have some of the results that I wanted. It comes on slowly, after a great amount of effort and failing over and over again, I attack my inner mental noise with inner silence practice, I do that very single day for an hour and if I achieve 10 seconds of inner silence I feel like I succeeded. And every second of silence I achieve over the years goes into a bank account of sorts, and it accrues and from that comes a personal power over myself that I never had before.
Now again I love my wife dearly, but of she wanted to dump me today, I would be over the whole thing in a week, and you can take that to the bank, and that check will not bounce I have the credit in that bank.... I guarantee it.....
One more thing I am not religious in any way, I do not do this to get closer to God, that is for those who have a personal relationship to God. I have none. One time long ago I heard that there was a Hindu philosophical thought, that there were two ways to go to God, one was the personal relationship with God such as you see in the religions, and another way was through an impersonal relationship, with this choice you are all alone in a universe that flows with energy, an energy that has filaments leading to all of us, it is huge, sentient, it is impersonal, it gives nothing but life and collects your awareness at death for it's own calculations, whatever that may be for. I jumped on the impersonal like a hungry cat jumps on a mouse. This impersonal way is scary and you have no humans to lead you onward. You have to make it up as you go although there are sign posts along the way laid down by others who chose that path. So I don't love God I don't fear the devil. I know the real truth, that the creator
in this solar system is that big ball of light up in the sky that you can see anytime during the daylight hours. That truth is a scientific fact, a fact for every living creature on this planet, including the planet. The sun is our creator, no organized religion wants you to know that, but thank goodness for science,
it is a FACT not a belief. What is beyond that is beyond the 5 senses, so I have endeavored to add a few more senses with inner silence practice. And who is to say that the Sun is not sentient? I know the Earth itself is sentient! Why not the sun?
Johnny — Oct 18, 2012
But the bigger question is....why in the world would I do that?
No need to go that way. Love is not a bad thing, it is however controllable, which is my argument. If you have control over your own feelings, you are more in control over your own life. Once you are in greater control, you can choose to love all you like, but of it goes sour somehow, you are in luck if you have greater control over yourself.
See the key thing here, is not to exclude love from your life, love is a part of human nature, but if somehow it does go sour, to have the tools to mute the pain is big bonus.
My argument is not against loving spouses and children, I am simply saying that if you so choose, you can find ways to control your reaction to events outside yourself.
Horse shit DBM.
The thing is, we are talking about controlling the emotion, love. Why would 50% of marriage fail if 2 people who loved each other enough to get married ... why would one of those people just turn it off and get a divorce all the sudden? Why would a man turn love off like a light switch, go fuck another woman, and risk losing everything he has if love were controllable? Why chose to put yourself through that? Why not just keep the switch on?
Now, if love is controllable, how come it would take a week to get over it? Whats to get over? Just turn the switch off dude.
Hookbender — Oct 19, 2012Horse shit DBM.
The thing is, we are talking about controlling the emotion, love. Why would 50% of marriage fail if 2 people who loved each other enough to get married ... why would one of those people just turn it off and get a divorce all the sudden? Why would a man turn love off like a light switch, go fuck another woman, and risk losing everything he has if love were controllable? Why chose to put yourself through that? Why not just keep the switch on?
Now, if love is controllable, how come it would take a week to get over it? Whats to get over? Just turn the switch off dude.
For you because you don't believe it is possible, you are absolutely correct, there is no way for you to achieve a thing if you don't believe it is possible.
Emotions are not like a switch you can turn on and off, you can however steer your awareness away from them by using parts of your cognitive function gathered over years of self discipline and with your brain you can reason yourself out of any situation, especially if you have practiced a thing.
Human beings have resources that are incredible if they perceive a thing as possible and set out to find a way to achieve it.
Now I understand that you are going through some troubled times, and I understand exactly what it feels like, but in my case I raised my boys, so getting the love monkey off my back for that woman was a lot easier in my case than it is for you to do the same, because your girls are with her. I actually feel for your situation because we have known each other for years on the web.
Emotive control is just like your guitar skills, or any other skill that you have mastered. You learn how, and then you practice relentlessly. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Almost everyone on this thread thinks it is not possible but I can tell you for a FACT that it is possible because I have learned how to do exactly that over my long lifetime.
I am a master mason by trade, and I learned that skill because I was taught by masters of the craft who were friends of my father as well as my father. However all of the teachings would have been for naught, if I did not first think I could master it, and then secondly set out to master it by learning the techniques and then TRYING........
Now after mastering my trade, and mastering my musical skills, starting out singing baritone in a do wop group at first then taking up guitar, and mastering other disciplines that I have practiced all of my lifetime I can say for a fact that emotive control is possible, it may take a week or a month but it can be done, because I do it all of the time. If you think you feel bad now Hook, just wait until your own life is near over or seems like it is near over, then you will feel a depression that you never had experienced before. Then you will know what I am talking about. Until then just take my word for it, I have nearly mastered my feelings. It ain't easy and takes a lifetime of practice, but it is doable (for those who think it is possible and somehow learn the way to do it BY TRYING).
Here is a clue, society in general, the churches, the schools, and the modality of the times have shortchanged every single human being on this planet by limiting the possibilities of others to their own experience, and then passing that limited view down to the offspring. Most folks never learned it is possible, so automatically most folks think they are simple slaves to their own feelings, and I am simply trying to let y'all know there are other ways to view this phenomenon.
If folks want to be slaves to your lower selves, please have at it. I prefer to control my own awareness as much as I can so I practice self discipline, and with that practice comes success.
No disrespect intended with my post, DBM. :)
I just don't see that as a possibility. I do think some emotions are controllable, such as anger, for example. But love, controlling who you fall in love with, I don't know man.
The first time I ever fell in love was with a girl I only knew 5 days and we wrote each other for a year, steady. Then is started to go away slowly. If love were controllable, why would I chose to suffer for a whole year of no seeing her before I turned the switch off? And don't give me that shit about it would just take you a week or so to get over your lost wife. If thats the case, you don't love her, with all due respect. :)
I'm over my wife 100%, because she's a cheatin whore who doesn't put her children first, but I'm not over being angry as hell because she hurt our children. Why would sane human beings chose to suffer from anger, hurt, etc. rather than just kill the engine?
Their are tons of people who fall in love at first sight. Why would they chose to do that before even getting to know that person?
Love is anything but controllable. If we could control love as you suggest, we wouldn't come close to a 50% divorce rate.
And maybe you could get over a loss in a week, but it still took a week. A week of suffering. Why would you chose to suffer at all? For other people, that same loss may take a year. Why would they chose to suffer that long?
Your method may work for you to get over that loss in a week and it may take another person 2 years to get over it doing exactly you did. You getting over a loss in a week doesn't demonstrate any control, it poses questions from the observer only. Such as, did you really love the person you lost? Did your method shourten your suffering or are you just able to emotionally disconnect quicker than most? How dramatic was the loss? My love was stopped by betrayal to me and my children. I had no control over it. If I did I would turn my love switch back on when she ask me to come back, I would have, and be with my children right now.
Why would a woman chose to stop loving her husband and decide to fall in love with the married man down the road who has children as well as her? Why would someone put themselves through that? Intentionally?
As I said, complete rubbish. Some emotions may be controllable to a extent, but not love my friend.
falling in love with someone is the acquisition of an emotion, not the expression of an emotion.
- we can have total control over the expression of our emotions.
some people have more ability here than others, but we certainly do have the power to decide whether to act and how.
- we cannot control the acquisition of emotions.
they are the basic, raw subconscious responses to the random events that make up daily life - no way to predict or retroactively change them.
I can no more stop myself from feeling "falling in love" than I can stop myself from feeling "hand on fire".
I can, however, choose how I will express myself, or act, in response to the emotions (eg: marriage, run for the hills, OMGOMGHANDONFIRE, etc.).
Thats cute. Who care how people express love. The question is, can you control falling in love?
"we cannot control the acquisition of emotions".
that meant my answer to your question was "no".
the consideration of expression and suppression was an explanation of my reasoning and I will attempt that, again.
I cannot be said to control an emotion I don't have.
or, restated, it's trivial and inconsequential to claim control over an emotion before I have it (i.e. not falling in love with the millions of women I have never met)
in order to control the feeling of falling in love, I must first have that feeling. otherwise, I'm claiming control over a null set.
so, when I think I'm controlling the feeling of falling in love I'm actually controlling whether I will express or suppress a feeling that I already have - I've already "fallen in love".
summary: the feeling can be controlled once it's felt but having the feeling in the first place cannot. thus, one cannot control falling in love but one can control whether to acknowledge it, act on it, suppress it etc. as these are possibilities after falling in love.
example: I'm feeling that posting in this topic was a waste of my time. if I had not posted at all, I wouldn't have the same feeling about this topic that I do now - I fell for it. I can't change that but I can choose how I will (or will not) express myself - I have control over my posts (expression/suppression). however, in so doing, I am not controlling "falling for it" as that has already happened.
But posting in this thread, or not posting, is controlling your actions.
I never thought about it that way. That makes sense. How could one possibly control falling in love, if their is no love felt? Pretty good stuff there.
I have also read this side of the argument. The feeling of falling in love is more infatuation than love. Love is achieved over time. Love is shown over time and it takes time to love someone. That great feeling you get and the desire to spend all your time with the person is infatuation. I don't buy that. Your thoughts on that??
I was only considering it from the angle where love is subject to logic.
granted, this is a ridiculously narrow angle! heh.
I think it's probably correct that infatuation and falling in love are one and the same, though.
the distinction comes when there is subsequent evidence.
if she doesn't like me, it was infatuation.
if she does like me, it's falling in love.
if it was a one night stand and I want to keep it that way - infatuation.
one night... and I want to see her again - falling in love.
when it works out, it was falling in love. when it fails, it was just infatuation.
being in love is entirely different, in my opinion.
being in love is rational - falling in love is irrational.
Hookbender — Oct 20, 2012And don't give me that shit about it would just take you a week or so to get over your lost wife. If thats the case, you don't love her, with all due respect. :)
Ah here is the trick, of course there would be initial shock, then of course the emotions of anger and hurt at her loss, but I am a man who has a knowledge (learned over a lifetime of effort), that gives me the ability to mitigate my feelings at will. It is not magical, it is not even attainable unless you have the desire (which I got from the experience of loss of my first marriage) but once the desire to accomplish it came to me, (because I never again wanted to go through that pain for as long as it took to get over it, again) I set out to figure out a way how to do it. and then after long years of trial and error and failure, I began to realize how to do it.
The problem with it is; I can tell everyone how to do it but no one would understand the techniques unless they tread the same life path as I did. You see once you go into something so nebulous as controlling yourself, it becomes personal and no one could possibly understand it unless they took the same steps to accomplish it as I did. I studied philosophies from different cultures along with some lessons from a Hindu master I ran across 40 years ago, I began to understand the path to controlling myself, I learned that the emotions are on an animal level, in other words they are part of the lower parts of my consciousness, and a higher part was mind, and with the mind once I wrestled my inner noise to a more silent contemplative level, the answers just came to me.
The consciousness of humanity is a wonderful thing because it is so manipulative. Either by your evolving cognitive process or by your animal instincts or by events or awareness's outside yourself. Once you understand the possibility of actually taking control over yourself, and then trying to so so by finding out the way somehow through reading, study, or some master, then beginning the long arduous process of accomplishment, life becomes a joy instead of a task.......
You see I can tell from the posts above that everyone expects it to be instantly accomplish-able. That ain't gonna happen for anyone. Self knowledge and personal power come from impeccable effort, long sustained effort, with many failures along the way.
I understand how falling in love can be uncontrollable to those who have not tried to master themselves (the young) Of course you, nor I, had no choice when we were young, and dumb, and full of reproductive urges. But I am not young any more in fact I am one of the elders who has supposedly gathered wisdom throughout my years. I have always endeavored to become a wise man. And I have succeeded slightly in that regard. So now that I am no longer young and dumb I can "see" much more clearly.
Do you know what clairvoyance means in English, it means clear vision. To me that means "seeing" into things. I have endeavored all of my life to do exactly that. And I have succeed to some degree in that endeavor. Now that does not mean I am some sort of psychic, I am not, and I don't believe there are any that you would know of, because a true "seer" cannot tell in words what is going on outside oneself, so the psychics you see on TV are more or less partially aware of the things they talk about and trying to capitalize on it with business intentions, in other words charlatans.
In my experience there is only one endeavor worth attempting in earnest, and that endeavor is mastering my awareness to a greater degree through educated self discipline. Of course as parents, we have to work for money, and we have to see to the well being of our children. But when we have a spare moment for me there should be some discipline in my life for the betterment of my consciousness.
So I do agree there is no fast way to accomplish what I say above in all of my arguments in this thread. But for me after a lifetime of effort, I can do what I say I can do. But it is a constant battle for me to keep aware of it.
The fact that I love my wife and could get over it in a week is because I have accomplished something that very few others have attempted. I can "steer my consciousness away from my emotions at will", and that may take an hour, a day, a week or a months, but after it is accomplished I am free of the pain of loss. I did not gain this ability because I am superior to other humans or by some magic, I gained it because I believed I could do it, and then through techniques anyone can learn if they wish to, I worked on it, using my "mind over myself" ability (which we all have access to if we wish it)
There are several choices in life that occurred to me when I was in my 30's and even before. I could let Nature control me, or I could endeavor to take more control over myself. I cannot cancel nature from being in me, but I can endeavor to choose how I react to it. And emotional pain is one thing I wanted to conquer. And I found out how. Now again, I could not accomplish this without a lifetime of effort, and I would advise you to take this awful set of events in your life and become a master of yourself instead of a victim of your circumstances. You can choose; Is it something that defeats you? Or is it something you can overcome slowly and with great effort, to make yourself into a man of knowledge, a master over himself. A man who has won a great battle with his inner self. You can still love your babies and try and make life better for them, and take the bad shit that was handed to you and grow strong from it. It is your choice.
I don't see how logic would apply in any way. How could falling in love be subject of logic? Falling in love is kinda like being superstitious, in a way.
I've never fell in love with someone I attempted to fall in love with. The proof is my sorry ex wife. I never would have chosen to fall in love with her. Even when we first met or any time prior to her fucking this guy.
Well hook, no matter what we disagree/agree on, I hope you recover well from the misfortune you have encountered with that woman. I wish you the best of course.
I wish you well also!!!! And thanks! :)
+1's to everything said here!
ironsheep — Oct 20, 2012falling in love with someone is the acquisition of an emotion, not the expression of an emotion.
- we can have total control over the expression of our emotions.
some people have more ability here than others, but we certainly do have the power to decide whether to act and how.
- we cannot control the acquisition of emotions.
they are the basic, raw subconscious responses to the random events that make up daily life - no way to predict or retroactively change them.
I can no more stop myself from feeling "falling in love" than I can stop myself from feeling "hand on fire".
I can, however, choose how I will express myself, or act, in response to the emotions (eg: marriage, run for the hills, OMGOMGHANDONFIRE, etc.).
Y'all wanna believe that you are a victim of your emotions without any control. Please have at it.
I know that I am only a victim of what I don't overcome in the battle of my life. The battle with the most horrible enemy a man of knowledge can meet, himself and his ceaseless inner dialog. Of course that is my opinion and only relevant to me.
But I do know for a fact that I can control my reactions to events outside myself and the subject/object of my love is one of those events outside myself. I said above that I would be over it in a week if my wife dumped me for someone else or just to be out of our marriage, and my failure in that statement is; I did not specify what I would be over. What I would be over is the pain of parting with someone I love, and at the end of that week I would not be suffering from the pain that happens when parting from a loved one. I know I can do this because I have done it several times before in my life, first with my first wife, that was the hardest one, and secondly with a woman I lived with for several years between wives. I left her in Southern California (she had an apartment, and a good job (Nurse) so I did not just leave her flat) by the time I got to Flagstaff Az which is a 3/4 days drive from Cardiff By The Sea, I was over it. And I truly did love that woman.
But if y'all wanna believe that you are not capable of such an inner command, I respect your wishes as full grown adults and I bow to your wishes for yourselves...... (however I know better for myself)
You know I actually did love my first wife and many girlfriends or live in ladies before and after the first wife. But I don't love any of them now. Not because they are not worthy, but because I don't waste my precious energy on such things. A past love is simply that, a past love, once it is over, it is done and gone. It ain't no big thang amigo's. It is an easy battle to win (once you know how).
I don't think my comments conflict with yours, dbm.
honestly, your history is inspiring. I didn't get on the path the same way you did and am not as far along as you but I'm heading in the same direction.
my argument is that experiences give rise to emotions, which we are then able to control. I don't think there are any means by which a person can actively prevent an emotion from occurring, though.
once encountered, however, any emotion is subject to our will.
probably a matter of semantics. I think I am agreeing with you while you apparently don't. heh.
I don't how you think one could control something that simply doesn't exist. In fact, that goes for any emotion, really. If you cried, for example, the emotion is already felt, the crying is a physical reaction to a emotion. Some may have a slight control over your actions "after" you've fallen in love. I don't include stopping loving someone in a week, nor any say in who you fall in love with.
It took me a lifetime of effort and many years of it unsuccessful, But I kept trying to work it out so I would not have to feel the emotions that I did not enjoy. Like sadness, or fear, or anger. Now I can't say that I am perfect at it, but I can say I have more successful than failed attempts. Of course things get to me, but with my effort, I can most times work my way out of any of the above unpleasant emotions. And it does not take long for me these days. I am really not arguing about it so much as trying to say that is possible for anyone who thinks it can be done and then finds a way to do it. Most folks just think emotion is something you just have to put up with, and work your way through. I refused to accept the normal thoughts on this matter and endeavored to find a way to have a greater control over myself. Works for me anyways.
Just a friendly debate, no big thing really.
Not arguing. But I am interested. Can you point me to some suggested reading on this?
I actually think it is a big thing. Having control over your emotions can benefit every one. People's decision making process or out comes will be way better if emotions aren't guiding your decisions.
I don't quite get the victim thing. The loss of a loved one and feeling pain or hurt from that is very common and is expected. If it would take you a week to get over the loss of your wife, you're not absent those feelings yourself. I don't see why, if your in control of your emotions, you would chose to feel that pain for more than a day. Or, a few minutes at most. You must be using the word control loosely.
Some of the posts were so heavy (deep) they gave me a minor headache trying to comprehend them! :D
With that said, I'll add one simple oberservation about love, it sure keeps your ass distracted from playing the guitar as much as you'd like.
And I guess I agree, you can't really control FALLING into it, which sucks, becasue how many times have you heard a woman tell ya "I never meant to fall in love with you." WTF is that?!? It's proof: love, she has a mind of her own. ;)
Hook and D, let me sum it up for you...
DBM "has become, Comfortably Numb" (That will be $200 please) ;D ;D
Damn. Well, I don't feel like reading right now anyway. Checks in the mail DTR. And thanks. ;D ;D ;D
"And how does that make you feel?" LOL
(Or Frazier....) ;D "hello Roy. I'm listening."
DreamTheaterRules — Oct 24, 2012Hook and D, let me sum it up for you...
DBM "has become, Comfortably Numb" (That will be $200 please) ;D ;D
However comfortably in control of myself is more like it.
Kabala — Oct 24, 2012Some of the posts were so heavy (deep) they gave me a minor headache trying to comprehend them! :D
Some of those posts gave me a minor headache thinking them up....... ;D
Strange. I just got a case of mild gas. ;D
Without quoting sheep, I can say I absolutely agree with him... And to some degree with DBM. The whole Sun is the creator thing, My brain doesn't compute that, when I ask the question "who created the sun" you know? Some "supreme being" had influence over the beginning, much in the same way you can add numbers infinitely. Every "source" of life has a source. Every creator has a creator... Only through blind faith do I believe that "God" is the beginning can I answer those questions...
And now I will stop hijacking the thread and get back on topic.
I know we all call it "love" but what is it really? IMO it is a culmination of many emotions and stages of relationships. For most it starts with a physical attraction. And you DO control that. You are surely not genetically pre disposed to only like big boobs. You like what you like. For some, that's dark haired dark eyed ladies with meat on their bones and huge boobies. For others, that's skimpy bikini girls with blond hair and blue eyes.
We each have a preference in a potential mating partner.
Over the courting of a potential mating partner your relationship will develop into a fondness, a friendship. For some, this is the pinnacle of their concept of love, and where they decide to get married. Pretty dumb... She's (he's) hot (to me) and I enjoy being around them a lot... We must be made for each other! Conventional wisdom proves that there is much more to a lasting relationship than physical attraction and fondness for each other.
I think it really boils down to what your personal belief system is with regard to the concept of love. If you believe that love is an emotion, then certainly it is easier to succumb to the idea that we have little control over it. Much in the same way that we get angry, scared, happy, sad, whatever... I don't subscribe to that train of thought. I believe that love is a concept, an institution. I believe that the concept of love is based on rooted feelings of attraction. So in many ways, because people can change over time, if any of the factors that created the attraction change, be it appearance, personality, or any other factor, then you can easily lose the bond that caused you to enter into the mental state of being in love with the other person in the first place.
Because I believe in the concept of love, more than the emotion of love, I believe that you can indeed control who you fall in love with. You never would have made yourself vulnerable to that other person at all if there wasn't an attraction of some sort to begin with. You may become friends, you may even have sex, but were you ever really in love? If any part of you says "why am I with this person" then probably not. She's pretty and the sex is great but every now and then she's mean as hell and I hate that... Yeah, that's not love. At least not per my standards.
If you write down everything that is important to you in a relationship, you can develop your own love checklist, so to speak. If there is anything you are willing to compromise on, then you either aren't in love, or you need to modify your expectations.
Ultimately I am a firm believer in the fact that you are absolutely in control of you... To say that you couldn't help it because of whatever the factor may be, is a sign of mental weakness. Nobody should be able to manipulate your physical or mental behavior, and if they do then I'm afraid for you...
Divebomb — Oct 31, 2012Without quoting sheep, I can say I absolutely agree with him... And to some degree with DBM. The whole Sun is the creator thing, My brain doesn't compute that, when I ask the question "who created the sun" you know? Some "supreme being" had influence over the beginning, much in the same way you can add numbers infinitely. Every "source" of life has a source. Every creator has a creator... Only through blind faith do I believe that "God" is the beginning can I answer those questions...
Who created God? If you can fathom that god just was....then isn't it possible that there was no creator and things just were. How do you know that any supreme being had control over the process? IF it's such a create job he did, then why is our galaxy on a collision course with the Andromeda galaxy? Some grand design. Haven't you merely answered a question with an answer that appeases your brain but doesn't really pan out in reality? Thus you haven't really answered the question. You've thrown something in the blank to have an answer, even if it is the wrong answer.
Fenderbender — Oct 31, 2012 Who created God?
Bob did naturally. Don't tell me you don't believe in Bob too? ;)
Divebomb — Oct 31, 2012Without quoting sheep, I can say I absolutely agree with him... And to some degree with DBM. The whole Sun is the creator thing, My brain doesn't compute that, when I ask the question "who created the sun" you know? Some "supreme being" had influence over the beginning, much in the same way you can add numbers infinitely. Every "source" of life has a source. Every creator has a creator... Only through blind faith do I believe that "God" is the beginning can I answer those questions...
And now I will stop hijacking the thread and get back on topic.
I know we all call it "love" but what is it really? IMO it is a culmination of many emotions and stages of relationships. For most it starts with a physical attraction. And you DO control that. You are surely not genetically pre disposed to only like big boobs. You like what you like. For some, that's dark haired dark eyed ladies with meat on their bones and huge boobies. For others, that's skimpy bikini girls with blond hair and blue eyes.
We each have a preference in a potential mating partner.
Over the courting of a potential mating partner your relationship will develop into a fondness, a friendship. For some, this is the pinnacle of their concept of love, and where they decide to get married. Pretty dumb... She's (he's) hot (to me) and I enjoy being around them a lot... We must be made for each other! Conventional wisdom proves that there is much more to a lasting relationship than physical attraction and fondness for each other.
I think it really boils down to what your personal belief system is with regard to the concept of love. If you believe that love is an emotion, then certainly it is easier to succumb to the idea that we have little control over it. Much in the same way that we get angry, scared, happy, sad, whatever... I don't subscribe to that train of thought. I believe that love is a concept, an institution. I believe that the concept of love is based on rooted feelings of attraction. So in many ways, because people can change over time, if any of the factors that created the attraction change, be it appearance, personality, or any other factor, then you can easily lose the bond that caused you to enter into the mental state of being in love with the other person in the first place.
Because I believe in the concept of love, more than the emotion of love, I believe that you can indeed control who you fall in love with. You never would have made yourself vulnerable to that other person at all if there wasn't an attraction of some sort to begin with. You may become friends, you may even have sex, but were you ever really in love? If any part of you says "why am I with this person" then probably not. She's pretty and the sex is great but every now and then she's mean as hell and I hate that... Yeah, that's not love. At least not per my standards.
If you write down everything that is important to you in a relationship, you can develop your own love checklist, so to speak. If there is anything you are willing to compromise on, then you either aren't in love, or you need to modify your expectations.
Ultimately I am a firm believer in the fact that you are absolutely in control of you... To say that you couldn't help it because of whatever the factor may be, is a sign of mental weakness. Nobody should be able to manipulate your physical or mental behavior, and if they do then I'm afraid for you...
Well, a few things here. First, love isn't a concept, it's an emotion. It is what it is. I think your defining the traits you would like to have in a partner. That isn't love. It's desires, maybe. Love isn't an institution, marriage is, again, that usually comes after love.
A checklist to decide if a person is qualified or good enough for you to decide to fall in love with, that person? Are you serious? A checklist. ;D So, you meet a girl and she's attractive. So, you pull out your checklist and start tallying up how many items on your list she satisfies? ;D Come on man. Get real.
It's not mental weakness. Are you a robot? ;D Don't be afraid for me, that would piss me off. ;D
I'll never forget ole Kev getting pissed as hell because, I think it may have been Stratman, said he was gonna pray for him. ;D ;D
Fenderbender — Oct 31, 2012[quote author=Divebomb Dave link=1347929277/25#44 date=1351656516]Without quoting sheep, I can say I absolutely agree with him... And to some degree with DBM. The whole Sun is the creator thing, My brain doesn't compute that, when I ask the question "who created the sun" you know? Some "supreme being" had influence over the beginning, much in the same way you can add numbers infinitely. Every "source" of life has a source. Every creator has a creator... Only through blind faith do I believe that "God" is the beginning can I answer those questions...
Who created God? If you can fathom that god just was....then isn't it possible that there was no creator and things just were. How do you know that any supreme being had control over the process? IF it's such a create job he did, then why is our galaxy on a collision course with the Andromeda galaxy? Some grand design. Haven't you merely answered a question with an answer that appeases your brain but doesn't really pan out in reality? Thus you haven't really answered the question. You've thrown something in the blank to have an answer, even if it is the wrong answer.
And I have gas a lot. If I were created in Gods image, I guess my inards would be close to the same as his and he'd have gas too, right? By the way, certain foods cause gas. So, God would be the foods and gas would be what food created. ;D ;D
I just don't need to drink anymore I guess. Well, smoke anymore to be truthful. That's just ridiculous. ;D ;D
You say love is an emotion... How so? Marriage is an institution, entered into by people who are in love. Satisfy pre-requisites to enter into a state of being in love prior to entering into a state of being married. To suggest that love is anything other than an institution is somewhat short sighted. Do you really believe that you just fall in live with just anyone? That is crazy to me. I'm not goin to fall in love with just anyone because I am not physically attracted to just anyone. I consider that a requisite factor for me to even begin exploring my "checklist.' If you're willing to open the door to your heart to anyone who comes knocking, I call that desperate. I think any man with standards has a checklist. Is she pretty. Does her breath stink. Does she satisfy my sexual desires. Does she entertain me. Can we be friends? Does she complain about the things I enjoy or vice versa. Does she like pets. Can I live with her? Can she live with me?
I know damn well I'm not the only person that asks myself all these questions. And I know damn well I'm not the only man on the planet that won't even entertain the idea of "love" with someone I'm not attracted to.
It doesn't make me a robot. It makes me brutally honest. I'm not gonna talk to a mean ugly woman. I choose who I love.