12 posts
OK, my cover band has been having some major shit storms lately. We recently got rid of a dysfunctional singer and replaced him with a guy who is not only a 100X better frontman and singer, but just an all around more down to earth, stable dude. Yall should hear this guy sing "Second Chance" (Shinedown), he is really good.
We have revamped our set, well, still in the process. Dropping all of our Godsmack, SOAD, etc... in favor of tunes like "Brick House" and "Play That Funky Music", etc... I am really diggin the change, a lot more than I thought I would. I actually think my favorite songs to play are the two I mentioned above along with "Santeria" and "All Summer Long" (Kid Rock is a dufus, I know, but the song goes over really well live).
First, our old singer and his "fanclub" have been doing everything they can to trash us around town. When I gave him the news that he was no longer going to be part of the band (a band he and our other guitar player started) he was really cool, mature and professional about it with me. But then he called other band members making threats and all sorts of just uncool behavior. The week we fired him I had to stop him from kicking his girlfriend's ass at a gig. i am pretty sure he is juicing and the Roids have him even more mentally unbablanced than before. SO he is gone, but he is sorta lingering in the background.
The new singer is working out fine except that he is miffed over the constant drama that seems to be circling around this band. I am pretty good at staying above it, I find it pretty distasteful myself but I figure it is a necssary evil at times so I deal with it. It seems everyone always comes to me when they have a problem in the band and I have gotten pretty good at putting out the little fires that pop up. My only concern is that we stay working, I don't care who feels what or whatever.
But the new singer and my other guitar player are at odds. From day one he told me that he does not really like the other guitar players tone, his rig seems always to be dialed in for extreme heavyness. When we are playing a song like "Paralyzer" (Finger11) he just really makes a lot of background noise. I have had issues with it since I joined the band a year ago and have tried to get him to mellow out his sound. Personally, I am ready to give up extreme gain sounds for good anyhow and go for some more "traditional" guitar sounds, but then we would REALLY be at odds tonewise.
Beyond that, the singer and guitar player are having major personality conflicts. Guitar player is a control freak type, which has served us well, he manages the PA, hauls the trailer, is the first one at gigs for load in, etc... But, he is also the one who is always annoyed by someone in the band. One thing it has taken me a year to realize but that has finally become very clear, whenever he drama machine starts rolling, it usually begins with a call from him.
So here is my issue. Between the fact that we have a singer who has real talent both as a vocalist and front guy that I do NOT want to lose, and the fact that other guitar players style, chops and tone are starting to really fall out of line with our new direction (moving from being a super heavy cover band to a dance firendly party band) and that he seems to thrive on drama, not to mention the fact that I play and sound much better without another guitarist cluttering the mix, it may be time for a decision to be made.
The fucked up part is, he started this band. He has really worked hard for two years to promote our success, and I know him well enough to know that if it came down to letting him go, it would pretty much crush his world and I would lose a friendship that I have been building for years. The guy really does have the best interest of the band in mind, it is jsut that his idea of what is in our best interest and mine ar starting to really be at odds. I honestly am starting to feel that he is the last reamaining obstacle to our continued success and our movement into the next echelon of higher paying gigs, but I don't really feel he deserves to be shit on in order for us to get there.
But it is starting to feel inevitable, a change will need to be made.
Oh yeah, the singer is very important to my financial well being because he and I are about to start booking acustic duo shows during the week.
You say the old singer and the other guitarist started the band, so by firing them both and changing the musical direction of the band it sounds more like you have started a new band.
Might be too late now - but maybe that is the way to play it.
Find a Hollywood studio to make your band a reality TV series, make some money off of the tools, then tell them to fuck off and start your own band with the money. ;)
Let the trouble maker go, there are many guitarist looking for gigs. Keep this in mind though, you spend much time with band members. There will always probably be some kind of shit going on of some sort. So is his trouble serious, or just a simple headache?
Headache, keep him. Serious, let him go and move on. Who cares who started the band? It only matters that the band continues.
Would a strong talk do any good, with all the band members present? Sometimes airing things out, a good calm argument between you all, lets out some steam so you can move on. Maybe a meeting to discuss the band once a month and lay down problems and talk about whats going right may cut down on the bullshit.
Hope things work out!!!
From the pics I've seen and the stuff I've read from you, you seem like the kind of person most folks don't want to piss off (yes....on the inside we know you are really a big teddy bear ;) Use your stature and straightforwardness and just let the other guitarist know that you would like for him to cut the drama BS. Nothing threatening-like....just strong. If that makes sense.
And if he does stay with you guys given the direction you are going, you are going to have to be the one to help work out his tone issues (being the other guitarist). This one you can initiate with some tact. Obviously you are dialing in tones that work for the songs. Try asking him if he would jam with just you, so that the two of you could work out the tones needed for the different songs. Dial in the tones you want, not what works with his tones (beforehand). Then spend a couple of hours going through the different tunes together.
If he is a decent guitarist, he should hear where his rig is too scooped, and/or heavy. If he doesn't, you can suggest adding mids and less gain.
If that doesn't work, then he just might not be the right guitarist for the new direction of the band.
And to let you know...musical differences and parting of ways does not always mean losing friends. The band I was in was an original band. Brad, our singer/songwriter HATED covers. But after time I talked him in to doing them so we could get the better gigs. Long story short....he ended up hating what the band was doing, and it became work to him (even though we WERE playing better gigs).
He finally threw the towel in, and dismantled the group. But he did it in a very tactful and honest way. Now he is back to writing and recording, and is happier than I've seen him in a very long time. I am now in an 80's cover band, and the gigs are pilling up. We are all happier because we are all now doing what we really want to do. And we are still great friends.
Moral....some band mixes aren't perfect for each other, no matter how good the friendships are. But if the communication is tactful and respectful, the friendships can be kept :)
Man does this sound familiar.
I have several options.
1. Take new singer and make new band. Simple. you like him....he likes you....it works.
2. Fire guitar player.....keep everyone else. this is the KISS method. Keep it simple stupid.
3. Give the guitar player the benefit of the doubt and have a very serious discussion about his sound. IF he won't jump on board or be flexable....fuck him.
From my band experience days I was the guy that would be like you and your guitar player rolled into one. I almost always had the most experience playing out. I always showed up first and I to a degree was a control freak. I was the one connected so all big deals ran through me as I was the one that supplied the knowledge of the big deals anyway.
i've been lucky to a degree. All other guitarist in my bands and I have been able to find a way to work. The last touring band I was in had a rhythm guy that wasn't a great guitar player. He was a bassist wanting to add strings! HAHAHA At any rate he and I could communicate in the harshest of terms and it was never a big deal. We could totally tell each other about playing that sucked, tone the sucked....and then we'd always find a way to correct the issues. Why? Because sucking is sucking....and we knew we weren't trying to tear the other apart....we wanted to represent the band the best way possible.
Honest critque is paramount....to me. Even the last little band I was in we could discuss the finer points of playing and sound and it was never personal. It's an issue of maturity. IS the guy mature enough to deal with having to rethink his ideas on tone? Can he find a way to get around the issues?
IF the dude is addicted to distortion and is hissy and making noises.....just have the fucker buy a noise gate if nothing else. That will chill your singer out a bit.
I'm like you....I always seemed to be the sounding board for everyone else in the band. Sometimes you have to play politics. "Listen, me and the guys were talking and your tone is horrible on this and that song....here's what I think you need to do...."
I really appreciate you guys reading and giving me some opinions. Johnny, I have quit/been fired/had people quit/had to fire people form bands in the past and I would say more than half the time in the end the friendship (if there was one) survives. This guy is a little different case. The only thing, outside his family and his day job that he has going for him in his life is this band and his original band. His original band is a mess, a bunch of really bad personality conflicts, but they have been together for at least 5 or so years. That is how I met him, they were one of the only original bands worth seeing in Jacksonville for a while.
One night a while back (early 08) I heard that they were doing covers and I went because I could not imagine his band playing covers. The first thing I was amazed by is that they had a lead guitar player (he has always been a strictly rhythm guy). I got all drunk and obnoxious and when he told me how much they were getting paid to play covers and when he showed me their gig schedule I, in my drunken state said "Dude, if you ever want to upgrade your lead guitar let me know, I can play all that shit in my sleep". Referring to the Dio, Scorpions, Godsmack, etc... that they were playing. A couple weeks later, I got the call. They were trippin cause I learned their set in a matter of days and it was awesome at first.
Since then, all the lineup changes, the reassesment of priorities, the more "this is a business" approach, etc... has sort of put me in a spot where I am making decisions. In all honesty, I just want to play guitar. But, if I stay out of the business end of things, they seem to get fucked up.
My point is this dude and me ended up getting real tight, both as friends and players. If we were going to play a bunch of Metallica, Godsmack, Avenged Sevenfold, ec... (stuff we were playing early on) then his sound would be perfect. I don't know if it is old age or what but I am just not into that shit anymore. First off, the better paying gigs are gotten by the more dance friendly bands. I am still sort of new to playing covers but what I have noticed is that in a lot of places, when you bust out a new Kings of Leon song, or Framing Hanley, or even Shinedown (still thought of as a local band here), folks go nuts. When we play songs like Simple Man (with me playing slide all the way through) the roof comes down.
Godsmack, SOAD, Breaking Benjamin, etc... mostly metalheads or drunk dudes moshing, not the crowd we are aiming for. Bust out a GA Satalites tune, asses and titties start moving. So we are catering to that crowd. I like the naked titties bouncing around and cunts grinding on my leg while I am playing. His idea is to "keep our identity" and play the songs "our way"... Imagine Godsmack playing "Play that Funky Music". The thing is, he has only ever played one genre of music, and he is VERY good at that. I am comfortable playing almost anything, especially if the check is good. So if we are playing a lot less aggressive music, like you said, I just want our tone to be appropriate. This isn't just me stuck in a narrow way of thinking, it is me realizing that sounding like you have a well of Triple Rectifiers pummeling the crowd while playing "All Summer Long" or "Rockstar" or "Brick house" just does not work.
The other issue that has popped up with him, I have been pushing for us to learn 5 to 10 songs a week. He just can't. On top of that, a lot of songs, he, in his own words, does not have the fingers for. I try to be encouraging and tell him "dude you only think you can't play it, practice it and you'll get it". These aren't Dream Theater songs. I feel bad because I know the guy honestly means well. I know he practices a lot more than I do, but he is a little too proud to accept "lessons" and he does not really know how to go about learning certain things. I do try to tactfully show him things. He does all the lead work on the song "Addicted" (Saving Abel) and we were rerecording his guitar tracks for that song on our demo and I had to very politley tell him that I did not want to record his parts until I could work with him on bending notes properly. I know it is jsut a cover band demo be the notes need to be in tune. So what happens is either he learns it wrong and argues with me because he learned it off a tab, and since the tab looked "official" to him it just must be right. I have had to sit with him and an iPod and say "look dude, I know what your tab says, but it is just wrong, PLEASE listen to the song. You would figure after the first few times he would learn not to count on tab to learn the songs. The other thing is he will just drop songs he doesn't like or want to learn. I have recently squashed that. It has bothered me until I could not take it. So now on a song he does not know, say "Santeria" (he wont learn it) he just walks off stage while we play it. I know it's a one guitar song but we could either just double it or make a 2 guitar arrangement that sounds good.
Also, I have ALWAYS hated playing in bands with other guitar players, for just these very reasons. But it seems I am cursed to always join bands that have oher guitar players and then for some reason I become good friends with them and it makes it difficult for me to get rid of them. I like a sparse mix, I like dynamics, I like breathing music, I like improvisation, I like adding a few new songs a week, I like a lot of things that are easy, second nature and fun to a decent band, but throw guitar #2 in the mix and these things become a pain.
I know i sounds like I hate the guy, but that is not it at all. HE doew not suck by any mens, he is a etter stage performer than I am in that he is very animated and engaged with the crowd. He once told me I got hired in the band to do all the intricate bullshit so he can showboat, and I am cool with that. If it were not for the fact that he has dedicated 2 years of his life to building this band, and that he and I have developed a friendship, I would have axed him long ago. I did talk to my bass player, who has played with me in 3 or 4 bands over the last 5 years or so (including my current improvisational instrumental group) , and asked him in hypothetical terms if the singer and other guitarist could not somehow be made to work together, how he would suggest we solve it. he gave me he answer I wanted, but he has all the same exact misgivings I do. Truthfully, I think it is written, it will happen, it is just a matter of when.
spaivxx,
some things never change.
great suggestions by all.
first of all, kudos to you for being the guy in the middle. I know its not fun, it shows your leadership qualities.
sounds like you value friendships. I would give the yoru guitar bud the beneift of the doubt and let him know that a few that the guys want to go in a new direction. does he want to play? if so, requries a sound change, if not than he can self nominate out.
The two things That I have learned in life (the hardway) are 1) pay fast (when you owe, pay up quickly) and 2) be straight with people. they may be pissed in short term, but they will respect you in the long run by treating them with respect.
good luck.
Hey spai, I had to chime in on this one. The way I usually do it is in this order....
1. Everybody HAS to get along with everybody. Can you imagine being stuck on a tour bus with an asshole, who is bitching, whining and crying all the time? No thanks Billie!
2. Of course, talent. Which comes second for me. I would much rather jam in a band with a really cool dude who can play pretty good than with a wizard who is a pompous asshole.
3. Drama, none taken...... END 'O' STORY! Let the bitches keep that shit.
4. Equipment, he better have something! I hate guys who are having to borrow shit just to be able to play out. If you're not serious about it, just say so! END 'O' STORY!
cgtrox 8-)
cgtrox I like your riteria. I have had to work around a lot of assholes for the sake of making a check though. But in this case it is a little different because he has been in the band longer than I have, a lot of folks look at it as though it is his band and we just play in it. Although, that has been the case less and less.
This morning I woke up and started browsing Craigslist for ads. I may just say fuck it and find or start a new band. The problem with that is that guitarists are a dime a dozen and opportunities for guitarists around here are slim. But i am looking. I know a few people who over the last year or so have been talking about getting something going. Would be nice if i could find a nice drama free situation where all anyone wanted to do was make good music and get paid. Is that so much to ask?
Fenderbender — Apr 06, 2009Man does this sound familiar.
I have several options.
1. Take new singer and make new band. Simple. you like him....he likes you....it works.
2. Fire guitar player.....keep everyone else. this is the KISS method. Keep it simple stupid.
3. Give the guitar player the benefit of the doubt and have a very serious discussion about his sound. IF he won't jump on board or be flexable....fuck him.
From my band experience days I was the guy that would be like you and your guitar player rolled into one. I almost always had the most experience playing out. I always showed up first and I to a degree was a control freak. I was the one connected so all big deals ran through me as I was the one that supplied the knowledge of the big deals anyway.
i've been lucky to a degree. All other guitarist in my bands and I have been able to find a way to work. The last touring band I was in had a rhythm guy that wasn't a great guitar player. He was a bassist wanting to add strings! HAHAHA At any rate he and I could communicate in the harshest of terms and it was never a big deal. We could totally tell each other about playing that sucked, tone the sucked....and then we'd always find a way to correct the issues. Why? Because sucking is sucking....and we knew we weren't trying to tear the other apart....we wanted to represent the band the best way possible.
Honest critque is paramount....to me. Even the last little band I was in we could discuss the finer points of playing and sound and it was never personal. It's an issue of maturity. IS the guy mature enough to deal with having to rethink his ideas on tone? Can he find a way to get around the issues?
IF the dude is addicted to distortion and is hissy and making noises.....just have the fucker buy a noise gate if nothing else. That will chill your singer out a bit.
I'm like you....I always seemed to be the sounding board for everyone else in the band. Sometimes you have to play politics. "Listen, me and the guys were talking and your tone is horrible on this and that song....here's what I think you need to do...."
Option 1 would be my advice as well. If you've canned everybody else, it's really a new band. So leave the old one and start a new one.
+1
If two guys started a band, one has already been canned and the other is on the cutting block, it's not THAT band anymore.
See if he's on board with the new direction, OR, IMHO move on and let the band he started do what they want. They will replace any other members who follow your direction, with (hopefully) like minded people, and both will be better for it.
As for you, do what makes you happy. If playing a "less preferred" kind of music pays better and that's what you want, then that's great. Just like, if the kind of stuff they wanted to play when they started the band pays less, but it's what makes them happy, then let them do that too. Just go your own way and let them go theirs.
Mr. Bigtime Band Man, over and out. ;)