The Watering Hole

General Discussion
23 posts
Although, as Hooky pointed out, if a website is up on the Internet then everyone can see it, I will only say that it doesn't matter much until people actually know it exists!

Anyway, I've still got a LOT of content to put up on our website, but the basics are getting there.

So what IS this venture that I've been working on for 2.5 months with my friend?  (Pay attention Hooky, this is what you've been wanting to hear for some reason!  ;) )

Well, it starts even before the company existed when I was helping my friend Ian prepare to start a new business (not knowing that I'd become his partner in the affair).  He used to be the head of Sales and Engineering for the entire West Coast for an international electronic drives and controls company.  During the economic downtrend, he was basically told he would have to move to Los Angeles to keep his position.  Instead he decided to start his own company (for all the reasons that you'd want plus the benefit of not having to move).  The company is called Energetic Drives and is primarily in the electronic controls industry, but concentrating on the so-called "Green" sector.  We have a few PhD's and senior level engineers on the staff as contractors in the areas of math, mechanical engineering and electrical engineering.  One of our selling points is that we are able to create custom solutions in addition to any "off the shelf" equipment that we need to provide.  Due to my friend's last position (plus 20 years in the industry as both an engineer and sales rep), he has many connections and extremely favorable margins for the expensive electronics we use.

Our focus is on electrical generation from alternative energies (wind, solar and tidal) as well as electrical reclamation.  I'm sure you've already heard about wind turbines, photo voltaic cells and maybe even tidal buoys, but probably not reclamation.  In a nut shell, electrical reclamation is a method of generating electricity during times when the potential would normally be lost (usually as heat).  One example you see every day now are hybrid cars (something we're not involved with).  Whenever a hybrid car brakes, it uses the energy generated to recharge its batteries.  In our case, you need to think bigger.  For example, when a crane is lowering a load, the braking action can be used to convert a lot of potential energy into kinetic energy which we can capture.  Another big sector we want to get into is reclamation of energy in elevators.  60% of the electricity consumed by an elevator can be reclaimed (even when going up!).

We're not about storing energy either (at least not yet), but what puts us ahead of most companies out there is our access to the latest cutting-edge technologies in drives, motors, relays, filters and grid-tie converters.  Our drives, motors and generators (all of which could be the same device for you tech-heads out there ;) ) are super-efficient permanent magnet AC or DC motors that  are fully programmable and variable speed.  Our grid-tie inverters are so clean that they exceed every IEEE standard for grid interactivity (meaning that utility companies love us).  The bottom line is that we provide energy outside the ranges of existing equipment AND can create more energy in the same ranges that they produce in.  Add that to the fact that we can create custom solutions and that is what makes us stand out against other companies.  Of course, the fact that we are restricting ourselves to the niche from 10 KW (kilowatts) to 1.2 MW (megawatts) means that we are perfectly positioned between the saturated low-stuff while avoiding conflicts with the relatively few power-houses that operate in the higher ranges (GE, Mitsubishi, Vestas, Enercon, etc.)

To give you an idea, here's our first project: We have been working with a couple of companies that buy used wind turbines from the farms down in California and refurbish them.  Needless to say, the technologies have grown considerably since they were first put up 20+ years ago so provide them with the opportunity to completely replace the electronic guts with our new systems.  These refurbished and improved turbines can now be sold much cheaper than a new turbine even though we can actually generate MORE energy than most of the new models of the same size.  Plus, there's up to a two year waiting list for a new turbine while we can have one up and running in about four months (or less!).  The sales approach is cake: Do you want a new turbine over a year from now for $3.5 million (the price for a 1 MW machine) or a refurbished one that is now just as good, but delivered in a fraction of the time for under $2 million?  The first turbine that we will be working on is a 330 KW mid-sized job that sells for a little over half-a-million.  The company that we're working with happens to have 80(!) of these 330 KW turbines ready to be worked on - not bad, eh?  That doesn't include the almost 120 others in various sizes up to 750 KW that they currently have.

So far, the only snag has been something that on the surface sounds like a good problem, but can cause headaches later.  Our first project consisted of two companies that had a joint venture together for two turbines (which have both already been sold).  Evidentally, the JV was never signed correctly and the one company wanted to get into the larger turbine market (while using us to present to investors).  The other company, the one who actually has the turbines and the facilities to work on them, wanted to stay the course and we were forced to choose (of course we went with the one who actually has the equipment).  The problem?  The other company, who is local to us, is realizing that they may now be out-to-lunch and was causing some issues that had to be resolved first (we believe everything's been sorted out between them now).  In any event, we're going forward.

I've known Ian for over six years now (we're both dart players - he represented Wales once before moving to America).  We get along just fine, but in business we're polar opposites.  He's the emotional, master sales type and I'm the level-headed, jack-of-all-trades geek type.  We're definitely like the "Odd Couple" (for those of you that remember the TV show).  I'm the anal-retentive, overly organized one and I'm pretty sure he uses the terrorist filing method (where you put everything into a pile and blow it up).  It's actually working out very well since he's strong in all the areas that I'm not (business and sales) and I've got the rest covered (project direction, math, information technology, artistic ability, etc.).  People get a laugh out of our contrasts because, on top of it all, I'm pretty tall and he's short. ;D

And now... Here's our new website: www.energeticdrives.com  I've designed almost everything that we've been using so far, business cards, stationary, banners, demo sheets, spreadsheets, project plans, agreements, etc.  My partner makes most of the PowerPoint presentations (and does the bulk of the presenting) plus we get some material from our suppliers.  This is my first real website so any feedback is appreciated!

Now you know.  :)
I must say, I'm impressed! And I thought it would be lacking because of the build up, ya fooled me Craiger.

I'm gonna check out your site now. Good luck to you, and your partner!! :)

Charger pulled your strings a little too, now. ;D
Website is very colorful....inviting and interesting. It could have been a very geeky boring type layout. I think you did a damn good job so far.

So, even though I messed with you a little, I'm very impressed with your venture. Well done, imo. ;)
Thanks!  :)
so you went Gay, i mean green!
Sounds cool.  Green tech is the best field to get into right now.  

Initial website thoughts:

One question... why not go with a CMS like Drupal for the site?  Hand-coding seems very 2004, and it's going to get tough updating news, links, styles, etc...

Also, ditch the "Website Help" page.  Anyone who needs that type of instruction doesn't deserve to be using a browser, and anyone remotely technical is going to scoff at that.  And make sure that wherever you use a graphic to put up a bunch of text, you also include that text in the alt text description, otherwise that stuff is invisible to search engines and people who use compensations for disabilities.  I realize it's a 0.x website and the whole thing will probably look completely different in a month or two... I'd strongly suggest a CMS right off the bat--it's just the way to go. Your ease of updates, overhauls, and initial build-out will be reduced by an order of magnitude, and the site will instantly look modern. If you want to hand-code, figure out some way to include RSS, ditch all of the text-graphics, specify a font-family in your CSS-- no one wants to look at 12 point Times New Roman on a website... Arial, Helvetic, sans-serif at a minimum.  Use a PNG for that main image, so you can reduce file size without making it look so compressed.  
Yes - I am impressed too,

I was going to suggest ditching the help page as well.

The website takes a  fairly friendly and informal approach to communication.
like it could be pitching to housewives choosing a plumber.

As  your customers are likely to be other businesses I would tighten up on the formality.
Get the info they want out there upfront.

I would add a pdf/powerpoint section so they can just grab the sales/technical stuff and go.

The initial sell to your prospective clients will often be made by one of their guys trawling around looking around for potential suppliers to solve their problems

So give this person the material so they can easily sell your wares to their decisiton makers This will help get you into pole position before they even contact you to get one of your people to make a pitch.

But still -  you did a good job on the website.


Thanks again for the comments.  The website was going to be an ASP.NET type but there were some stupid issues getting things to show (both in development and on the internet) and we had to get something up.

Unfortunately, until we get more money, I didn't have the tools to develop in anything above basic HTML (I'm using a free software package called Kompozer).  I also didn't know about Drupal (thanks Charger, I'll look into it!).

The website help page will be ditched for now.  One of the customer types that we are targeting right now are farmers wanting to put mid-sized turbines in their fields because they can.  That led to the more informal approach, but I'll think about how to tighten it up without losing them.  We may have to use both types of communications differing them depending on the area (informal for residential turbines and formal for industrial reclamation for example).  A major thing to remember is that the usual customer we've been working with isn't very computer savvy so we don't want things to get too complicated for them.

There should have been a font-family in the CSS already, I'll go look to see why it's not working correctly (and, yes, it will be Arial, Helvetic, Sans-serif - it's currently Tahoma).

We also will have sections for downloading PowerPoint and .pdf documents - I just haven't gotten that far yet.

Our actual goal will be to have some pimply-faced kid who knows all of this doing the work once we've gotten a few orders!  ;)

Oh, one last thing, the main graphic on the home page used to be a PNG, but that format is FAR larger than the medium-quality JPG that it is now.  The original PNG was 775K while the current JPG is under 70k...  Some of our customer don't get the best bandwidth so I tried to keep everything loading as fast as possible without getting rid of the images (which everyone here, including our partners, like).
charger — Oct 27, 2009...And make sure that wherever you use a graphic to put up a bunch of text, you also include that text in the alt text description, otherwise that stuff is invisible to search engines and people who use compensations for disabilities...  


I do use alt texts throughout, but didn't know I could put a LOT of text in that field.  I'll have to go back through and expand each...

P.S., The help page is gone and the style sheet's been fixed.  :)
That's really interesting.  

The website:  The problem with html only sites is that it is really difficult to get a nice modern look and feel to it.  I would say the way to go would be to create a .net web application so that all the content (text and images) is actually stored inside the back-end database, that could be sequel server or even simply an access database.  This makes it very easy to update content at any time without doing any redesign work, you simply revise the entries that are stored in the relevant fields in the back-end database.  The best way to do this is host the database yourself on your own server as it makes it so much easier to manage. I have a number of customers web applications that I created in delphi for .net that run directly from my server here. It's great doing it this way as it gives you total control....as long as you have enough bandwith to support the number of anticipated hits of course.

Excellent concept that could find you earning megabucks fairly quickly....as long as the orders come to fruition of course.  Always worth a try and you never know unless you give it a go!

By the way, if you needed a copy of .net authoring software, let me know  ;)
Thanks Jon, but I have Visual Studio 2008 Pro already.  I think I mentioned that the original route WAS to have a .net site, but I was having several problems that we just didn't have the time to fix right now.  One has to do with the fact that I updated from the trial version of VS 2008 which uses MS SQL Express.  All of the ASP.NET database connections apparently still refer to Express instead of MS SQL 2005 (that came with the purchased Pro version).  Also, there's something completely fucked up with my IIS and, after trying all of the suggestions I've seen in forums (MANY others seem to be having the same issues I was), I finally shelved the idea just to get something up.

FYI - Since I posted earlier, we've talked with our partner that has the turbines and we should have the first P.O. either later today or tomorrow.  Once we have the first one, a bunch of good things happen like being able to keep our extremely favorable buying margin, getting better credit terms and having some buyers who are waiting jump into the queue.  We should be more excited than we are, but we're just too tired at the moment!  :)
You might want to re-think ED as a short form cause in medical circles it stands (no pun intended) for something else!   ;D

Seriously, it's great to see companies do something useful for the environment.  Best of luck!

Cheers,

jayson
So what HAS Craig been up to for the last 75 days?



I hope you succeed mightily amigo. Get rich so you can hold the WateringHoleStock and pay everyones way out to what ever town it is you reside in.
jayson — Oct 28, 2009You might want to re-think ED as a short form cause in medical circles it stands (no pun intended) for something else!   ;D


There's a story behind why the company had to be called what it is (one that I won't be allowed to tell for awhile - no secret squirrel stuff, just a personal request from my business partner until certain events going on in his life finish).  Of course, I was quick to point out to him the same observation you had though!  ;)

Thanks all for the well wishes!  :)
The ED logo with the big windmill... makes one think of the medical condition, combined with futility...
So Craig

Where do you stand on Global Whining these days ? :)

fingers — Oct 28, 2009So Craig

Where do you stand on Global Whining these days ? :)


The same as before!  ;D


It's kind of funny, my Mom listens to Fox News all the time and last night I heard someone say that the "only clean energy is nuclear energy."  The first thoughts that came to mind were "spent fuel rods," "ocean dangers due to overheating," and "toxic clouds..."

Sounds clean, doesn't it?

I have to find the article again (I'm now on a bunch of industry-related mailing lists... ), but I just read about a new power plant that's being developed (in South America I believe) that uses solar reflectors to concentrate the sun onto a huge sodium-sulfer battery structure.  Sounds interesting!

I think once there are new types of storage devices available, then more people will turn to alternative energies (since, naturally, the biggest downfalls of wind and solar are that you aren't generating a level amount all the time).
I agree - storage technology is the key technology -
it's all about energy density.
but it doesn't get the same media attention.

as for Fox News - I think burning their bullshit is a cleaner and more abundant sournce of energy.
I love reading through 3 week old posts and adding my 2 cents long after the topic has died...

I haven't looked at the website. So no comments on that.

But... I do have to say that being involved in some capacity with nuclear power for quite a long time now while it does have some bad traits at the end of it's service life, it is a very clean source of energy while the rods are good.

Of course, the US Navy nuclear power program is probably the safest out there, and a lot of the reactor safeguard steps we take are probably not used in the civilian nuclear power programs. We remove rods from service after 25 years give or take, but realistically they could be used for a longer period of time. So if we are able to harness power in this way, and dispose of the rods in a way that is less harmful to the environment (shooting them into space on a rocket that will surpass all earth orbits and just keep it rollin out to wherever it ends up) I think it could be a viable option for "clean energy"

But it's certainly not cheap to maintain... That's for damn sure.
The thing with nuclear energy is that it uses high temperature phase change (as do most techniques except those utilizing refrigerants) that super-heat water well beyond it's boiling point (1,000+ degrees - possible when water is under pressure).  That super-heated water is then sent jetting through large turbines that spin, etc., etc.

One problem is in the cooling/condensing loop which returns the water to a much lower temperature before beginning the cycle again.  Most nuclear plants send it out into the ocean or another waterway which causes the entire area to heat up FAR above normal and that kills off most of the native sea life.

Another issue is the constant vigilance required to make sure levels stay under control (it was under a "routine maintenance test" that Chernobyl had it's failure - albeit due to being short-staffed).

Finally, nuke plants need to be held under high security.  You'll never hear how Al-Qaeda or Iran wants to get hold of or blow up a wind turbine...
You're right about the high security...

As far as the coolant loops go, the actual primary coolant loop is a closed loop system and that water at "super critical" heat is at high heat and pressure constantly. The temps in the primary loop drop somwhat in the condensers, enough to keep the reactor stable, but their still at extremely high temps. The problem is in the actual condensate loop where the water is brough in from the sea, sent to the condenser where it is flashed to steam under high pressure and used to spin turbine generators. The steam condensates back to water obviously and is pumped at high heat back to the sea. his process could thoretically be self contained in a "semi-closed" loop as well where the water inlet and discharge go into a common tank that has some type of refrigeration system to maintain a cool temperature.

This is far from efficient, but it keep contaminants from potentially entering the environment. And the amount of power generated by the plant would be far more than enough to power the refrigeration system used to keep the common secondary loop tank supplied with chilled water.

I haven't done enough research into commercial power plants to see if this method of secondary condensate water recirculation is being employed anywere, but it would work for inland based power plants.

I agree that we should not be discharging directly to sea. That's bad for the fishies.

It's a pretty controversial subject to begin with. Nobody will ever agree that nuclear power is the key to energy independance. I certainly like the idea of storing wind evergy a whole lot better.
Regardless, the biggest issue IMO is that no one has been budgeting to create new power plants from any of the alternative energy sources (including nuclear).  R&D money needs to be spent to improve all of the efficiencies involved.