31 posts
You may find this interesting....actually it pisses me off big time but interesting none the less.
I run my own small business and I save an amount of money each month to cover my annual tax bill and NI (national insurance) bill (both collected by the government).
Now say for example that at the end of this year my tax bill comes to £20,000. The government has this wonderful thing called "payment on account". So this means that when the date for last years tax bill is to be paid comes around I would pay £20,000 plus I then have to pay the first of two "payments on account" to cover what the government estimates I will earn for the next year based on my earnings this year. The "genius" way that calculate that is they simply say your tax bill next year is likely to be the same as this year, so we divide it by 2 so that you pay £10,000 on account in January and £10,000 on account in July which means that I actually have to pay £30,000 tax this year, but of course £10,000 of that relates to money that I haven't earned yet. Are you still following this...
So to simplify (I hope)
Tax bill for apr 2011 to apr 2012 = £20,000
payment on account for next year = £10,000
Total payment to be made Jan 2013 £30,000
additional payment on account to be made Jul 2013 £10,000
Plus of course there is the NI (national insurance) contributions to pay at 9% of income.
Why is this all so high, because the government takes my hard earned cash and gives it away to the lazy fuckers who won't work and to immigrants who come here for a free ride.
We're all being fucked over left right and centre. (English spelling of centre, about the only thing worth a chuckle here)
discuss...
Works about the same way here for people that make enough money on their own (income outside of a paycheck), except we have to estimate/pay quarterly (J/A/J/O) and settle up the prior year in April. Depending on the accuracy of the prior year's estimating, April can be ugly, pleasant or just usual.
Sucks, but it would suck more if I had to do the accounting every week and effectively self-withhold all year.
I think everyone in the United States should not file a tax return this year and demand that we have a say in the spending government does on useless bullshit and pat on the backs. When that's in check, we'll do it again in 2 years automatically. Every 2 years we rain in spending. The people. The government can't do it. So, we should.
Roy W. Hookbender for President!!!
Same over here. At a time when businesses are failing left right and centre and taxes are rising and prices are rising you would think that would be the governements priority. At the moment over here the government priority is trying to pass into law the right of homosexuals to get married in a church. The world has gone fucking crazy. Now I don't believe in god so church is neither here nor there for me but for fucks sake this is not the natural way of things and what a waste of time an effort when the government has much more important stuff to do.
Marriage is defny not natural...
Gosh Jon, this only hurts people who are actually trying to earn a living! ;) :D
LOL, Yeah, stop boring Craig with this "income tax" non-sense! HAHAHAHA
Jon, agree... the world is going nuts, and politicians are leading the parade.
not filing... yeah but you already pay them throughout the year, right? Withholding. They already have your money.
if you don't file, you'll just leave some marginal money on the table (your refund or whatever you might owe) and get the IRS on your ass for years to come.
if you want to reign-in spending as "the people", you have to convince "the people" to stop taking the money.
good luck convincing people to shun social security, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, unemployment, all services from HUD, the Dept of Ed, and on and on.
hell, I bet you'd have a hard time finding more than a couple well-off retirees that would even contemplate ripping up their social security checks.
ironsheep — Dec 12, 2012not filing... yeah but you already pay them throughout the year, right? Withholding. They already have your money.
if you don't file, you'll just leave some marginal money on the table (your refund or whatever you might owe) and get the IRS on your ass for years to come.
if you want to reign-in spending as "the people", you have to convince "the people" to stop taking the money.
good luck convincing people to shun social security, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, unemployment, all services from HUD, the Dept of Ed, and on and on.
hell, I bet you'd have a hard time finding more than a couple well-off retirees that would even contemplate ripping up their social security checks.
Social security is not part of the general tax fund. Social security is a trust fund paid for entirely separately from federal income tax. It's the one entitlement that's really not. Now, that doesn't mean that the government hasn't felt they had the right to borrow from that trust fund, thus requiring that it someday be paid back... but it's not the same pool of money at all.
Medicare and Medicaid are definitely an issue, and once you convince people that spending shitloads of money on the last year or two of their life, when they are really beyond "living" and should just take a bunch of morphine and get on with it, then you'll have something. The single biggest improvement I would make to our medical system would be to allow only care that will help and is relevant. But you will never convince people that this doesn't impinge on their "freedom" to get every medical test known to man.
Food stamps are irrelevant... they work out to $76 billion for 47 million people, or $31 a week, which is a tiny amount of money for food if you actually try to live on it (my family recently tried this, and I recommend everyone does, before they throw stones).
Compare that to $350 billion a year that our government loses through tax evasion... I know which one would have a greater impact if it was fixed.
right, but I wasn't intending a program critique... just a list of what came immediately to mind that people receive from the federal government directly. those are the only things they can refuse to take and thereby "reign-in" spending.
and, apologies... "rein in". heh.
It's pretty hard to imagine people who are actually are hard up enough to qualify, refusing to take food stamps... Social security is more likely. Should we just make it not an option? Say "you paid for this, but you have too much money, so you can't have it.'
for an individual to personally effect federal spending, the only option they have is to reject or decline direct federal spending on them. not filing an income tax return won't have much effect. that was my observation.
the examples I listed apparently obscured the message.
try it this way:
not filing... yeah but you already pay them throughout the year, right? Withholding. They already have your money.
if you don't file, you'll just leave some marginal money on the table (your refund or whatever you might owe) and get the IRS on your ass for years to come.
if you want to reign-in spending as "the people", you have to convince "the people" to stop taking the money.
good luck convincing people to do that.
charger — Dec 12, 2012It's pretty hard to imagine people who are actually are hard up enough to qualify, refusing to take food stamps...
Since this is probably directed at me...
I simply don't feel it's the government's job to be taking money from people who worked hard for it and giving it to people who won't get off their ass to work. Note that I don't have any problem if there's a good reason why they can't work, but I simply see too many that fall under that first condition. I've probably qualified for food stamps for several years, but I chose to stand by what I say instead of being a hypocrite. There are a lot of corporate and government reasons why all of my life savings were basically stolen (if I wasn't among the first, I could have gotten in on all the lawsuits). Take 2/3 of a million from me with one hand then give back $150 a month with the other? No thanks. I don't want to sell all of my stuff, but that's what I'm doing while doing side-jobs (until tech jobs that don't require 5-year experts in some narrow discipline with two years of current employment start coming back).
I WILL eventually get back all of the money I lost and more. Three years working at that alternative energy startup for squat was just an attempt that didn't work out (also mostly due to the government giving money to failing companies with connections like Nancy Pelosi's brother at the helm - we couldn't get funding and our customers have had all sorts of issues getting permits approved and funding promised to them). I've been working part-time at businesses owned by a couple of friends and I'm running into lots of places that have said I'm "over qualified" when I go out looking for jobs to hold me over (places like UPS Stores, Grocery Stores, etc.). Who cares if I'm "over qualified," I'd still like to pay rent and eat!
If you want to see what I'm doing now, check out
www.nwclips.com - I just started creating this a couple of weeks ago to sell products from my friend's auto body supply shop (where I created the inventory system and help with other various aspects). Google finally released it after 11 days so it would show up in search results on Monday and we had our first sale yesterday. The point is, I keep trying.
I know exactly where you're at Craig. It happened to me two years ago but in a different way when I was made redundant from the company that I had worked at for 20 years. The two directors took all the money out of the company and then called in the administrators and bankrupted the place and we all got fucked big time.
Fortunately I had taken the precaution to always have complete "personal" backups of all the company contacts and contracts and I really called in lots of favours from people I had known for years (clients that had become friends) to get my own thing up and running. Interestingly, after paying in huge amounts of tax and national insurance contributions over the years when I actually asked for some help from the social security they wouldn't give me any saying that because I was now self employed (even though no income at all for 6 months) that I was not unemployed, so fuck you Mr Gill.
I've spent the last two years building a business that relies on monthly subscriptions and for the last 6 months or so this has really turned the corner into a very healthy business but at the back of my mind there is always that nag that it could all so easily all go away tomorrow, but doing my own thing is the best thing ever, would never want to work for someone else ever again.
Keep at it Craig, as I know you will, I have failed in the past at countless business ideas but one day you just happen to be talking to the right person at the right time and boom, you're up and running again. There's a lot of luck needed, but the more effort you put in the luckier you get !
And it really does piss me off that the government here takes a huge slice of my hard earned money and gives it to some lazy fuckers who won't work. There is always a way to make some money here and there if you try and the government should provide help to those who try but it doesn't, just gives it all away to those who do nothing for it.
All the best.
edit: and by the way, if you are interested in finding monthly subscribers to my document hosting business I pay extremely good commission rates of 50% and that's ongoing monthly revenue. As a guide I have customers paying as little as £50 ($79) a month and some large corporates paying £1,000 ($1,580) a month. In these times of fibre broadband this is a business that truly is global.
If you are interested in this Craig, PM me !
CraigBert — Dec 12, 2012[quote author=charger link=1355255612/0#13 date=1355339587]It's pretty hard to imagine people who are actually are hard up enough to qualify, refusing to take food stamps...
Since this is probably directed at me...
I simply don't feel it's the government's job to be taking money from people who worked hard for it and giving it to people who won't get off their ass to work. Note that I don't have any problem if there's a good reason why they can't work, but I simply see too many that fall under that first condition. I've probably qualified for food stamps for several years, but I chose to stand by what I say instead of being a hypocrite. There are a lot of corporate and government reasons why all of my life savings were basically stolen (if I wasn't among the first, I could have gotten in on all the lawsuits). Take 2/3 of a million from me with one hand then give back $150 a month with the other? No thanks. I don't want to sell all of my stuff, but that's what I'm doing while doing side-jobs (until tech jobs that don't require 5-year experts in some narrow discipline with two years of current employment start coming back).
I WILL eventually get back all of the money I lost and more. Three years working at that alternative energy startup for squat was just an attempt that didn't work out (also mostly due to the government giving money to failing companies with connections like Nancy Pelosi's brother at the helm - we couldn't get funding and our customers have had all sorts of issues getting permits approved and funding promised to them). I've been working part-time at businesses owned by a couple of friends and I'm running into lots of places that have said I'm "over qualified" when I go out looking for jobs to hold me over (places like UPS Stores, Grocery Stores, etc.). Who cares if I'm "over qualified," I'd still like to pay rent and eat!
If you want to see what I'm doing now, check out
www.nwclips.com - I just started creating this a couple of weeks ago to sell products from my friend's auto body supply shop (where I created the inventory system and help with other various aspects). Google finally released it after 11 days so it would show up in search results on Monday and we had our first sale yesterday. The point is, I keep trying.
Actually, it doesn't apply to you. To qualify for food stamps, you have to have less than $2000 worth of resources--"thing you own." I think you have a lot more than that. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people far, far poorer than you, who can't even imagine owning a guitar worth thousands, or multiple effects boxes and amps. This is subsistence-level assistance for the very very poor. Some of these people probably even work, and still don't own anything of value, and don't make enough to eat. It's really easy to paint the very poor with a broad brush and say they aren't willing to work. Almost 14% of people without a high school diploma are unemployed. I have a very hard time believing that is because they don't want to.
It would be a process to the storm. First you have to get people aware of what your trying to do, rein in government spending.
Then get the message across that everyone needs to claim the lowest amount of deduction from their checks. Everyone will have way underpaid and owe money we have no intention of paying. In the end, you fuck the government out of money and force them to take a hard look at spending. It would take millions of people doing this, but I think liberals and conservatives and all others would agree that government spending should be the first place we look for money. Not the goddamn rich, poor or middle class. That should come last.
In this process, we would surely have a good stance for making the tax system way more simple. Some form of a flat tax where loopholes don't exist. If you make x, you pay x, etc. Simple as that. Hell, you'll have a good idea of exactly how much taxes you'll have to pay each year that way. If you have a set salary, almost to the penny.
One day we'll learn, again, that government is not capable of making sound decisions when they consider money that isn't theirs. Why should they?
Then, you can establish a program that actually determines if a person deserves for example, government housing, food stamps, etc. If a person is capable of working and isn't making an attempt too, the government will provide you something you can do 8 hours a day until you decide too. If you refuse, you can go to the palace of government housing, the fucking jail house. ;D ;D
The government could afford to do stuff like this minus loopholes in taxes, write offs etc. Plus be much smaller with less red tape and all that shit.
I know this sounds to simple, but its just to make a point. The tax system is devised to collect the most money it can for government to do exactly what the fuck they want without having to answer for it. And, for government so far, its worked.
Well, except that they spend the money whether they have it or not. They will tack a couple more years of work on before you get retirement benefits and call it cutting spending.
Just Boomers n' buddies takin' care of themselves...
Hook, that argument was made in the last election, and lost handily. I think you overestimate the amount of people who think we pay too much in taxes, and that our government spends too much. Although $350 billion worth have taken your advice, and skipped out on taxes.
You would shit your pants if you had Jon's tax rate--we're not even close to European levels of government funding.
I don't care about another country. Does little to care about this one.
When our government gives billion of dollars to other countries, when our government gives that much money away, I pay enough taxes. In fact, I pay way the fuck to much in taxes.
http://www.wrmea.org/component/content/article/245-2008-november/3845-congress-watch-a-conservative-estimate-of-total-direct-us-aid-to-israel-almost-114-billion.html
This is just one example dude. Thats fucking scary. That is one example. I think we pay to much in taxes. Your damn right.
But Hook, that is Gods chosen nation. (That ought to get the locals fired up! LMAO!!!)
Jon — Dec 11, 2012
Tax bill for apr 2011 to apr 2012 = £20,000
payment on account for next year = £10,000
Total payment to be made Jan 2013 £30,000
additional payment on account to be made Jul 2013 £10,000
Plus of course there is the NI (national insurance) contributions to pay at 9% of income.
Wow. No tax shelters in the UK? Nothing you can do to write off some of your expenses? Do you have a tax accountant do your income tax returns?
desertbluesman — Dec 14, 2012[quote author=Jon G link=1355255612/0#0 date=1355255612]
Tax bill for apr 2011 to apr 2012 = £20,000
payment on account for next year = £10,000
Total payment to be made Jan 2013 £30,000
additional payment on account to be made Jul 2013 £10,000
Plus of course there is the NI (national insurance) contributions to pay at 9% of income.
Wow. No tax shelters in the UK? Nothing you can do to write off some of your expenses? Do you have a tax accountant do your income tax returns?
I do my own tax returns. Unfortunately owing to the type of business that I am (document hosting via my own web servers) there are very little costs so I have very little to write off. I have my business premises and normal office costs and mileage fuel costs that are fully written off but other than that I have no other costs !
Jon — Dec 14, 2012I do my own tax returns. Unfortunately owing to the type of business that I am (document hosting via my own web servers) there are very little costs so I have very little to write off. I have my business premises and normal office costs and mileage fuel costs that are fully written off but other than that I have no other costs !
Bummer, well, pay up, it is just the cost of doing biz in a good society. (At least that is the way I get my head around feeling bad about our taxes......) 8-)
Jon, a little buziness advise... put a server in every room! ;D
I subscribe to the company motto "If you don't spend it, the government will!"
So maybe your company headquarters needs a new break room, complete with spa and bigscreen TV? ;)
CraigBert — Dec 14, 2012I subscribe to the company motto "If you don't spend it, the government will!"
So maybe your company headquarters needs a new break room, complete with spa and bigscreen TV? ;)
Yeah I had thought of that but I want to grow things slowly and surely. Once I have doubled my customer base in a year or so then I will think about investment etc but at the moment I'm just glad the money is coming in and then mostly being grabbed by the taxman, and then being given to some lazy fucker who doesn't deserve it.
While that's not entirely true Jon, it's damn hard not to think that way. Put it this way, we give away to much money to people not to have some way to check on these people to make sure they are really hurt or unable to work. I've seen guys use 2 SS#'s, 2 names, get disability on one name and work making $20 bucks an hour for a construction company on the other. My ex father in law from my first marriage, got stamps, disability, and SS all while raising horses, hunting, a little farming, as on a tractor all day at times, etc. On top of that he was suing an oil company that he worked for because he got hurt and can't work. Thats all I got, but I'm sure the # of shit heads scamming the government is pretty high.
By the way, I turned in that guy with 2 names. Don't know what happened after that.