27 posts
Having phoned DV247 in Barnet (I'm a repeat customer) on Thursday to check they had a Fender Mustang III for me to try, I popped in today only to find the one they thought they had was sold before I called!
However, the guys there have been terrific & compensated me for the inconvenience. They offered me one with free delivery (should get here Wednesday) and on 30-days approval - and they gave me a discount - £200 instead of £217. If I don't like it I can return it for a 'no-quibble' full refund within 30 days (with amp & all packaging in good order of course). I thought I was in the USA for a minute....but I checked, and they are definitely in Barnet, UK! ;D
No-brainer, so I took the deal of course.
Great to see this type of approval period being offered by UK stores - certainly the first time I've come across it!
Rich :)
Let us know how you like the amp Rich. A little video with clips would be cool as well.
desertbluesman — Apr 23, 2011Let us know how you like the amp Rich. A little video with clips would be cool as well.
I'll certainly let you guys know how I get on, but there's already an excellent video with Damon from Fender, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNgTipganH4
Interesting:
Firstly, the guy in the video is very good at presenting, very watchable.
The Sound: From the sound recording on the video I really don't like the sound of the amp at all, lots of ice pick going on, but that may be the recording of course ?
Not for me though as I really do not like modelling at all. I've had Pod, Tonelab, AxeFX and sold all of them. Just doesn't have the certain "something" and I'm sure I will never find my nirvana in a modelling amp/system. You can't beat plugging in to a real amp, turn it up and play.
Horses for courses !
This is the first I've heard of this. So Fender have jumped on the modeling bandwagon and to my ears it sounds great. More importantly here in Australia it appears the retail price for the 111 is A$499 which is cheap. The software that comes with it is very good too and not just fender's fuse software. I'll be following your journey with this amp with much interest. I know you're an old Line6 and Valvetronics man and now going Fender. Have you tried the Marshall JMD1 amps? I'd love to hear you thoughts on all this and who in your opinion wins the race.
Jon — Apr 24, 2011 You can't beat plugging in to a real amp, turn it up and play.
And as Shakespeare said Jon - 'There lieth the rub'. Because to get the best out of any all-tube amp, you have to pump up the volume to push the power tubes - THAT'S where the real warmth and feel of valve amps comes from. Attenuators are a part solution, but they all sap tone to one extent or another.
I was brought up on valve amps and have owned at one time or another everything from Marshall JCM800, JTM45, 50w Plexi to Vox AC30 and Fender Black and Silverface amps. So I know how great these amps are - but also how big, heavy, costly to maintain, and limiting these all are. You can't get a Fender to sound like a Marshall or Vice-a-versa and even if you had a Marshall, Vox and Fender to cover all your bases and some essential pedals (reverb, delay, chorus, compressor) you could never schlepp them all around.
And take it from someone that's owned Fender amps - those Fender tones are as near spot on as I've ever heard from a modeling amp - even at least on a par with the H&K Zentera which IMHO was the best modeling amp ever made and which made the Line 6 VettaII look and sound like a toy! The Fender clean, bell-like, shimmery, bright sparkly tones are THE hardest ones for any modeling amp to get. And these are what attract me to the Mustang III more than anything else.
I have a wonderful all-valve Laney VC30-210 plus 1x12" extn cab. But it has to be cranked to get the best from it, and it's impossible to play quietly at home. If I gig or rehearse with it, I need to take my pedalboard too. My Valvetronix AD120VTX/AD212/VC12 with BBE SS, BBE Boosta Grande, & EQ in the FX loop is a stonking rig for live gigging and most folk in the audience couldn't tell it's modeling. But it's big, heavy, and takes a while to set up.
So, why the Mustang? IMHO Line 6 is digital rubbish, the latest Valvetronix are a disappointment, the Peavey Vypyr is a kids toy, and the Laney Prism (though pretty good I have to say) can't do Fender tones. Folk who's opinion I value tell me that the Mustangs have the best modeling quality and feel of any SS amp they've ever heard - so I'm going to try it!
Well, assuming it sounds great (if not it goes back - I have 30 days) it will give me what is reported to be some of the best quality modeling and effects in a lightweight amp with a decent Celestion 12" speaker, that I can easily carry without doing my back in that will be more than enough for home, rehearsing or smaller gigs. Plus I can customise patches as I need, and I won't need to use any external FX pedals. I'll have an amp that sounds great at low volume for home use (which will keep my wife happy) that comes with recording software and a load of other stuff, and even a 2-button footswitch for £200!!!
So, in short, I want one lightweight box that can do it all, and I'll accept that it isn't 'quite as good as the real thing' - but if it's fuckin' close, then that'll do me! You find me an all-valve amp that can do all that for £200 and I'll buy two! ;)
And if I don't like it Jon, I'll be honest & tell you. I'll then go for the Laney Cub 12R class A/B all valve, with the 1w and 15w input. So at least I'll be able to crank it a bit at 1w (but it's STILL darned loud!) :)
Yep, understand all that Rich and been there too with an array of 100 watt and 50 watt amps in the past. I fully understand the wish to have great tones all in one box....I mean damn, I even dropped £2,000 on an AxeFX in the pursuit of tone....but it really isn't there....just a poor 2nd best. The one area where we differ is that I don't really have a need for a variety of tones and pedals. I don't play "live" all that often these days, but even when I do I still only need one amp sound that can be controlled from the guitar volume pot, and one pedal (wah)....and that's it. So my "live" rig is pretty much a guitar, an amp and a wah pedal, that gets every tone that I need for the stuff that I play. If, however, you do a lot of covers from wildly different genres then I can fully understand the need to have a truck full of amps and effects.
I'm not knocking the pursuit of an all-in-one solution....I would love to find it, but no matter how much money you throw at it, it just doesn't seem to be there.
So me here, I'll just stick with an amp, and when I need to crank it at home, well, the neighbours around here aren't at home much anyway ;D
Good luck with the Fender and I will be truly interested in your time with it.
Cheers Jon - & I think you hit the nail on the head. If you do need a wide variety of different tones then it's a different ball game - otherwise, I'm with you re the simplicity of your rig. It's fine for specific artists like Angus Young who simply plug straight into their Marshall's - but if you need to cover country, rock, jazz, blues, funk, fusion etc then you need a more versatile rig. And as you've probably gleaned from my you-tube vids I (try to) cover a lot of different styles.
As you rightly said Jon, it's horses for courses - amps are simply a tool to do a job, and you need different tools for different jobs. And if the Mustang III doesn't thoroughly impress me, I'll return it & get the Laney Cub as I mentioned. But for only £200 (not £2,000) and with a 30-day approval option, it's gotta be well worth a try!
I'll keep y'all posted!
Rich ;)
I am thinking on the Laney Cub 12 R. I have to get to Guitar Center and demo the thing one of these days.
desertbluesman — Apr 25, 2011I am thinking on the Laney Cub 12 R. I have to get to Guitar Center and demo the thing one of these days.
It's a cracking little single channel amp with great tone & loads of excellent features you don't normally expect at this price-point: - built in tilt stand, Celestion Rocket 50 speaker, serial FX loop, 8/16 Ohm extn speaker out, 'less than 1w' and 15w inputs, tone knob in addition to normal EQ that acts as 'presence', plus a decent sounding digital reverb - and if you're in UK & register online you get an extended 5-year warranty!!
Thanks Rich. I will look into it someday soon.
The Mustang amps are getting overwhelmingly favorable response at TGP. TONS of guys there saying how good they are. The threads praising them are only second to the Egnater Tweaker threads. Even the II ($200!!!) is getting great reviews.
OK guys - update on the Mustang III - I've only had it since yesterday afternoon, so it's still early days yet. Strangely, although a UK 220/240v model, it came with a US power lead, but the store sent on a UK lead (I have loads of these anyway). First impressions are as follows:
PRESETS
When I first plugged in and scrolled through the pre-sets I was a little under-whelmed. Although there are some goodies, as is common with all modeling amps most are overdone effects wise so don't go by these - but they're not a fair reflection of what the amp is capable of! But the more I've tweaked (see below) and the more I play it, the more I like it.
VOLUME
This is one LOUD amp, that is more than loud enough to compete with even the most enthusiastic drummer without needing to mike up.
SPEAKER
The Celestion is pretty good and I can't think anyone would need to change it. Excellent low end response for the 'thump' you associate with valve amps.
FUNCTIONALITY
Very cleverly designed. Speaker cab emulations are variable between each amp model so if you want a Champ through a 4x12 you can have it.
But what's impressive is the ability to change things like SAG and BIAS settings within each amp model so whether you like your amps tight or looser, or with sharper or warmer response, you can tweak the amp model to suit. These are things I've not seen in any other modeling amp and, combined with choosing the right speaker cab, are IMHO the secret to getting really good tone from the amp.
EFFECTS
With the exception of the ring modulator (which I think is a waste of time in any amp or MFX unit) these are all very good - sine and triangle options, and each effect allows full tweakability as if you were using the real thing (except the simple compressor which has a single control - but there's a full compressor too). You can select ONE each from reverb, delay, modulation or stomp pedal (compressor, overdrive etc) and use them together, but you can't select compressor & overdrive as these are in the same 'section' (same as my VTX).
DISPLAY
Not a big display, but adequate & very clear, you can adjust the LCD contrast, and its lit so you'll easily see it on a darkened stage; ditto the various buttons that light up
NOISEGATE
Excellent - staggered positions rather than fully variable, but it works very well, and is very effective. Factory presets that I thought a little noisy/hissy went almost virtually quiet by using the first 'step', and even noisier presets using a high gain amp model and overdrive went virtually silent by the 'second step', so noise is not an issue with this amp.
TUNER
Fully chromatic, nice display, easy to use and certainly accurate enough for most folk.
GIGGABILITY
You definitely need the optional 4 button footswitch if you are going to gig this puppy
WEIGHT
Ridiculously light for a 1x12" 100w amp
UPGRADEABILITY/SOFTWARE
The amp ships with v1.5 firmware and there are already upgrades. Fender seems to be very attentive to the Fender forums and the latest firmware fixes some of the things folk have picked up on. I haven't upgraded the amp yet
Unlike Mustang II, everything seems tweakable directly from the amp. So, whilst the FUSE software looks good and you're working on a big screen with (possibly) finer control & the ability to save unlimited patches and organise patches around, you can actually work quite happily from the amp. With the smaller Mustang II you need FUSE for deep editing.
TONES/QUALITY OF AMP MODELING
Left this to last intentionally. I've been comparing this to my Vox Valvetronix rig with BBE Sonic Stomp and EQ in the FX loop, and my Laney VC30-210 rig. Whilst the Mustang III doesn't feel quite like an all-tube amp, considering that it's full solidstate with no valves its very good indeed and is very similar to my AD120VTX but without needing the extra pedals in the FX loop. It's very responsive, has excellent touch sensitivity, and responds well to guitar volume roll off.
If you watch some of the you-tube demo's (Chappers did one for Andertons) they weren't impressed with the high-gain presets. Ignore that - tweaked properly with the right cab and a few tweaks of the SAG and BIAS settings, and the high gain models are very good. The Fender models ditto - I can't emphasise enough how cab model, sag and bias changes spectacularly alter the feel, punch & playing dynamics. So, like many modeling amps, this is NOT a plug 'n play amp but although some tweaking is needed, you won't need a lot.
The Fender spring reverbs are spot on, and the range of Fender amps on offer means there's something in there to suit everyone.
EASE OF USE
The amp is very intuitive - I intentionally haven't even opened the manual yet (but I will do) but I've still been able to suss out how pretty much everything works in about half an hour.
WILL I KEEP IT?
Honest answer is I'm not sure yet. It will give me very similar tones to my AD120VTX rig but I think overall my AD120VTX rig still has the edge and the VC12 floorcontroller gives way more gigability control than even the Mustangs 4-button footswitch option. If I didn't have the VTX I'd keep the Mustang in a second as I think it's the best of the modeling amps currently out there including the new Vox Valvetronix VT+ which although has more 'regular' dial controls for easier tweakability, I think is too hissy and lacks parameter controls. I have the VT40+ on loan currently, so I realise a 1x12" vs 1x10" comparison is not necessarily the fairest.
For me, the MIII has the advantage that I can get similar VTX rig tones in a much smaller, lighter package, which is very attractive. But the VTX is easier to tweak (simpler controls, less parameters, but all physical dials with no menus), & the gigging flexibility of the VC12 is superior.
VALUE
For about £200 this amp is phenomenal value and it sounds very good indeed. The software package is generous and from what I've seen, Fender is clearly committed to improving the firmware. The amps look good (although everyone will likely have their own opinions)
UPSIDES
1. Great tone (when tweaked properly) and good feel, touch sensitivity, response
2. Love the ability to alter sag, bias & cabs on all 12 amp models - makes a HUGE difference!
3. Very good effects, excellent delay/reverb options, reasonable stomp box selection (Fender may add to these)
4. Very light & compact for a 100w amp
5. Good speaker
6. Cheap as chips!!
7. Looks good and appears well put together
8. Firmware upgradeability
9. Software package
10. Very good modeling
11. 2-button and 4-button pedals can be used together
12. It's LOUD!
13. Good built in chromatic tuner
14. Serial effects loop and outs for headphone, USB, Aux
DOWNSIDES
1. Need 4-pedal footswitch if you're gigging - the 2-button pedal it comes with can be set to do different things, but isn't flexible enough on its own
2. There is no extn cab out on the combo's so you can't plug it into a separate cab. NOTE:The Mustang V head (2x75w stereo) is the same price as the Mustang III, & it comes with the 4-button switch as standard so if you're a serious gigger with cabs of your own then this is definitely worth checking out!
3. On stage, I think the ease/speed of tweakability is an issue with the rotary controller and LCD menu
4. Not for those wanting a 'plug 'n play' amp that will give instant gratification - but the same can be said of probably all modeling amps.
5. Most factory presets are overdone (pretty typical)
6. No wah on floor pedal so you'll need external unit if you want wah-wah
7. Ring modulation is (IMHO) a useless effect (but some may like it)
VERDICT
Regardless of whether I decide to keep it or not (which is a personal needs driven thing) I think Fender has a winner and IMHO it's the best value and best sounding modeling amp currently out there. A good valve amp (but not all) will still have the edge for some folk - but if you're in the market for a modeling combo with great tone that's phenomenal value, and arguably a cut above the competition, you could do a lot, lot worse than check out the Mustang series!
Rich :)
Great review Rich, very comprehensive. Don't send it back too quickly. tweak the thing for a few weeks. And give us another review at that time. I am interested.
I might be interested in this amp Rich. Ok you have had it a few weeks or so what is your impression after this time? Does it have that modeler/solid state fizz on top?
desertbluesman — May 13, 2011I might be interested in this amp Rich. Ok you have had it a few weeks or so what is your impression after this time? Does it have that modeler/solid state fizz on top?
I think it's arguably the best modeling amp out there at the moment and it feels warm & responsive - not quite like a valve amp, but its very good. As I said, don't go by the presets though - some are goodies, but a lot are overdone. What I'm impressed with is Fenders speed of support and positive approach on the Fender Forum. It's clear that they're very customer focused & the ability to upgrade the amps firmware by USB is a big plus.
On the Mustang III I have, there's no fizziness that I've noticed & I've tried it with all my guitars. We all hear different things of course, & it may also depend on which firmware is in the amp. But its tremendous value and very well designed.
After a lot of soul searching I'm returning it tomorrow & changing it for a Laney Cub 12R. This is NOT because I'm unhappy with the amp - far from it. But because I already have my Vox Valvetronix AD120VTX & VC12 floorcontroller rig, with the EQ, BBE Boosta Grand & BBE Sonic stomp in the loop I can pretty much get the same tones as from the MIII but with better floor control for gigging.
If I wanted to gig the MIII I'd have to buy the 4-button floor pedal (the 2-button pedal it comes with is more than you get from most manufacturers, but you really need the 4-button for gigging) & that's another £50-60. It lacked an extn speaker out and whilst the rotary/lcd systm works very nicely & is very clever, it's awkward for fast tweaks at a gig - I just prefer knobs ala my Valvetronix.
So, I have an excellent modeling rig already, and a lovely Laney VC30-210 rig.....but the latter is just too loud for home use. The MIII, whilst compact and very light for a 100w 1x12" amp, is still a bit big for my den (I'm a little cramped for space). So, I decided that the Cub 12R would fill the gap I have for a smaller tube amp that I can (via its 1w input) crank a bit at home, and it's a lot smaller than the MIII, and it has extn cab outs so I could still use it for club/rehearsals/smaller gigs. Downsides are that I'd need to take my TLST or pedalboard too & it's only single channel. But at £225 it's terrific value for what I need & you have to make some compromises.
I'd love to have been able to buy both but I can only afford one for now. So it's all really about what fits my needs better. I'm going to miss the MIII though - I really do think it's the best in its class at the moment & I think it's definitely worth your while trying one out.
The Mustang II is smaller but also has a 12" speaker. However, the lcd display and extra amp models in the III make it a much better buy & much easier to use because with the I & II you have to use the FUSE software to 'deep edit' - with the III you can pretty much do it all from the amp - and it sounds better with the bigger cabinet.
I just hope I'm doing the right thing! :-/
Rich ;)
Thanks for the reply Rich. I am torn between that amp and the Cub 12R. Or the Fender Blues Junior. I would like to try the 12R live but I don't know if any music stores in this area carry them. I know I can try the Fender Mustang III at Guitar Center about 15 miles down the road. I will Google the 12 R and see if there is a local dealer...
I didn't like the Blues Junior - too harsh sounding, its distortion isn't my cup of tea, & it's way overpriced for what it is. Swapped the amps over today. The Cub 12R is a lovely sounding amp which works very nicely with my pedalboard - just a shame it's not 2-channel with footswitchable gain. I also ran it through a Mesa 2x12 and Mesa 4x12 cab at DV247 before I took it home & especially through the 4x12 it sounded huge! (note: internal speaker is disconnected automatically). Nowhere near as loud though as the 100w Mustang III.
I was not impressed with the Blues Jr either Rich but I know a set of JJ tubes and a speaker change would do wonders for it. In fact I still have the JJ set I used for the Pro Jr Fender tried it for a week and sent back a few years ago. All I need is the balanced 12AX7 for V3 or whatever it is called in the Blues Jr. However I am not looking for loud. If I want loud I use my Hot Rod Deluxe. I am looking for light, small and portable, and will work well against a drummer who is not too loud. Let us know what you think about the Cub 12R after a bit....
The Cub 12R is a lovely little amp. Compact, light, lovely tone, very useable digital delay, nice crunch distortion. I ran it through a Mesa 2x12 and 4x12 at DV247 & it sounded huge! The 8/16 Ohm extn outs are a nice option (internal speaker disconnects).
Not quite as 'sparkly' as my VC30-210 (2x 10" Jensen C10Q16's) but still very nice cleans. Being single channel you won't get full volume clean because it gets crunchier as you turn the gain but it has reasonable headroom. But it should certainly be loud enough. The <1w input is still pretty loud but it lets you use the amp even at very quiet bedroom volumes - I played it last night at midnight without disturbing anyone!
Very pleased with it so far & it loves pedals - great results with all my pedals (Boss GE-7 EQ, Marshall Echo-Head, Marshall Regenerator, Behringer To800 (tubescreamer clone), Marshall Guvn'r, Boss CS3 Compressor).
Haven't tried it yet with my Vox Tonelab ST, but I'm sure it will sound great with the Cub too.
Rich :)
But I still miss the Mustang III - wish I had the money and the space for both! :(
I watched some clips over on Fender's site. The Mustang III looks like a good bang for the buck. Still, a modeling amp........ They all sound exactly like what they are. Although they are coming darn close these days. I don't use a compressor and that may be what is bothering me about the clips I sat through.
Don't go by the clips - it's well worth trying yourself but as always some of the pre-sets are overdone. Lower the sag settings & try the first 4x12 cab on the dial.
Now I am torn between the Mustang III the Laney Cub 12R, and the Pod HD Bean when it arrives on the scene. I want a lightweight amp that does clean nice with reverb so I can put a stomp in front for overdrives. But I also want a new direct recording medium as well. So all three are in the hunt for my dollars. Does the Mustang III do direct recording?
desertbluesman — May 21, 2011 Does the Mustang III do direct recording?
Not only does it do it, but it comes with free recording software. ;) With that extra requirement, I think you definitely need to go in store & try out the Mustang III (100w, decent 1x12" Celestion, onboard lcd panel, extra amp models, FX loop, - much better appointed overall than the II and it still only weighs 36lbs!)
Here's a spec comparison with software listed: http://www.fender.com/en-GB/products/mustang/comparison.php
And an overview here: http://www.fender.com/en-GB/products/mustang/features.php/#/01-mustang-ii-amber-1-brutal-metal
I still might get the III again! ;)
I will have to look into it myself..