The Watering Hole

Charger (and any of you other audiophiles), we (Durham) have finally started moving forward again on getting this CD mixed, processed, and released.  Long story short....we recorded, then had that studio bail when we were close to being done. So we were left with a bunch of audio  files that we had to completely rebuild and put back together in our own recording program (that in itself was a monumental task).

And Brad and Gary both had kids born during this time. So this project was obviously put on the backburner.

But with all of these challenges, we are finally working to complete this CD....finally. Brad (our singer) has found someone who is helping us to mix this (at no charge). And we feel he is making some progress.

The thing that I still think needs work on, is the drum mix.  Charger sent me some very insightful information on how the drums should be recorded/mixed some time ago. I just did not have anybody to give that information to at that time (that was right when the project went into hibernation).

So...take a listen to these 2 tunes, and give me some input 'mixwise'. Especially on the drums. I think the guy now working on this has the ability to fix anything, with proper direction.

And second song:

Hi Johnny - great songs, vocals & playing - loved the solo on shoot for the moon.  

Re 'mix' it's all very subjective as you know and there are few absolute rights/wrongs here.  But to my ears in the first track perhaps it was just a tad guitar heavy (raising the overall track volume, see below) and I feel the vocals could stand out just a little more.  With those balanced its then easier to hear/judge the drum mix.  

In the second, the overall volume of the track doesn't match the first ie it sounds quieter but this is because by comparison the guitar and vocals are much better balanced - the drums could perhaps be given a little more prominence & fullness eg the snare sounded a little 'tinny' to my ears and it might be good for the drums to drive the song a little more.

So as well as the mix in each track I'd suggest just having a listen to the overall levels comparatively on each track so the listener doesn't have to change volume track-to-track.

I'm sure others will have their own views, but hope my thoughts are of some help to get the ball rolling.

Best & great project

Rich  :)

same feedback as last time from me... heh. sounds dark/muddy - too heavy on the lower mids... closed up, not open... like it's in a very very small room. more highs out of the drums would be good but the kit sounds fairly decent eq-wise... could maybe just be louder? the bass is so dominant. I dunno, needs more balance I guess. guitar tones sound pretty cool when they're semi-alone... but they're adding to the lower mid stacking thing I'll bet. vocal sounds like it's too loud sometimes and not loud enough other times. also sounds like the mix is almost mono instead of stereo.

those are some pretty cool tunes! enjoyed listening to them  :)

Thank you gentlemen for the feedback!  Now that we have someone who is actively mixing this that I can get this info to, maybe we can clean it up. Once the mixes are complete, we will obviously normalize the tracks. So volume from one song to another won't be an issue. These are the tracks in their 'naked' form ;)

Thanks again. And any other feedback is appreciated :)

I just wish I hadn't recorded the Shoot for the Moon solo with that annoying delay (that we cannot take out). That's one track I might re-do.

Pain killed nation:
This song sounds like Green Day but the definition is missing.  Kick sounds pretty good. Guitars lack definition, muddy.  Your drummer needs a snare about two inches less deep.  I'd say turn down the gain on the guitars by 50%--it's too late for that.  The backing vocals are all over the map, generally I'd say they need to be a lot lower in the mix.  They're somewhat pitchy and throw off the main vocal.  Is there some sort of vocal trick or plugin going on with the main vocal, like a widener or exciter or something?  The main vocal should be straight up the middle, much more aggressive, punchy, in your face.  Don't put any weird effects on it.  In a song like this it probably doesn't even need reverb.  I'd send it through an API preamp gained up and mix the result back in in parallel.  You probably are completely in the box so try something like a distortion plugin, the sansamp plugin is great, something that thickens and brightens. Bounce it to a separate track and mix it in in parallel.  Also more high end, high mid, just gain and push on the main vocal.  Focus there. The main vocal is 90% of the sound.  If people don't like it they won't like your song.  Cut the low end out of the guitars.  I know those heavy guitars sound great when you solo them, now make them sound like shit when they're soloed... cut at a -6 or -12dB slope at 100-120Hz.  Then start cutting in the low mids, 100-400 Hz.  The bass has that territory covered.  I can't tell what the bass really sounds like because the guitars are stomping all over it, but I like the pump it has.  The snare-- it still needs crack and less boom.  It's too big and too flabby for this, it's a Def Leppard snare on a Green Day song.  Cut in the lows, cut in the low mids, boost in the 5k range, compress the crap out of it.  There's a plugin we have for this snare, called the SPL Transient Designer.  You probably aren't mixing on a system with Universal Audio stuff, so there are some other options out there... neither of these is really the same as the SPL, but they work on similar principles.  http://www.schaack-audio.com/transientshaper.html - http://www.digitalfishphones.com/main.php?item=2&subItem=4
Dial in more attack, less sustain.  Make that snare pop instead of dissolving.  

It sounds to me like there's an overall sheen on the mix.  On your master bus, there's a compressor or eq or some sort of "emulation" plugin that isn't working for me.  Strip the crap off the master bus, mix it with just a very transparent compressor.

I'd recommend sending the final tracks out to master.

Shoot the Moon-
Again, too much low end, this sounds like a concert in a small club with too many subs. Make the guitars less muddy, dark, roll off the lows, cut the low mids. Kick sounds good. Remember the main focus of this song--what is it? Oh yeah, the vocal.  Vocal sounds washed out.  Make it up front, aggressive, punchy, sharp. No effects, minimal reverb on a send. Pretty much the same recommendations as the last song.  More main vocal, less backing vocals. Snappier snare, tighter compression, push the 5k and pull back the 200-400hz, transient designer here as well.  At 2:10 and especially 2:14 the eighth note hits on the kick with the band are rushed - copy and paste the earlier hits.  Listen to the mix quiet, barely audible. Can you hear the vocals? Can you understand them?  Now loud--is it something you want to keep listening to? Beware of overcompression and limiting on the master bus. Light compression, peak limiting just barely keeping it from clipping.  

Send it out to master.

I liked it punky. well put together.