19 posts
Borrowed a friends Celestian and Black Widow loaded 4x12. Did several tests between the 4x12 and the Thieles.
Results...
While loud, and very articulate, the Thieles suffer the physical limiation of being a 1x12 speaker. They simply cannot resonate and push air in a way comparable to a 4x12.
The chest hitting purcussive bottom end I crave was so easy to obtain with the 4x12. The htieles are going up for sale any dya to finance a decent 4x12 cab. Although, givin my new financial arrangement (after I move on the 1st, putting it off til the last possible day) I guess I will just keep the thieles and buy a 4x12. they are nice little cabs. But a 4x12 (or quad as I have heard some of you from accross the pond say) just gives me that wonderful fullness I am missing.
Funny thing is, I have doen this comparison before and the thieles fared better than this time. But, what I did differently was set them up in stereo, a Thiele on one side of the Carvin power amp, 4x12 on the other. I dialed in various settings on the knobs, and in side by side A/B testing, the 4x12 was clearly the better choice for Godsmack and Avenged Sevenfold stuff.
What I did like was the Thiele mixed with the 4x12 at about 60% volume, just to give the overall sound a little more dimension, but, in a live application with the amp mic'd, this is pointless. Well, I suppose I could mic both of them, but then once again my rig would be getting needlessly complicated.
Finally, just for fun, I bridged the Carvin in 100 watt mono mode and ran a mono signal from the Tonleab into the Carvin, ran into the 4x12... 100watts gave me much more dynamic headroom, the amp came to life. I am pleased with this for now. I guess my next gear acquisition will have to be a 4x12.
100 watt mode is where it's at!! I run each of my channels on the Roadster on 100 watts. At the same volume, it's fuller and more authoratative.
I do like a little bigger cabs than a 112. I'm eventually wanting to add a second 212 with an open back to my rig (currently have a Roadster 212 closed back). Maybe a Boogie 3/4 back cab with Celestion Golds. With the head I have, the 212's give me the extra resonance but keeps the bass tracking tight.
I've never understood why people bother with 1x12 cabs. I suppose they are good for studio stuff. But gigging guys need at least a 2x12.
Shit, dude, we're playing shows with 1x8s! That's why the dudes at the front of house have all those fancy-ass mics and shit.
Fenderbender — Jul 25, 2008I've never understood why people bother with 1x12 cabs. I suppose they are good for studio stuff. But gigging guys need at least a 2x12.
All depends on the speaker, I use EVM12L's, in 1-12 cabs and I know that my 2, 1-12 cabs will stand up to any celestian 4x12 cab any day. When I played out I used to use Twin or Pro Reverb amps with JBL K120's, but the day I got my first Mesa Boogie Mark II with the EVM12L in it, the JBL's and all other guitar speakers went bye bye. I still use that very same EVM12L speaker in one of my 1-12 cabs, and play the HRD through that, every once in a while I use the on board HRD speaker for 1 minute hoping that it will sound as full and punchy, but it gets unplugged in about 30 seconds and the EVM12L gets plugged back in.
spaivxx — Jul 25, 2008 the Thieles suffer the physical limiation of being a 1x12 speaker. They simply cannot resonate and push air in a way comparable to a 4x12.
Have you tried raising the speaker up higher. When I played out I always had my speaker cab chest high on a bar stool. And stood about 5 feet in front of it.
Yes, but it is just an issue of moving air. 4x12 cabs at an equal volume just sound more full bodied. I agree about the EV speakers, those fuckers are sweet, I have owned a few Mesa 4x12 cabs that came loaded with 2 of them and 2 Celestians. We mic everything, and if the mic is not hit with sufficient SPL, the purcussiveness of the tone on palm mued shit just wont be there.
spaivxx — Jul 25, 2008Yes, but it is just an issue of moving air.
Yep I once owned a Marshall Plexi and I played it through a Sun cabinet with 6-12's in it, and that thing moved air. I know what you mean. You play harder stuff than I do so yes I guess the 4-12 cab is necessary for that. When I owned the Plexi the other guitarist in the band has a 8-12 stack so I could keep up with him then. I also owned a cab with 2-12's in it at the same time, and I could not get heard with the Plexi and that 2-12 cab. I just remembered that. It was a long time ago that I played harder stuff with lots going on besides my guitar so I had to think way back to relate.
I put the cabs on Craigslist for $500 and they just sold not even 4 hours later. Dude is coming up to where we are playing tonite and getting them. My buddy said I can hold on to his 4x12 cab for about 3 weeks, so I am on the hunt for a 4x12. Would absolutely love to find one loaded with the EV's that are in these Thieles. Yeah, the Thieles have the EVM12L... I wasn't sure because all the EVM12L speakers I ever had were marked on the front of the speaker with the EV logo... But the buyer wanted to know exactly what was in them so I just took them apart.
I would like to have held on to them, but I really like the way the 4x12 sounds. Heck... maybe take the $500 from these, throw in a little extra and get me a Vetta off eBay! Well, no, maybe not.
Off to hunt 4x12 cabs now, I saw a nice "vintage" Carvin cab, the Mesa wannabe ones they made that Vai and Zappa used to use with the big steel grill and the "fancy" Carvin logo.
Good luck in your search.
Ok, stupid question time...
Are you comparing a single 1x12 to a 4x12? (Or even two 1x12's?)
I'm wondering if you had four 1x12's if there would be any difference. Why would you do this? Because you have lots more options in terms of spread between speakers and angles.
But, most importantly for those of us with bad backs, it's easier to carry four 1x12's than one 4x12! :)
For me, I think in terms of ease of portability, that is my main issue, but I play against a sparse rhythm sections, I don't need to fill the room with sound anymore. But I get his need, he plays metal a bunch, you gotta be able to cut through with lots of air with that kind of music. 4 1-12 cabs move as much air as 1 4-12 cab is my guess.
Yeah for other stuff like when I play with my fusion group I either go TLSE direct or TLSE through a JC120.
I think part of what makes a 4x12 so cool is the size of the resonating chamber, i.e. the cab.
Add that to the 4 12 inch speakers and it is a recipe for bigness.
Plus, I would rather carry 1 cab than 2 or 4. I would rather plug in 1 cab than 2, etc...
Now that I am using a single 4x12 cab, I can run 1 trs/xlr cable from the TLSE to my amp, one cable from amp to cab.
spaivxx — Jul 25, 2008Yeah for other stuff like when I play with my fusion group I either go TLSE direct or TLSE through a JC120.
I think part of what makes a 4x12 so cool is the size of the resonating chamber, i.e. the cab.
Add that to the 4 12 inch speakers and it is a recipe for bigness.
Plus, I would rather carry 1 cab than 2 or 4. I would rather plug in 1 cab than 2, etc...
Now that I am using a single 4x12 cab, I can run 1 trs/xlr cable from the TLSE to my amp, one cable from amp to cab.
yeah a 4 12 cab is different sounding that single cabs I guess I haven't played one since the late 1960's truthfully when I was playing the beginnings of what turned out to be the metal genera, as for carrying that monster that is what they make hand trucks for.
I have a case for my HRD that has wheels and a handle like the big suitcases and I can put my guitar & pedal board on top and off I go in one trip.
Fenderbender — Jul 25, 2008I've never understood why people bother with 1x12 cabs. I suppose they are good for studio stuff. But gigging guys need at least a 2x12.
Its funny you mention this. I am gigging on a regular basis these days and I am thinking along the same line. I still use the classic 30. Maybe I'll put it up for sale and upgrade.
bon
www.avatarspeakers.com
can't say enough about the quality they manage to squeeze into a great price. i've got a 2x12 from them and couldn't be happier
+ a bunch.
I've had at least a dozen differnent cabs from them and Dave (the owner) is extremely easy to get a hold of and talk with. Their customer service is superb, packaging top-notch and the quality of what I got was awesome.
chase — Aug 02, 2008www.avatarspeakers.com
can't say enough about the quality they manage to squeeze into a great price. i've got a 2x12 from them and couldn't be happier
I would second the recommendation.
I'll third it. I have two of Dave's cabs and two other speakers I bought from him. Great deals from a great guy