The Watering Hole

I've got several pieces of the new gear working in this clip, had to hear what it all sounds like together in a (rough) pre-mix.

Basically this is two different guitars, two different amps and two different speakers being mic'd (and a new mic at that). That might seem a bit much for a simple guitar jam thingy but it helps me justify picking all this crap up!  :D  

Instrumental Clip / Save As

sounds pretty good.  What is the new gear?  

Thanks. The Charvel doing the main playing is only a few weeks old (to me) as well as a heritage greenback (finally starting to loosen up) and an MD421 that was mic'ing it.

nice!  From my experience, you don't want to mic a greenback until its broken in.  I had mine for 2 years and it still was to bright and crispy so I sold it.  I didn't play it loud enough, often enough to break it in.   My Private Jack has sounded great since I got it, (but I did get it used) so I'll just go with that as my greenback type speaker.

I hear ya. I've heard mixed things about Greenbacks (and speakers in general, I mean they will sound different as time goes by, sure, but you're either gonna like the general sound from day one or hate it...I liked the sound). I've read where some don't like their Greenback speaker at first and some that dug it and even some that said it didn't change THAT much over time anyway. So you should already kinda know where you're at with it. I personally am very happy with the tone in the clip..though my Greenie already has probably around 100 hours of loud playing through it.  ;)

Sounds great to me !! I like a lot this kind of "distortion with clarity" !

Ciao!
Marco

thanks, lwb!! I JUST reupped (same link) the same thing with a hopefully meatier bass take.

About the clarity - goes without saying it's a little harder to play with less gain (not to the point where you're fighting it though) but the results are often better and worth the effort. Took forever for me to learn that however, lol, but yeah, I prefer that tracked sound in the end now every time. This amp has 3 "gears/levels of saturation" and I tend to stay in the lowest one!  :)

Sounds damn fine Derek.

Justify?  If it makes you happy, doesn't hurt anyone else or make you a burden to society ;) then I consider it a boon, nay almost a civic duty for you to buy gear and lift our spirits vicariously through your art!

Besides it is nice to hear a piece of gear integrated into a rig we are familiar with.

How's it sound for cleans?

Thanks Tobe! Civic duty to purchase gear and post it in use, heh? LOL...yes, I think I like that, that's sig worthy. It's sorta an obligation, right?! ;)

Sorry I took a couple weeks to say "thanks" BTW, but I wanted to wait until I finished this up and use the cheap bump to post the finished (?) tune at the same time.

As for the cleans on the 5150 III, they're great, especially considering this is a high gainer. They have much more character than the Splawn in that regard (but that's not why you own a Splawn ;D). I didn't really use the clean channel on this tune though...the verse rhythm section is actually the blue channel of the amp (rhythm channel, which also sounds great for leads with a boost, basically the star of the amp) with the gain down a good bit. It's just a nice, ratty, broken up sound to play over IMO. I used the Quick Rod for all the leads parts. Three years later and we're still on our honeymoon.  :D

Finished Tune.mp3

/applause

very nice!

edit:

just a couple quick process questions... what do you use for drums and do you do the midi yourself?

if yes on #2, any tips? I have to use the midi supplied with superior 2 because I'm just horrible at drum sequencing :(

Hey, thanks sheep!! \m/

I'm still using EZDrummer (don't laugh, I'm too lazy to experiment with anything new, lol) with all the suggested tweaks Rocket shared with me years ago (particular plugins and EQ suggestions to use on certain pieces, the drum bus, etc). I've since moved on enough to put a little spin on what he got me started with, but just a enough to make that claim. Wish he was still into music and popping in here. :( I still have one of the vids he made me (litterally walking through some secrets of his to try ;)) if you'd like it, I can up it for ya, though I think you're nuts, your drum sounds are great IMO, sound really live and fat.

The sequencing was easy as could be, pretty much raw, drag and drop style of the exisiting beats/grooves and then just a little altering of something here and there to make it sound less stiff.  

yeah, I'm not unhappy with the sound of the kit (except maybe the snare sometimes... but, different story)

I'm generally unhappy with what I manage to sequence on my own - beats/groove/fills/etc - I can't program a convincing drum performance, probably because I don't know how to play the drums! go figure. ;)

also, no beef with EZDrummer here - whatever works, works!

There's something very flattened about this production--everything seems to be occupying one space, if that makes any sense... I want to hear more difference and separation and some changes in tones... Maybe less mastering limiter? More dynamics?  The EZD sounds a little over polished to me, I like EZD but I am finding myself using it less and less, maybe less brightness and compression on the kit?

I got addictive drums when it was on sale at GC and I am super impressed with it.  Great mix of kits, all kinds of post-processing like BFD, better grooves than BFD or EZD, a really good mix of very polished sounds and very rough sounds, and some really nice features in the plugin.

Thanks for the input, Charger. I have three plugins in the mastering chain, eq, compression, limiter. I'll try it again later with some of the compression and limiter backed off and see if that adds a little more dynamics. If not, I won't lose any sleep over it one way or another, it sounds pretty solid to me right now, I mean if it can be better, awesome, but hell, I'm just a schmuck having fun with this as a hobby, shits and giggles stuff, I can definitely live with it for that! I do appreciate the suggestion though, that's why I'm here.

edit: ok, here's the tune with both the compressor and limiter OFF. I had to crank the master volume up a bit to get the overall volume to match up with the previous version to make the comparison a level one, glad I still had pleanty of headroom. It does sound a little more, well, less stuffy I guess, but honestly, it's a tiny difference or I'm just not capable of hearing it (VERY possible). It could be I was already using the master plugs pretty lightly to begin however, or simply put, my non engineer ears are not ready for prime time mastering, lol....which IMO, is an artform unto itself, takes years to develop those skills! In fact, I think this is actually the second full tune I've recorded AND mixed/mastered myself from the ground up. LONG way to go I suppose....but I do love this hobby.

No Comp or Limiting.mp3 / Save As

That sounds a lot better to me.  A lot.  Listening to them back to back, the snappiness of the drums is much better.  The only issue is that you need a little bit of master limiter on there, not for gain makeup, but to keep it from clipping.  In a couple spots the mix clips.  But I'm talking just to catch the clips... not to make it louder.  Sounds really great.

I still have suggestions, but these are not limited to your recording, these are something I look for in every mix.

1) check the space... are your drums in one room and your guitars in another?  It's sometimes good to back off on the "comp/room" channel in EZD and instead send some snare and toms to a bus with some room reverb, then send a little bit of the rhythm guitars and more of the lead guitars to the same bus... Put your players all in the same room, so to speak.
2) differentiate... this is where the genius comes in.  do something to your main focal instrument (vocal or in this case lead guitar) to make it pop out of the mix.  When I think of lead guitar doing this, I think of "crushing day" by Joe Satriani.  It's the harshest, trebliest rhythm sound ever... but it contrasts masterfully with the very smooth lead sound.  Contrast is your friend.  In this tune it sounds like the rhythm guitars and the lead guitar have very similar tones.  I want the lead to leap out at me... add some mids or highs, or cut, throw a mic out of phase, etc... or just bring down the rhythm guitars in the mix.  Something to make it pop.  Alternatively, you could do something to the clean guitars, I can almost hear some chorus on the cleaner arpeggiated guitars...  

Again, just suggestions, things I always listen for...

Alright, I tried some of the easiest suggestions you listed, simple enough to sample anyway, especially since they didn't involve re-tracking anything, lol. The difference is more clear to me now when I A/B this with the first mix. The snare just breaths more for starters. I pulled down the distorted rhythm parts just a smidge. I left the cleaner/verse rhythm sections at the same volume. Tried just a hair of chorus on that though, didn't like it but I kinda knew I wouldn't, never been a fan of coloring effects, even when ultra subtle. I left the compressor off when mastering, turned the limiter on again, brought its main level control all the way off, then started slowing bringing it back up until I heard it beginning to work a little. Still had to raise the main volume some to get a good level like the original but couldn't get it quite as loud sans a compressor. It's pretty close though and on this one the clipping is all but gone (only with cans could I hear a hint in a couple of spots). Thanks for helping out with this stuff. Pretty solid mix now I think!!! Not as hot, but more dynamic. :)

Mix #3 / Save As

That's a pretty awesome mix.  Much better dynamics. Interesting to listen to it back to back with the first mix.  I like the contrasts and the lead sound really pops.  

I am a huge fan of dynamics... it's much easier to crush everything than to find space for everything.  I like it!

Sweet! Thanks again for the help and now the thumbs up!