The Watering Hole

I did another hours practice on this solo today. Still not right, but better (or closer) I think.

I'm playing along with the "live" version from song remains the same and I am panned hard right.  This is the closest I've got to it so far.

What do you think? Can you tell there is progress from the first posting I did of this?


edit: I've just noticed, this loops "almost" perfectly, purely by chance

Sounds pretty good to me Jon - presumably you were playing over the original?

voxman — Aug 01, 2008Sounds pretty good to me Jon - presumably you were playing over the original?

Yes that's right.  I'm trying to nail this 100% as the '73 live version. Nearly there...actually this is the first time I've ever tried to do any solo "note for note"....usually just wing it  ;D

Here's the latest effort on the solo, this time to my backing track

It's funny Jon, between the two of us we've probably got the bastard nailed, but we're both missing 'bits' - you've nailed some bits better than me (particularly in the intro) , & I've possibly got other bits nailed a bit better (in the second part).  I'm away for a week, but I'll try & put up a you-tube when I'm back.  Be great if we were able to jam in person & compare notes & help each other!

One thing I haven't got quite right & you're much nearer to is the phrasing of the intro.  

One of my bugs is that JP plays a single 'high-up the register' triad he uses on the live version (and the other two triads in other parts of the song).  The album version starts the three (A,D,E) triads on the 6th fret I think, and it sounds as if these are transposed up the register to the 12/13th fret in the live version to give a more 'shrill' tone (haven't got my guitar in front of me, but hopefully you get what I mean, even if the fret numbers are slightly out) - I can't seem to get it to sound quite right - what notes/frets are you playing here Jon to get that nice high end 'shrill'?

Rich  ;)

Sounds good Jon. The only Zep we play is a very heavy version of "Immigrant Song". No solos in it though.

One good thing about learning Page solos, the guy is great and legendary and all, but I have heard tell that he is one of the sloppiest live players on the planet, so if you are playing his stuff and don't nail it exactly, you are probably doing as well as he.

Note: I have never personally seen Zeppelin live, the comment on the sloppy play comes from anecdotadal evidence, not my own first hand observation.

spaivxx — Aug 04, 2008
One good thing about learning Page solos, the guy is great and legendary and all, but I have heard tell that he is one of the sloppiest live players on the planet, so if you are playing his stuff and don't nail it exactly, you are probably doing as well as he.

Note: I have never personally seen Zeppelin live, the comment on the sloppy play comes from anecdotadal evidence, not my own first hand observation.

Quite right Spaivxx ...on both counts! -said the same thing myself on Jon's earlier thread.  Re JP's sloppy live play I even posted a link to JP playing rock'nroll in 72 that was about as sloppy as you can get! ;D

Jon - any chance of getting your backing track mate?

Rich  ;)

voxman — Aug 04, 2008Jon - any chance of getting your backing track mate?

Rich  ;)

Yep, no problem, not yet though as I haven't quite finished it. You will notice that the bass stops 2 thirds-in  ;D  I'll finish it later this week and then post it up as an FNJ

Thanks for your comments by the way (and spaivxx)

cheers

Jon

Thanks Jon - what about some help with those triads - What exactly are you playing?

Rich  :-?

I'm not sure which bit you are referring to, but if I am understanding you correctly, then I play

4th string 11th fret (c#)
3rd string 12th fret (g)

and then just slide this up and down one fret accordingly depending on where you are in the riff

little test attached. Is this the part you are referring to?

Jon — Aug 09, 2008I'm not sure which bit you are referring to, but if I am understanding you correctly, then I play

4th string 11th fret (c#)
3rd string 12th fret (g)

and then just slide this up and down one fret accordingly depending on where you are in the riff

little test attached. Is this the part you are referring to?

Thanks Jon - yup, that's the bit - I was playing the full triad rather than just the 2 strings.  I'll play around with the 2 note version.

Rich

by the way Rich, do you have the full 'correct' lyrics for Rock and Roll ?

I'm getting ready for my "high quality" video/audio recording of it next weekend...should be good for a laugh anyway  :)    (there are some words in the final verses that I'm not sure of)

I think so Jon - I'll send them to you.

Rich  ;)

Jon, you're getting there bro!  

Thing about Page is, call it sloppy.  Call it FEEL.  But when I was trying to do the "note for note" thing on Page, it's SORTA like Hendrix.  Page might play a triplet but it won't be all notes in "exact timing."  It will be sort of quicker on the first two notes, slight dwell on the last.. etc.  Nailing that is the FEEL or essence of nailing Jimmy.  And Jimi.  

Great stuff.  Really enjoying hearing this journey for you. VERY cool to hear your progression on it.  THANKS for sharing!  I LOVE this stuff!

Great playing Jon . I always enjoy the stuff you play but my question is : why?
Why do you spend so much time on learning 1 solo ?
Me personally , don't care about learning a solo the way it is unless it has those signature licks in it.
Jimmy Page is a very sloppy player , like Howie said , and I don't hear anything in that solo that I will remember 5 minutes from now.

I know YOU can play a better lead in this song than Jimmy did.

Clad — Aug 14, 2008Great playing Jon . I always enjoy the stuff you play but my question is : why?
Why do you spend so much time on learning 1 solo ?
Me personally , don't care about learning a solo the way it is unless it has those signature licks in it.
Jimmy Page is a very sloppy player , like Howie said , and I don't hear anything in that solo that I will remember 5 minutes from now.

I know YOU can play a better lead in this song than Jimmy did.

Why? Interesting question.     The answer though is very simple,  I like the solo in the "live" version enough to want to master it note for note, or as close as I can get.  I also haven't spent a lot of time on this, no more than 3 hours in total....but hey, it's fun, or at least it is for me :-)

Good answer Jon!  That's the thing for me too.  If I LOVE a solo, I want to nail it.  If I don't, but like the song, I'll change it or add too it, no problem.  

I was raised in a family of classical musicians and thus taught "note for note, phrasing exact, etc" as THE way to play.  So if I really dig something, I WANT to play it like they did.  But if I don't, I have no problem changing it completely or just adding in my own stuff to theirs.  Having played A LOT of Zep, I know why it's cool to try to nail Jimmy's solos.  

The thing I really love about guitarists like Page and Hendrix is that they are NOT technicians...their strength is "feel and passion" in their playing.....and that is extremely hard to nail note for note.  It's a bit like trying to play a John Lee Hooker riff the same way he did....almost impossible, mostly because he was a really bad guitar player, but for the genre of music his style worked completely, but you try and nail one of his riffs the way he plays it,  can't be done!

There are some great technical guitar players out there where every note is exactly where it should be, and when they play live it sounds just like the record....but when I see a band play live I don't want it to sound like the record, I love the raw energy of it without all the polish...just getting down to the pure grit of it....you can't beat it.

ok , fair enough Jon.
I can see people learning solos note for note if they want to play it in a coverband or so but that's some dedication my friend !
8-)

Jon — Aug 14, 2008The thing I really love about guitarists like Page and Hendrix is that they are NOT technicians...their strength is "feel and passion" in their playing.....and that is extremely hard to nail note for note.  It's a bit like trying to play a John Lee Hooker riff the same way he did....almost impossible, mostly because he was a really bad guitar player, but for the genre of music his style worked completely, but you try and nail one of his riffs the way he plays it,  can't be done!

There are some great technical guitar players out there where every note is exactly where it should be, and when they play live it sounds just like the record....but when I see a band play live I don't want it to sound like the record, I love the raw energy of it without all the polish...just getting down to the pure grit of it....you can't beat it.

Right on Jon - man after my own heart.  :)  Which is why I find some very 'clinical' guitarists very sterile, boring & uninteresting. Feel is as much about getting some of the notes and timing 'wrong' as it is about playing it 'right'.  And don't believe the records either.  Either the sound engineers have 'straightened out' the playing digitally, or what you think was done in one take was actually split into several parts.  Best example of the latter is 'Lazy' on Machine head.  Faultlessly put together by the sound engineer, because Ritchie Blackmore couldn't get it right in one take - it's three different takes put together! So, if you're struggling to play it right - so did he! ;D

Clad — Aug 14, 2008ok , fair enough Jon.
I can see people learning solos note for note if they want to play it in a coverband or so but that's some dedication my friend !
8-)

I do also play "live" with my band, so we will wheel this one out next time.

Also, from a purely "learning" perspective, I can now play something that I couldn't a week or so ago, so that's another step forward.

Now we're talking ! 8-)