The Watering Hole

Ok, a whole day with no clips went by so I'm going to throw some stuff up, excuse the lack of synchronization, have a had a lot going on and not enough time to do much.

Next is applying a cut at 680 to make things a little more defined.

Here's the Krankenstein thru the same chain.

And with the same cut at 680

now here is krank left, engl right...

rinse and repeat...

I guess my goal is to get the 2 tones more closely balanced...  Kind of lose my ears quickly when trying to listen while playing so doing clips like this really lets me sit back and just listen.

The odd thing is both tones sound about the same volume thru my monitors (though they were not up loud at all), yet the Engl was about 3 db louder when all was said and done.

Any comments or criticism welcomed - I'm just trying to dial stuff in at this point.

Also forgot to mention I am using a Wylde Overdrive in front of both with output maxed and just the slightest bit of gain to tighten up the amps low end, mush like a tube screamer but I am finding the Wylde has a bit less mids to it which really helps the definition.

OMG!  Clips from Paul, and it's 1:10 in the morning...  :(.

I'll be listening tomorrow.

Err... Mp3 would be better I guess. Instead of ogg.

I'm at work using "passable" speakers but I liked the last two clips best, hmmm, so maybe I like the punchiness the Krank adds! The no-cut sample with both amps sounds nice and fat. The cut version of that is nice too, would sit well in a full mix and leave room for a thick, meaty solo tone....that clip is coming, right?! My go to freq to cut (if need be) to add some clarity for heavy rhythm is usually 400hz, but I'm sure everyones setup dictates this differently - next time I track some distorted rhythm, I'm gonna try 680hz.  ;)

Agree w/dtr.....nice to hear you posting some clips!

the krank is a way more present and up front tone - it does sound louder than the engl. how are they matched in terms of rms level?

both sound good to me - I like the Krank samples better but that's just my preference, nothing "wrong" with the engl tone.

The krank seems to be a bit louder...maybe it's just de different amp voicing.

Both sounds good, but the engl with its deep sound is the one I prefer !

Ciao!
Marco

Sorry Zonta, I like ogg over mp3 but will redo these later in mp3.

Actually Derek this was just a one off to record something I could listen to and compare the tones directly rather than playing thru one and listening, then switching to the other.  It's not from any song I am working on.  I'll post those as they make progress worth hearing tho.  The 680 thing - that area around 700 seems like a good spot for "metal scoop" clarity.  The 300-400 zone is where things tend to clutter up in a mix so is also worth checking, and in the bass as well.

Sheep - I boosted the Krank clips by about 3.5 db before rendering these files.  I think its the amount of low/low mids in the Engl and my monitoring situation that is throwing me off.  I will check the rms.   I think the krank will be way easier to mix as is, and I prefer it as well at the moment, but want to try to dial the Engl a little closer.  I love the idea of using both tones for a richer sound.  Do you think the Krank could use a bit more low end?  I am thinking it could but that I'd just end up mixing it back out in a final mix. Just want it to have enough "whump".

Marco, The krank clips were boosted 3.5db before I rendered these clips.  I really like the Engl tone, but think it will be harder to sit it in a final mix as it stands right now.  Doing these clips really gave me a good chance to step back and gain some objectivity.

Thanks for listening and commenting everybody :)

I'll work on the Engl a bit and post back when I can.

I don't think it needs more low end necessarily... but it's hard to say without a mix. I just like the overall sound of it - standalone, yeah it could use more thump but I don't know if that would really be necessary with a kick and bass going.

how wide and deep are these notches you guys use?

dunno how wide - I'm using the Waves Neve clone EQ (which explains the fixed 680 point) These clips use a 4.1 dip but that's just kind of a random amount.  It could be different in a regular mix.

Ok here's some feeble attempts to get the tones closer.  It's amazing how different the amps sound.

This time in mp3 format :)

Same formula as last time, cut at 680.  I should probably try harder to balance the level after the cut, but meh, these are cast offs...

Engl less bass....

with cut...  man that's a tight sound...  too bad the playing isn't... lol

And finally the krank left Engl right mix.  sounding closer but man my playing gets so far off on these its funny.

And finally the blended with 680 cut...

What cab(s) are you using for this?  Is it an IR ?  Has some nice depth to it.

Thanks Jon, I'm using Recabinet3, which is basically impulses wrapped by a nice VST plugin interface.  A bit pricey but very convenient.  The UI lets you change mics/cabs/axis/distance (all fixed values) as well as having an EQ and letting you blend 2 cab/mic combinations.  really all its doing is taking all those separate impulses and letting you use an organized GUI to switch between them.  The one bummer is that it does not let you add other external impulses, but I think this is so they can keep all the phase stuff as a non-issue.

hmm

now I kinda think the last one (both with cut) needs more meat on it... more thick?

dunno, it's really kinda hard to say - that might work perfectly depending on circumstances.

it is sounding a hair more "processed" to me though, less amp-y... if that means anything. heh.

Yeah I had the same thought sheep, the cut is too much now. I actually prefer the non cut of the latest clips.  What is your feeling on the whump/thump of the krank now?  I think I may have taken a hair too much off the Engl.  Also have another trick to try with the krank, the sweep knob.  Might be able to get slightly more low end that way without losing clarity of the original clip.

heh another thought, I wish i had the patience/time/talent to quad track all the rhythm parts... These tones layer really nicely on each other when I have one each panned left and right...

low end on the Krank sounds good to me!

I was going to suggest quad tracking but it's definitely a pain - I only try it when there are two different rhythm parts to double... maybe reamping? then it'd still be two tracks to do... but it'd be easy to get both amps out of each take.

I'm looking into it at the moment... was going to get this: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/radial-engineering-prormp-studio-re-amper-passive-re-amping-direct-box/153933000000000 or http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/radial-engineering-x-amp-active-reamplifier -- don't know if I want passive or active yet.

the thing that scares me about reamping multiple amps is the phase issues could get really out of hand...  I don't have the time or patience to deal with that.  Plus would need a direct box as well.  But if you can make it work, let me know :D

ah, yeah... I didn't really think of the amp's own latency. would definitely be a slight variation in trip time through two different amps. oh well, I was mostly interested in sending tracks to instrument level effects (echoplex, black finger, wiggler, mojo vibe etc.) so I'm still good to go! haha ;) :)

ironsheep — Mar 01, 2012low end on the Krank sounds good to me!

I was going to suggest quad tracking but it's definitely a pain - I only try it when there are two different rhythm parts to double... maybe reamping? then it'd still be two tracks to do... but it'd be easy to get both amps out of each take.

I'm looking into it at the moment... was going to get this: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/radial-engineering-prormp-studio-re-amper-passive-re-amping-direct-box/153933000000000 or http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/radial-engineering-x-amp-active-reamplifier -- don't know if I want passive or active yet.

I've got one of those, they work really well.  The problem I have with re-amping is that the quest never ends....it seems there are so many tonal possibilities that I spend all my time testing out different sounds and never actually finishing a song....I'm trying to limit myself to a couple of sounds so that I can actually get some songs into production.

We use the X-amp all the time... take a DI track almost every time we track.  It's really invaluable.

On topic though, those are some glorious heavy amps.  Sounds great to me.