19 posts
Well, the TLSE and Carger's old Carvin power amp are making great sounds, but I am irritated by the old TLSE Achellies Heal, the ability to use only one of the onboard stomps at a time. Guess I am going to either get a decent tube compressor to stick in front of it, or a real wah. Or both. These two effects are ones that I might want to use and not have them limited to whatever preset I may be on. Thinking I should switch to the Tonelab LE, use the built in Exp pedal for volume, add the compressor and wah, mount all 3 pedals to a nice custom case, and viola! The LE has an additional stomp, modeled after the Metal Zone pedal, and some more useful output modes including a 3 band global EQ.
Who knows, I am so fucking gear fickle, earlier today I was 1 bid away from a Vetta. Still may go that route. The spectre of the AxeFx is still lurking in the back of my mind too ;) .
I may be mistaken but on my Tonelab tabletop I can use the excellent compressor and still use a stomp. Been a long time since I programmed it so I ain't sure.
DBM - Just as on the 'Blue' Valvetronix amps, the compressor in the TL/TLSE is in the pedal options, from which you can only use one at a time.
Spaivxx - I'd certainly recommend an external wah-wah, which you can then use globally & kick in on any tone you have, thus leaving you a pedal selection. You might want to consider something versatile like the Boss PW-10 V-wah or the Digitech EX-7, which give you programmable wah options plus other effects (eg distortion & univibe) in one unit.
http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/PW-10/index.html
http://www.digitech.com/products/Pedals/EX7.php
Rich ;)
Rich, thanx for the wah suggestions, but I have used the old Vox 847 for years, until I traded it recently. I will likely get another one of those. The only other wah I have gigged with in the last decade is the built in modeled wah on the TLSE, which is OK, for convenience sake.
More and more the TLLE, a wah, and nice compressor look like my best options. Toss up right now between that or a Vetta. CAT5 to FBV for both power and control makes the Vetta enticing, no more looking for power or running an extension chord to the Tonelab. Just plug the amp in and go.
We did an early gig this evening. It was a charity event with 10 bands. One band, "Go Ask Alice" played covers and featured a chick singer, they did Melissa Ethridge and a lot of other female fronted covers, nohing very heavy. The guitarist used a Valvetronix combo. He had a 335 style hollowbody, man what a great tone he had for the stuff they were doing. I mean a really good, live, natural sounding guitar tone on both rhythm and solo stuff. They had him a little quiet in the mix, not buried but not exactly prominent, but I guess that is another thing about his tone I dug, it hung nicely in the mix without disappearing.
If I were playing blues or fusion I would definitely look into one of those, but I worry about it being good for the Breaking Benjamin, Disturbed, etc... covers. Also, as you said, the Valvetroni amps suffer the same pedal limitation as the TLSE.
IMHO don't touch the Vetta II with a barge-pole. It's awful to use & it still sounds digital. It may have bells & whistles galore, but my AD120VTX kills it for valve tone & feel - the Vetta lacks valve warmth & response.
So, I recommend you get a wah & compressor to use with your Tonelab for now, but if you're still looking to get a gigging amp, hold on until you've checked out 2 new modelling/hybrid amps: -
First, the new Vox Black Diamond Valvetronix coming out in early 2009. I played the prototype at LIMS & its one stonking amp. In addition to a new design with enhanced modelling & effects, & whole list of new amp models, effects & other features, it has 2 programmable pedal sections - but unfortunately they still have wah & comp together in the same pedal group. :'(
http://www.voxamps.co.uk/valvetronix/blackdiamond.asp
The other amp to check out is the new Peavey Vypyr that comes in both SS and valve options (One 12AX7 and four 6L6GC tubes in the 120w 2x12) . Allegedly, these have double the processing power of the Vetta's and Zentera's. Uniquely the Vypyrs model both clean & distortion channels of 24 different amp models (which no one has done before) and you can use up to 5 effects at any time. The amp is 4 channels with true analogue distortion & it has an on-board looper & a 400 pre-set memory with the floor-controller.
http://www.peavey.com/products/Vypyr/index.cfm
Peavey Vypyr 120w 2x12I'm really interested in hearing the Vypyr myself!
Rich ;)
voxman — Sep 21, 2008IMHO don't touch the Vetta II with a barge-pole. It's awful to use & it still sounds digital. It may have bells & whistles galore, but my AD120VTX kills it for valve tone & feel - the Vetta lacks valve warmth & response.
Gee, if that's true than why do so many "real" musicians use it instead? ::)
I don't like Vetta II. Obviously there are those that like it - I'm just not one of them. It's my personal opinion based on having spent some considerable time with Vetta II, and having the Valvetronix directly for comparison - As the Tonelab is Valvetronix technology, I think I'm in a reasonable position to give personal feedback to someone with Tonelab and who's used to that 'feel'.
What other players use, whether professional or not, is totally irrelevant. The only thing that's important to me is what I like, and what suits me - I'm not & never have been a sheep that buys something because someone's told me its good, or not tried something because someone else doesn't like it. There are lots of Marshall players that don't like Vox, and Vox players that don't like Mesa's. Professionals often use Line 6 gear in the studio and (to a much more limited extent) live, and there are professionals who equally use Valvetronix amps both in the studio & live (same caveat). As with all gear, you should always try out stuff yourself to see how you get on with it - different gear suits different people.
For the record, I think the Vetta II is a very impressive piece of technology. I really wanted to like it as last year I had the chance of buying a second-hand one cheap from a friend of mine who was selling his with the floorboard and he loaned it to me for a week to put it through its paces before making a decision. The specification is brilliant and the effects are very good indeed. Aside from the complex interface, which is fiddly but I probably would have got used to, the bottom line was that I simply didn't like the amp modeling which I found harsh, 2-dimensional, and lacking in warmth & tube-like response no matter how I tweaked it. Programming it was a pain, and the knobs moved with the amps vibration which was a nuisance. I took it to a band rehearsal - its certainly a very loud amp, but even the band members preferred my Valvetronix (our bassist who's a pro-player actually hated the Vetta), so it wasn't just me.
It's a lot of fun with an enormous tonal range, tons of effects, and it has good hi-gain metal amp models, but as I'm not a metal player & I don't use that many effects, these features didn't attract me. The classic amp models ala Marshall, Vox, Fender, Mesa etc were IMHO lacking & for me that was fundamental & why I didn't go for it.
Just my opinion. If Spaivxx likes it & the amp suits him, then that's great.
Rich ;)
Hey Rich, that Black Diamond Valvetronix amp looks interesting.
I was thinking of getting a Tonelab LE myself, since I once tested the first Tonelab (tabletop thingy) and really liked it back then, especially for the tubey feel which I haven't gotten out of my PodXT and now PodX3 yet. The dealbreaker back then was that I couldn't bypass the amp model section and that there was no "Hall" reverb.
Now I guess it's very likely that they come up with another new Tonelab with more amp models and updated amp modelling aswell, based on the BDV amps... Do you happen to know anything? ;)
Was there a big difference in modelling between the BDV amps and the Tonelab (LE)?
voxman — Sep 20, 2008DBM - Just as on the 'Blue' Valvetronix amps, the compressor in the TL/TLSE is in the pedal options, from which you can only use one at a time.
Well then, I guess I was wrong. I only use the Tonelab for recording, and it has been a very long time since I programmed it for the few patches I do use.
voxman — Sep 21, 2008I'm not & never have been a sheep that buys something because someone's told me its good, or not tried something because someone else doesn't like it.
Sorry 'Sheep - nothing personal mate! ;D ;D
Schneidas — Sep 21, 2008Hey Rich, that Black Diamond Valvetronix amp looks interesting.
Unfortunately I couldn't crank it when I played the prototype at LIMS, but I was definitely impressed with what I heard. However, rather than a complete redesign, Vox took a half-way house approach. The advantage of this is that it will (hopefully) keep the cost realistic. Unless the final version is altered from the prototype, the big downsides are: -
1. No patch-naming facilities. No-one is going to remember 128 patches by number, which defeats the purpose
2. Although there are now 2 pedal sections, the wah-wah and compressor are still in the first pedal section. They really should have made both of these global
3. The power-selector is now programmable for each patch. Whilst that may seem like a good feature, if its at the expense of an easy to use global control, then that's problematic for gigging. I can't confirm this yet, as there simply isn't enough info on the amp yet, so I hope the global option is still there.
I was thinking of getting a Tonelab LE myself, since I once tested the first Tonelab (tabletop thingy) and really liked it back then, especially for the tubey feel which I haven't gotten out of my PodXT and now PodX3 yet. The dealbreaker back then was that I couldn't bypass the amp model section and that there was no "Hall" reverb.
Now I guess it's very likely that they come up with another new Tonelab with more amp models and updated amp modelling aswell, based on the BDV amps... Do you happen to know anything? ;)
Inevitably it will follow, but I think it will take a while. The BD isn't out until early 2009, and the usual 'pattern' is for Vox to launch the flagship (the 200w combo) and if that's successful then I'd expect to see a smaller variant (perhaps a 50w version) and a 'Head'. I'd then expect to see an upgraded TL follow. But I think it may be 12-24 mths.
Was there a big difference in modelling between the BDV amps and the Tonelab (LE)?
Yes - there's much more processing power and the modeling architecture, EQ, and the number of amps & effects modeled is different.
The other amp to watch out for is the Peavey Vypyr. The SS versions are very competitively priced with some nice features, and they've made a clever move with their sexy looking full floorcontroller only costing £99 - half the price of the Vox/Line 6 equivalents. Prices aren't yet available for the 60w & 120w tube versions, but if they live up to the hype, the BD could have a tough time, as could the new VT (the new upgraded 'chromes' 2). Last I heard, the BD was likely to have a street price of just under £1,000. I'm certain the Vypyr tube 120w will be a lot less than that, so I'd guess that the BD price will be lowered to have a chance of competing.
But in the current economic climate, all companies are going to have to be very competitive if they're going to successfully persuade customers to part with their even more hard-earned cash. And their back-up service is going to be an important factor too.
Rich ;)
Just a thought Spai....have you looked at the Boss ME-50 floorboard? It has a bunch of stomps, a bunch of effects, a decent wah, and a compressor. And all of these work completely independent of each other.
You can program patches, or set in it stompbox mode and just stomp (which is how I use mine). I love the hell out of mine :)
voxman — Sep 21, 2008IMHO don't touch the Vetta II with a barge-pole. It's awful to use & it still sounds digital. It may have bells & whistles galore, but my AD120VTX kills it for valve tone & feel - the Vetta lacks valve warmth & response.
I call bullshit...but I can only say that it's my personal experience with Vetta in comparison with some real Marshalls and Fenders (and a Bogner, strangely enough).
I say Vetta is really easy to use, and to say it sounds "digital" instead of really describing what you don't like about the sound tells us something, since in my almost 10-year experience with live performance with modeling gear, almost all people who say something sounds "digital" wouldn't even say it sounded digital if they didn't know what they were hearing was "digital". It's usually only when you physically PLAY something that's digital that you notice the tonal difference, because the response IS different. That might be an issue for him, but we already know he had to adjust to the ToneLab for that anyway. I think the Vetta sounds more like an amp...but again, that's just my opinion.
I think Spaivxx should feel free to try a Vetta if he can...he'll most likely get all his money back from his purchase if he has to re-sell it.
It's also one of the fastest-to-set-up rigs I've ever used.
I will say the Peavey Vypyr (despite its MORONIC name) is intriguing...I always liked their transtube stuff, I know they know how to make Solid State sound good.
Tripper
Oh yeah...and if you want more stomps, you could always consider a Line 6 M13 - I've heard nothing but raves from my friends who have tried it.
Tripper
having owned the podxt and tonelab, id say they both have about the same strenghts and weaknesses. i didnt feel like i was playing a tube amp with either product but they can both sound fantastic.
i cant imagine the vetta ii sounding any worse than the vox. I had a vox amp and it died in 2 days but it had killer cleans and crunch sounds, the metal stuff suked bad though.
i bought a spider jam amp back when they got released and i love the crunch "green" model. I love the amp its a blast and has some great sounds.
I have actually owned 3 Vettas, but never gigged with one. I liked a lot about the amp, but at the time had a collection of Mesa/Boogie amps and rack gear so the Vetta, each time I got one, ended up being the step child of the bunch. I got my first one when Georges Music refused to honor their return policy after I dropped over 3 g's in there. They would not give me cash back for some purchases but would give me store credit so a Vetta Combo, FBV, an Ibanez K7 and some acoustic guitar came home with me.
The other two Vettas I had were the heads, which I bought at very nice prices on eBay. Sold them for a profit each time. I have some band practice recordings that were made with both Vetta and a Mesa rack system (Triaxis, 2:90), both running through the same set of 4x12 Boogie cabs. Listening back, I can't tell which amps are on which recordings. I have some recordings with the same band of the same material where I recorded with a Pod XT Pro, direct, it is obvious. I also have some Flextone IIXL recordings of that band and some with my old Peavey 5150, all the same band recorded within a period of about a month. For the stuff we were doing, heavy shit in drop A on a 7 string, the 5150 is the best.
Now that I do not own a whole assload of gear, a Vetta looks like a very appealing piece of gear. I have watched 2 combos sell on eBay for under $700, including the FBV longboard. If I can find a deal like that, while the funds are available, then I think I'm there.
that does seem like a good deal... especially with the long board and all.
DreamTheaterRules — Sep 22, 2008that does seem like a good deal... especially with the long board and all.
Yeah, it'd be a piece of cake to make his money back just by selling them separately.
Tripper