The Watering Hole

I know this isn't right yet, but I would be grateful if anyone here has any constructive criticism as to which frequencies to push or pull to get a more accurate match.


This is a profile of my JCA20H with a different CAB.   It definitely isn't right, but it is fairly close, so I'm looking for the magic frequencies that would make is closer.  The JCA20H is probably the wrong choice as it has far too much treble.  This is with the "real" amp's treble nearly completely off !

Any ideas?

http://soundcloud.com/jonguk/kemper-led-zep-live-tone

my tone test starts at 11 seconds (ish)

Something like this I guess:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28509587/jon.mp3

I applied the curve to the all track and of course drums lost the presence as well.

Can you send me both the BT and the lead track separately Jon? I can have a very close match with some vst plugin tricks. And I post you the curve as well.

Doesn't the Kemper have a model of one of the right amps already?  Look for something with a 6973 tube power section, a Univox, Valco, Supro, etc.

I like your tone on this.  

Here ya go.  

thanks

Jon

charger — Feb 16, 2012Doesn't the Kemper have a model of one of the right amps already?  Look for something with a 6973 tube power section, a Univox, Valco, Supro, etc.

I like your tone on this.  

None of those amps are in there as "stock", which is a shame, especially the supro as I really would like one of those (a real one)

There are some Marshalls but they don't sound right to me.  

I have found that the only way I can "craft" a tone by any recorded media is to use a reference track as my starting point, otherwise I always pump far too much bass into it, when in reality a guitar tone in a mix is very very light on bass.    This is teaching me a thing or two if nothing else !

I don't think it's all that far off from the intro pagetone... different, but still good. it's quite a bit louder though, makes the high end stand out - tried lowering your level in the mix? might sound closer.

ironsheep — Feb 16, 2012I don't think it's all that far off from the intro pagetone... different, but still good. it's quite a bit louder though, makes the high end stand out - tried lowering your level in the mix? might sound closer.

Yes, I always have that problem when mixing too.  I start to push up one level, then another, then another and before you know it I have no headroom left.....still so much to learn !

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28509587/jon2.mp3

Zonta — Feb 16, 2012http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28509587/jon2.mp3

getting close in some respects but further away in others. Has more body but has lost the "sizzle"  I think I will try this again with a different amp and cab as the cab is sounding a bit hollow, which is probably my fault as I adjusted the cab parameters.

What is the EQ curve you used by the way.

Jon forget the previous attempt. I used a totally different technique and it is pretty close this time.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28509587/jon3.mp3

Let me know. I'll send you the plugin and the fxp bank so that you can apply it with 2 clicks.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28509587/jon3_reverb.mp3

The exact same curve as above yet I added a bit reverb to get closer to the room ambiance of the original.

It's late here now so I will give it a listen in the morning.

IMO a bit less of volume on the lead track and a bit less of highs (a sort of soft V shape in the  2500-5000 range) and you should be very close.

Ciao,
Marco

Hey Jon, have you tried looking at the real deal with a Spectrum Analyzer then comparing it to yours?  That might help to match peaks and valleys (or not! LOL!).

Some good tips here thanks chaps !

I will start from scratch on this again later and have another go.

OK, here's another crack at it.   I think the only way to get this spot on is to go back to 1973 and profile the amps as they were setup and mic'd up at Madison Square Garden  :)

http://soundcloud.com/jonguk/kemper-led-zep-live-tonetest3

that's very close indeed!

drop the panned echoverb and throw in just a little medium hall and I think it'd sound ridiculously close.

ironsheep — Feb 17, 2012that's very close indeed!

drop the panned echoverb and throw in just a little medium hall and I think it'd sound ridiculously close.

You don't now how much that has pleased me !   My ears are just about shot trying to get close to the sound so I've lost all perspective now of whether it is good or not, so I'm glad you say it's close.

The best thing for me with the KPA is the additional "monitor" output.  You can independently switch off the cab and EQ this output and then go into a power amp and real guitar cab.  This makes the playing experience really good and of course the recording experience is the KPA sound with cabs/effects on, which is brilliant because I really do have to have the guitar sound coming out of a real cab when I'm playing.

yeah that's very close for sure, a bit overeffected maybe but I pictured Bonzo throwing sticks at you :)

Excellent, Jon, what amp Profile did you use?

Agree with Sheep, maybe a little less/different verb will bring the amp a little closer to the 'front'.

Lance — Feb 18, 2012Excellent, Jon, what amp Profile did you use?

Agree with Sheep, maybe a little less/different verb will bring the amp a little closer to the 'front'.

Actually there's no reverb on this, I am using a very short delay.

KrankZilla — Feb 18, 2012yeah that's very close for sure, a bit overeffected maybe but I pictured Bonzo throwing sticks at you :)

LOL  ;D .    Actually he may well have done because I do have one of Bonzo's drumsticks.  He threw his sticks into the audience early seventies and a friend of my brother caught one of them and gave it to me sometime around 1975 (I would have been about 14 at the time).  I still have it up in the attic.

Jon — Feb 18, 2012[quote author=KrankZilla link=1329413318/0#18 date=1329537193]yeah that's very close for sure, a bit overeffected maybe but I pictured Bonzo throwing sticks at you :)

LOL  ;D .    Actually he may well have done because I do have one of Bonzo's drumsticks.  He threw his sticks into the audience early seventies and a friend of my brother caught one of them and gave it to me sometime around 1975 (I would have been about 14 at the time).  I still have it up in the attic.

I'll give you 1450 Euros for the stick.  ;D

Yeah the delay is exactly what Page used, just maybe a hint too much of it (mix versus dry)

use it in front of the amp... and no stereo panning - very pagey.

*for the guitar army... you need an army! multi-track 'em ;) :)