The Watering Hole

This is my first bounce to disk mix in pro tools.

I'm struggling with the compression at the master fader, not sure if I have this cracked or not.

Comments please, good and bad points.

Not sure what you are looking for exactly.  It sounds good to me.  Is there a particular struggle it is causing for you?  I usually limit at the master fader, but do most of my compressing on a track-by-track basis, and go for pretty light compression on the master bus.  I might actually have some time to post an example tonight...

I think my ears are burned out tonight, so I was really after opinions to see if it sounds ok or not, as I've listened to it so many times that I've lost all perspective of it completly.

After a day playing with the full version, it really is brilliant, and really is so damn easy to use.  It doesn't look easy on first use, but once you get your head around their way of thinking it really is quite simple.

Yes, an example mix would be good.

By the way, do you usually track in wav or aif ?

wav. more compatible with other stuff if i need to move tracks around.

Sounds good to me too !!

Ciao !
Marco

I've been playing around with this some more. It seems the trick is (as charger said) use compression on the individual tracks and then a limiter on the master fader....and Buzzmax seems to work really well for that.

In my efforts to learn as much as I can about Pro tools, here's the latest effort. Just a complete improv noodle with some "mad" drums added.

Used some compression on each individual track. The reverb is pristine space on an aux buss.
Finally I used BuzzMax on the master fader.

One day I might even record a proper song with all this gear  

Sounds good to me, Jon. Really nice.  8-) You should look into crossgrading to Superior 2.0. It has a killer Ludwig and Singerland snare perfect for this kind of rock.

The — Aug 30, 2008Sounds good to me, Jon. Really nice.  8-) You should look into crossgrading to Superior 2.0. It has a killer Ludwig and Singerland snare perfect for this kind of rock.

I just had a look and listen at the toontrack site of Superior2.0......and then ordered it immediately. Absolutely fantastic sounds a big improvement on EZdrummer.

I always felt like a kid at Christmas when I got into a mood similar to where Jon is right now.

Picking up all sorts of new toys and finding each blows away what I was using before - it's a great feeling!

(Until, like Christmas, you get the bills and have to start paying things off!  ;) ;D )

CraigBert — Aug 30, 2008I always felt like a kid at Christmas when I got into a mood similar to where Jon is right now.

Picking up all sorts of new toys and finding each blows away what I was using before - it's a great feeling!

(Until, like Christmas, you get the bills and have to start paying things off!  ;) ;D )

You are absolutely right there.  These last couple of days have given me a huge boost to my interest in all of this.   The thing that started this all off again was the recent abillity to play guitar again after 7 months of not being able to play because of my fucking frozen shoulder.  Still not right, but now I can actually hold a guitar again it has given me lots to look forward to.  I love it !

Sounds good to my ears.  

If you still have SONAR available to you, could you possibly record something small with both packages?  I'm still trying to understand the "sounds better" part.

Of course, if you don't have SONAR or just don't want to waste the time that's totally understandable!  :)

CraigBert — Aug 30, 2008If you still have SONAR available to you, could you possibly record something small with both packages?  I'm still trying to understand the "sounds better" part.

Of course, if you don't have SONAR or just don't want to waste the time that's totally understandable!  :)

I'll see if I can give this a go this week.

Can't wait!

Had any time for this Jon?  Since Richard posted that he and Paul are still using SONAR, I'm more curious about any sonic improvements that Pro Tools provides.

CraigBert — Sep 10, 2008Had any time for this Jon?  Since Richard posted that he and Paul are still using SONAR, I'm more curious about any sonic improvements that Pro Tools provides.

Like anything, I think this is perceptual.  However, I can give you some excellent advice.  Use what you know and like.  Everything else is very secondary.

True, but that's where my question comes in.  I know I've gone over the history before, but the entire reason I use SONAR is that I started with Cakewalk v1.0 (and actually talked with Greg Hendershot a few times during the initial debugging and beta testing).  From there I kept upgrading (and upgrading, and upgrading) until I'm where I am now.

Needless to say, I'm pretty comfortable with SONAR.

Now if something else SOUNDS better, that doesn't just make it an alternate usability choice, but something you should want to get and learn purely to produce better recordings.

Which brings me back to my original issue:  Does it really sound better?

I think you'll have to be the judge of that.  Get a cheap M-Audio card on Ebay, and try PT out.  I doubt you'll find a huge difference in a bounced file from either system.  I think PT handles playback better, so maybe that's where Jon is noticing a difference.  I know I used to get pops and shit in Sonar.  Even with 2 Gigs of RAM, PT is clean as a whistle.

But on your system, Sonar and your Layla may perform as well or better than what I'm using.

There are a lot of variables between systems and setups.

hrm... I have only  gotten pops and cracks during playback when I was taxing the system of the computer.  I mean if you tax the system up to 90% of the CPUs power your should expect issues.

So, yes you have to have a system that works well and is powerful.  Also I think you have to have a system that isn't a multi use machine, nothing other than Audio work and light word processing is done on my DAW machine, it doesn't touch the net not so much for security, but more its one less system that needs to be active in the profile.  That is what works best for me.  Not everyone can have a machine that is setup that way, I understand that.

As far as PT and maxing the system out, I will say I think it may handle excessive audio tracks, busses, and effects better on a lighter powered machine.  If that is a consideration of yours, then it is something to consider.

But to me, Sonar works well for my workflow  i.e. integration of midi and effective use of Staff editing opposed to pianoroll editing.  Might seem like a small thing to some, but to use PT I would have to have a second program doing my Midi work and editing, because I hate working with Pianoroll, it is difficult for me both visually and also brainpower wise.  For me Sonar offers what I want, so I use it over PT.

But that is me, if you work better in piano roll, don't have a computer that is geared towards being exclusively a DAW, then probably PT is more correct for you.

That is a choice that is totally owner specific.

Oh well, it's a bit of a moot discussion right now anyway.  If I end up with any money for music gear I'd probably get other things first like better hard drives and even more RAM for my PC.  I have a dual-server (1.3ghz) box right now that's dedicated just to music.  I don't want it to see the Internet, but it probably will because I sometimes need to transfer things using something other than sneakernet ( ;) ).  Since it didn't sell, I also still have a Waves AP-44-M audio processing accelerator (still new and shrink-wrapped) that should make real-time use of Waves plug-ins pretty fast.

I'm just going to be happy once I know I can stay in this house and can set up the studio!

I think Deano is probably right in that protools is definitely more stable than sonar.  My "studio" pc is only used for Audio, so no problems with anything else causing resourse issues etc as I use separate pc's for development, web surfing etc. We have 5 pc's here at home all perform different functions and all very high spec machines with 3 gig of ram.

Again I think Deano is correct in that the pops and clicks in sonar whilst trying to mix down maybe has contributed to my comments.   It does amaze me, however, that when running pro tools with many RTAS plugins running on all tracks and on the master buss, that it hardly uses and processor resource at all and play back is a smooth as silk.  I have never been able to achieve that with Sonar.  I also had used Sonar simply because I started with CAKEWALK version 1 on the Amiga 500 many years ago and stuck with Sonar all the way, but to me, pro-tools has blown it out of the water completely. Only wish I had switched sooner.

The main thing Jon is that you are happy now, and that makes for easier production of your tunes.  Which in turn results in a better outcome.

Digidesign did make some big leaps in RTAS efficiency between 7.1 and 7.2, I think.  I've noticed the same thing... running tons of plugins hardly seems to tax the system at all.

Ligerborn — Sep 11, 2008The main thing Jon is that you are happy now, and that makes for easier production of your tunes.  Which in turn results in a better outcome.

Aye, tis very true! - the only problem now is the lack of time !