46 posts
Two guitar tracks - clean & lead, no drum no bass.
One track is...oh well, it's your turn ! :)
Here the misterious (maybe not ;) ) tracks.
http://www.lwbguitars.net/Music/Sound_1.mp3
Ciao !
Marco
Backing is a modeller, and lead track is mic'ed.
Same guess as charger.
Nice playing.
Chargers ears are Gold. Fingers ears are plated. ;D
I'll listen in a bit.
Just to be sure of the rules, does one track HAVE to be of each or could they both be the same (i.e., both modeled or both mic'ed)?
That's some sweet playing, Marco. I'm with the other guys, clean guitar = modeller, lead = mic'ed amp.
CraigB, I am sorry ... I posted the song before I read the rules suggested by Finga ...
As 1st test, there are no rules .. ;)
Ciao !
Marco
I agree.....backing is modeler and lead is real.
Lwb — Aug 26, 2008CraigB, I am sorry ... I posted the song before I read the rules suggested by Finga ...
As 1st test, there are no rules .. ;)
Ciao !
Marco
So both guitars
could be real OR modeled then?
Well, ok then. They're both modeled. ;)
End of the game ?
Deano ??
I reckon both are modelled too!
...AND THE WINNERS ARE:
CraigB and JonG !!!
Both tracks are played thru Amplitube 2.
....for sure I don't have golden ears..... I certainly would have replied: bt=amp, lead=modelled !!! :)
Ciao !
Marco
just listening through cheap PC speakers (and initially thinking there was one of each) I'd have guessed BT=modeler, Lead =amp. I'll get the headphones out tonight and take a closer listen.
Now the question is...
Why you (all) have thought that the BT was modeled ?
What sound "strange" to your ears ? I ask you that because I'm not able to hear nothing strange on it.... no artifact, no "plastic sound", no fizz..... Am I becoming deaf ??? :-[
Thanks !
Ciao,
Marco
I'll offer a better educated thought tonight after I check it out with the headphones and better yet, plug the Mbox in as my sound card. But my first thoughts were that the lead tone was good, and the rhythm tone not bad but a bit thin. Again, through PC speakers at work, so ...
Lwb — Aug 27, 2008End of the game ?
Deano ??
Who gives a shit what it is! It sounds excellent. Play what ya got! :D
Lwb — Aug 27, 2008Now the question is...
Why you (all) have thought that the BT was modeled ?
What sound "strange" to your ears ? I ask you that because I'm not able to hear nothing strange on it.... no artifact, no "plastic sound", no fizz..... Am I becoming deaf ??? :-[
Thanks !
Ciao,
Marco
Mine was a complete guess. I knew it was one or the other
Lwb — Aug 27, 2008Now the question is...
Why you (all) have thought that the BT was modeled ?
What sound "strange" to your ears ? I ask you that because I'm not able to hear nothing strange on it.... no artifact, no "plastic sound", no fizz..... Am I becoming deaf ??? :-[
Thanks !
Ciao,
Marco
I was expecting that the test involved one modelled guitar and one amped and I think most people were until Craig asked the question.
So it was a case of having to guess at one or other.
The point of the whole golden ears challenge is to make real amp vs modelled takes so we have the same player doing roughly the same thing on the same track to see if people can actually guess right more often than not.
Much like the softubes vintage test you did recently.
I only asked the question because I thought both were modeled.
Then it will interesting to see how well you do in the challenge if it ever takes place for real.
;)
The whole point in the challenge is for those who record using both amps and modellers to see if listeners can pick the difference in the end result
i.e. Same player, same track, same part done twice - one sim one real.
Not which one is the best tone or playing.
But which take was done with what kit ?
i.e. is the "Golden Ear" community a reality or a myth.
Be interesting - at least find out those that do have the ears over those who claim them. :)
I can put together a 30 second backing track for this if you like (bass and drums).
Will a blues thing do or any preferences?
Ok, here we go!
Amp & modeller (one or two L ?? ), two takes on the same BT, same solo (more or less :) )
http://www.lwbguitars.net/Music/Amp_1.mp3
http://www.lwbguitars.net/Music/Amp_2.mp3
I've done my best trying to model my amp on this clip.. :)
Ciao !
Marco
PS. I can post the same clip of the BT...let me know !
Been thinking - there is no way things can be organised here.
But also there is no reason this needs to be an FNJ format as the challenge is only to guess between the two takes any single player makes.
So It could be any number of Bass n Drum BT covering tempo and styles.
And people can make their own up if they prefer.
Only rules are for each player
1./ Use the same BT tracked twice - you can do as many guitars as you like
BUT one clip is only modelled guitars, the other clip is only mic'd.
2./ keep clips around the 30s mark give or take.
It also means that the clips will be different and cover more styles, which makes listening easier doing the comparisons.
No organisation required - creative chaos - do what you want - just stick to the rules - absolutely #1. (modelled bass allowed)
rule #2 is more about avoiding listening to dozens of takes of the same track at length , which might not be such a big deal if everyone is making different tracks - it can be dropped in fact if that is the case - if it is original - your clip can be as long as you want.
Ideally every player does a pair of takes on an original piece they invented.
But go ahead Jon and do a Blues Bass n Drum one to get things rolling.
Maybe we can make a bunch between us and let people grab what they prefer,
people who do their own thing - well post their Drum n Bass BT for others.
I think I'll use some Bonham outtakes. :)
A lack of rules makes it far more likely to work as you can't really break any apart from #1
And if you break #1 then who really cares anyway.
The vote and results.
ideally each player would pm the info somewhere before - but that requires organisation - so fuck that, rely on people to fess up on the thread at a certain point,
votes - post your choices up front - after the fact "I knew that" gets you the joey golden ear award for tone. :)
Lwb — Aug 27, 2008Now the question is...
Why you (all) have thought that the BT was modeled ?
What sound "strange" to your ears ? I ask you that because I'm not able to hear nothing strange on it.... no artifact, no "plastic sound", no fizz..... Am I becoming deaf ??? :-[
Actually, it's because it sounded "too good to be true" to me. I have recorded a lot of amps and never, ever got that much brightness and treble out of a clean guitar recording while keeping it smooth and not piercing like that. Also, the backing track had some serious stereo depth and richness, which I did not hear in the lead take.
First off, regardless of being modelled or not, beautiful playing Marco.
Right from the intro I thought the first guitar was modelled, the lead guitar I don't know could be, but then again maybe not.
To be perfectly honest, a lot of time, when listening, I couldn't answer one way or the other. But when I play modeller Vs valve, I'd back myself to know the difference. The modelled stuff always seems to have a grain going the wrong way, (for want of a better description).
Lwb — Aug 27, 2008Ok, here we go!
Amp & modeller (one or two L ?? ), two takes on the same BT, same solo (more or less :) )
http://www.lwbguitars.net/Music/Amp_1.mp3
http://www.lwbguitars.net/Music/Amp_2.mp3
I can't even hazard a guess, they both sound great. Two definitely has less gain, but since I don't know what your real amp is, I can't say that's any sort of "tell". To me, both sound real, or real enough, so even though I know one is a modeller, it doesn't bother me.
With a gun to my head, I'd say number 1 is the modeller, and number two is real. That said, I would also say that I prefer the tone of 1 to 2, and that the fact that it sounds so "good" is the reason I would pick it as the modeller.
Track 1 modelled
Track 2 amp
I dont care how you got it Marco, it sounds gorgeous.
I would guess Amp1 is amp.
Amp2 has the give away modeller sharp click pick attack.
But Amp1 is also more a 30ft away tone so it is hard to tell
Both are good tones. :)
Amp 2 is mic'ed. You can hear the ding of when you got an email or something. I guess the mic picked it up.
DM — Aug 27, 2008Amp 2 is mic'ed. You can hear the ding of when you got an email or something. I guess the mic picked it up.
LMAO!!! ;D
Despite the above my opinion is Amp 1 is real, but Charger has it right. If you can make either sound that good then who the fuck cares??! :)
:D :D
Well, there is a transient noise at the :33 sec mark. That said, it may be in the backing. Hard to tell. Amp 1 is majorly "fucked with" by adding room and delay. Are we hiding something? There is a sound in the Lower notes of amp 2 that makes me think it's real. Sounds more alive.
As soon as I heard amp 1 I thought modelled, which probably means it's the real thing. ::)
Thanks all for your comments..and your patience !! :)
The modeller I used was AmpliTube 2, the amp was the H&K Statesman 1x12 (dual EL84) thru SM57, no pedals, just the lead channel.
Amp_1.mp3 was the "modelled" take.
Finga noticed the different pick attack and he was right ! On the modelled take I've used a different pick: a thick Jazz Dunlop to soften a bit the more pronunced attack usually the modellers have ! :)
Ciao !
Marco
You tricked me into it - I changed my mind based on the pick attack.
:D
So what was the Ding??? Was it a fresh batch of Brushetta from the microwave? :D
Lwb — Aug 28, 2008
I've used a ...a thick Jazz Dunlop to soften a bit the more pronunced attack usually the modellers have ! :)
Damn - that is such a good idea.
The only thing that really bugs me about modellers now is the pick attack,
doh - so use a softer pick
actually, he said "thicker" so that's probably not softer. Try a different material as well.
It's ok I knew what he meant.
I meant softer as in use a pick that gives a softer attack -
not one that is necessarily soft as in material.
I've stuck with the using same kind of pick for so long now I never give it a thought and it is definitely a picky kind of pick - I generally don't like "soft" picks, but for modellers maybe that is the answer.
DM — Aug 28, 2008So what was the Ding??? Was it a fresh batch of Brushetta from the microwave? :D
;D ;D
...that's strange... no "ding" on the BT and no "ding" on the guitar part. I don't know how, but it could be happened during the rendering....
Fingers, I have probably 100 or so styles and sizes of picks. The material makes a big difference in tone and feel. If you've used one kind forever (I used to use one kind of pick and nothing else for years) maybe it's time to try a few alternatives.
What is your pick of choice?
p.s. I'm 100% with you on the "pick thing" with my POD and not liking it. I wonder if a nice, transparent stompbox comp in front of the XT would fix it. I'll have to try my Tone Press and see.
charger — Aug 27, 2008[quote author=Lwb link=1219703828/0#15 date=1219853911]Now the question is...
Why you (all) have thought that the BT was modeled ?
What sound "strange" to your ears ? I ask you that because I'm not able to hear nothing strange on it.... no artifact, no "plastic sound", no fizz..... Am I becoming deaf ??? :-[
Actually, it's because it sounded "too good to be true" to me. I have recorded a lot of amps and never, ever got that much brightness and treble out of a clean guitar recording while keeping it smooth and not piercing like that. Also, the backing track had some serious stereo depth and richness, which I did not hear in the lead take.
Thanks Charger !
Another little step in the long learning curve.. ;)
Ciao!
Marco
DreamTheaterRules — Aug 28, 2008Fingers, I have probably 100 or so styles and sizes of picks. The material makes a big difference in tone and feel. If you've used one kind forever (I used to use one kind of pick and nothing else for years) maybe it's time to try a few alternatives.
What is your pick of choice?
I don't really have a pick of choice, I never give much thought to it, I just use the ones I am comfortable with out of a bunch I have at any one time,
and that choice seems to be of the type that I have used forever - I just checked - the current one is some Peavey pick but that is not important.
Yeah - I need to check out some other types - see if it reduces that pickiness using modellers.