13 posts
Having tons of options is good and bad, it's good because anything you want to do can probably be done, but it's also bad because it causes brain overload trying to figure everything out!
Here's my situation:
I have three preamps, one stereo power amp, a G-Force effects unit, an GCX audio switcher (with Ground Control pedal board) and a mic pre (more than one, but for the sake of this question, just assume one). Add to this a mixer board and my Layla 24.
My goal: To be able to use the GCX to switch between preamps and to turn the G-Force on and off. Then, send a dry (mono) guitar feed plus a wet (stereo) guitar feed to my PC while sending a copy of the wet (stereo) feed to the power amp.
I should be able to put the guitar input (after any pedals) into the buffered input of the GCX and, using the Ground Control floorboard, pick a preamp to use then have the signal pass through the loop with the G-Force before sending clones to the board and the power amp. I'm thinking the first three loops of the GCX will each turn a preamp on or off, the next will turn the G-Force on or off and another will turn on and off the signal to the power amp. Ok, on to the questions...
Question 1:
The G-Force is meant to go after any or all preamps. However, my preamps have effects loops. Do you think there would be any difference on a preamp by preamp basis between using the G-Force in the effects loop or just putting the G-Force by itself after the preamp(s)?
Question 2:
Where should my mic pre go? Should this go in-between the output to the mixer board and the mixer itself? Does it go before the buffered input of the GCX? Does it go after micing my cab? (I.e., It isn't used for direct recording at all.)
Question 3:
Is there a better way, short of reaching back and swapping cables all the time, to use multiple preamps with one effects unit and one power amp for both live and recording use than what I'm trying?
Ok, I think I've realized the answer to question #2. The mic pre goes after the input for the DRY signal. The other pre amps (Mesa Boogie Rectifier Recording Pre, VHT Valvulator GP3 and Peavey Rock Master) should handle the increase of the cloned signal.
On another note, I just found my SoundTech TS6 which allows me to switch between six stereo speaker setups (or mono) after the power amp. This way I can simply push a button to change which speaker I want to use (I have a few 1x12's with different speakers in them).
man that GCX switcher is a handy thing, I wish I had one... My desired setup is similar to yours, except replace one preamp and power amp with my Krank amp - trying to get a cool setup where I can use my Engl and rockmaster preamps along with the Krank's pre section all switchable and ending up thru the krank power section. It looks doable with that device, with some sort of mutation of this setup I guess:http://www.voodoolab.com/gcxdiagrams/04-Multiple_Preamps_Stereo_Loops_Stereo_PowerAmp.pdf :drool
This gizmo may work for Derek's setup as well...
Dang you Craig! Now I want one....
as for your questions - others (Howie ;-P) can chime in about fx loops and buffers, etc... but I think you are fine with using the G force separately(not in the fx loops), it's definitely how I would go, and it will keep your wiring much more simple, you won't need to deal with the fx loops at all.
Not sure I understand question 2... Do you want to be able to use it as a direct in?
#3 - heck it seems like the perfect solution to me....
Hmm, looks like that thing is only controllable via the ground control... that takes it off my GAS list I guess, lol...
You CAN use the GCX with other floorboards, but I happen to also have a Ground Control so I didn't read too much of that section.
As for question #2, I used to have issues getting a strong enough signal to the Layla and many mentioned getting a mic-pre so I did. I've since learned that I had some other issues as well (like recording wet tracks as mentioned in the other topic) and that the guitar pre-amps should do the trick there. Of course, I could use the mic-pre (perhaps with an inserted compressor) to provide a better signal to the guitar pre's, but I think it will mainly be used to boost the dry signal to the board.
I get the whole "you must record the best signal you can" philosphy, it's the implementation that's taking some head scratching to figure out. I believe I own all of the correct out-board gear, now I just need to use it correctly (and not over use it of course! ;) ).
BTW - Cool layouts on those GCX setup pics. I'd never seen those before! (They are all nicely saved on my hard drive just in case. ;) )
Ok, I get your mic pre deal now, you need a louder signal to the DAW. You're right, you don't want the mic pre between the guitar and the guitar preamps.
So you are recording direct then? nothing miked? Are you using Rocket's cab impulses? That's what I do :)
If so, you can do a large number of things, like using the G-Force in the spdif dealy like we mentioned. If you have a strong enough CPU you can get your latency down low enough to actually monitor your daw tracks thru your cab impulse plug in (if your DAW offers this feature)... I recently got mine working with a low enough latency to work this way by freezing most of the other tracks before I record my guitar parts and also trimming the length of some of the impulses inside Perfect Space (my convolution plug in of choice). then I have aux sends on the track off to my verb and delay busses. works really well. You could do this (again depending on your DAW software) and have the G-Force on it's own buss or as a track insert if you want it for modulation fx...
Meanwhile, your power amp and cabs are used for cranking it up in the room if you want sustain/feedback.
The trick to all of this is splitting the signal after the guitar preamps - one signal goes to your DAW and the other goes to your power amp. In my poor man's setup, I am using my G Major on bypass to keep the signal dry, preamp out into the G Major mono/left input, left output to my mic pre input into the daw, right output back to fx return on my Krankenstein. It works well enough. I currently have a Lexicon MPX 500 sitting on my MOTU's spdif, think I will swap the 2 and use the lex as the line splitter, and the put the G Major into service so I can use it the same way I have said about your G-Force...
Your preamps may also have multiple outputs that you might be able to use for more routing options. You have a lot of good stuff there to use.
Heh, currently I'm recording "Howie Style," that is, not at all. I'm trying to take the time upfront to set things up correctly instead of having everything wired up and wrong (been there!).
I have several nice 1x12's with different speakers in them (Greenback, Vintage 30, Alnico Blue, etc.) so I know I'll want to mic things up (I have a few Shure's as well as an MD-421 so I can try multiple mic'ings - including using more than one distance at the same time). That said, there's no reason not to go direct as well. I haven't tried or know much about impulses yet, but I saved all of the discussions (and impulse files) that were discussed before Rocket disappeared (where IS he anyway??!).
Note that I also have another piece of rack gear that could help with the direct recordings, and that's a Groove Tubes Speaker Emulator II (25th Silver Anniversary Edition - whatever that means!).
When I didn't have access to my studio gear I took the time to find the parts that were missing. Now I'm trying to fit it all together! It's tough enough sometimes when you add one new part, but I'm trying to add a few...
As for my software, I'm using (at least) SONAR 2 but could upgrade to SONAR 8 for $99. My PC is a old dual 1.3ghz server box with at least a gig of RAM so it hopefully will be fast enough to monitor tracks with impulses in real time.
There's a LOT still to do but I'm thinking that some extra time thinking about this beforehand will save a lot of rework down the road (at least I hope so!).
My PC is a old dual 1.3ghz server box with at least a gig of RAM so it hopefully will be fast enough to monitor tracks with impulses in real time.
Dunno man, I'm thinking that's gonna be tight. Monitoring convolution at low latency takes a lot of juice. If it doesn't though, you're still set with all your real cabs and mics so it really doesn't matter - my small house with sick wife and 2 kids pretty much forces me into using the cab impulses to get anything done. Otherwise I'm waiting for weeks on end for the right time to record...
Hmm... Unfortunately it's about all I have to use at the moment. My main PC is already too polluted with work stuff (I NEED to get a dedicated work box once I can afford it - then it would be a tax deduction too). I do have a couple of old 1.7ghz boxes, but they have questionable memory (RAMBUS) and only one cpu while the other box has two 1.3ghz cpu's...
Heh, what PC setup is best for a home studio looks like a topic for another thread! :D
[Actually, I just started that thread, just not here! I put it in the Cakewalk Computer forum since that's what I use.]
Ok, using one of the blank GCX setup sheets, I created the following:
http://www.nwdreamer.com/Pics/MusicStuff/GCX-setup-1.jpgSince I have a stereo power amp (and even my speaker switcher is all stereo) plus I can make each channel of my amp different (Class A or AB, different voicings, etc.) and my G-Force outputs in stereo, I decided to use both channels.
I've also decided to give myself "dual amp" capability to a degree. On Channel A I currently only have the VHT GP3, but I have another loop available for a different pre amp (like my Rockmans). On Channel B I have both my Mesa Boogie Rectifier Recording Pre and the Peavey Rock Master. Channel A feeds the left input of my G-Force and Channel B feeds the right.
I then have the ability to turn either channel on or off, turn any of the pre amps on or off, or run more than one at the same time (though I wouldn't want both the Recto and the Rock Master going together). I can also turn either of the G-Force inputs on or off (either running these as stereo or mono-summed inside the G-Force).
I can "Y" off of the Guitar Out to have a completely dry signal sent to the board and I can also "Y" off of each channel after the pre-amp stage and send those to the board as well.
It might work - but I've definitely got a headache right now!
The mic pre goes... after your mic! Not sure why you would be using it as a DI (that is, essentially, what you are doing, right? Taking a guitar-level signal and converting it to line level?) I think, after trying to decipher it in two threads now, that your scenario is way overkill. Like I said in another thread, I believe simplicity is key. Make the process totally convoluted, and you will never record anything. What you have set up is a rig that would be perfect if you were nightly shows covering lots of different styles. As it is, you are not playing any shows, or doing anything live, and therefore, you can probably afford to focus more on simplicity of tone. Try plugging the guitar into the amp or preamp, and go from there. Use the FX in the fx loop. Choose one preamp to work with at a time, get good sounds out of it, then throw up a mic (or two, if you have multiple cabs) and record those mics, each as mono tracks, into your DAW. Then you will be getting somewhere.
Thanks for the comments.
My mic pre hasn't gone or been anywhere... yet. They're new and originally meant to address hitting my Layla with a better signal. I'm starting to get the idea better now.
As for the rack, it's going to be mostly for playing around with at first until I have anything to record. I want it to be really flexible to just try lots of things to see what I like (I know I like dual-amping though - especially that thick Rush sound with a cleaner tone matched with a crunchy one). I just want to be able to use the floorboard to go through everything instead of lots of cable swapping. I figured if I wire it correctly the first time then it would be usable for that as well as recording. It's just been too long since I've wired this type of stuff up! For the last four years I've been basically using my all-in-one Vetta II - no wiring required.
To be honest, most of my first playing around will be with all of my synth gear. Not only do I have some material I'd like to record there (and add guitars to later), but I want to thin that herd. I would have already done so, but I don't know what parts I want to keep yet.
