20 posts
Is there "really" a difference in sound after the so called "break-in" period or is this just in the "ear of the beholder"?
I would be interested in your thoughts on this for a couple of reasons.
1) In all my years of playing and with various amps, some that I had owned for many years and played very loud every week at gigs for several hours at a time, I can honestly say that I have never noticed the so called "melowing" of the speaker during this time.
2) In all the articles that I've read on this subject and particularly the "experts" on youtube, they all say it makes a huge difference but I've not found one recording yet with a before and after series of demos. Which is odd, particularly as sites such as Celestion claim it only takes 10 - 15 minutes of moderately loud playing with a fat clean tone to break in a speaker. There are then other "experts" who claim it takes 50 hours or more to break in a speaker.
Not trying to be controversial here, but I've never heard this major difference that some people talk about which brings me to the conclusion that it doesn't make a big sound difference to the speaker at all. As I understand it, the purpose of breaking-in a speaker is to loosen up the moving parts of the speaker so that the cone moves more freely, which on first thought sounds reasonable, but then even at very high volumes, a guitar speaker cone does not move with huge pumps of the cone anyway, try it for yourself, whack up the volume and play and look at the cone movement...not huge.
The thing that I think contributes to the myth is when players say that after playing through the speaker for many months it now sounds more mellow and better than when it was new.....does it really?, or is it just that your ears have got used to it?
Discuss.
When I first played the Tweaker combo at Guitar Center, I loved it. It was so dark and warm sounding. The EQ was set bass-noon, mid-noon, treble-3 o'clock.
When I got my Tweaker combo home, brand new, I set the EQ the same and it was very very bright. For months I ran it at 1 oclock, noon, 9 o'clock. Over time the treble has been creeping up. It's now at noon, just below noon, and 1 oclock, bass to treble. Some of this is down to the room sounding much different than guitar center. Some of it is definitely down to the speaker defirming, and getting softer. that's the best way i can describe it.
my experiences...
g12h30 - way harsh before break-in... somewhat mellower over time (not too much) - shortish break-in.
t75's - crappy (buzz/nasal) when fresh... then rather nice after quite awhile (a few weeks of high db usage). I use these now, really like them.
lead80 - stiff and cringeworthy at first... then really awesome after a few hours... then shorted out.. :(
v30 - pretty sweet at first... then sounded like shit after a while - I might have fried it via overload, it has serious cone cry type issues... w/e, I don't like it.
anyways, I can't prove anything, but I do think there is something to the whole break-in deal. who knows though, I could be deluded... I like t75's... ;)
Yeah speakers are hard/crisp sounding at first, when they are broken in they seem to mellow out. I put in an Eminence Tonespotter in my HRD and for the first few months it was a bit harsh but after that it mellowed out.
Interesting: When the G12H30 arrives I will do a test recording as a fresh spanking new speaker and I will take a photograph of the amp settings. Then after several hours (high output) use I will do another recording and see if anything really has changed or whether it is just my perception of change which may well simply be familiarity.
Should be interesting.
For an even better test, if you have a snippet of guitar recorded that you can reamp, send it through the new speaker (saving the amp settings as you mentioned) then, later, reamp the same snippet using the exact same settings and see how much different the resulting wave file is. :D
CraigBert — Apr 27, 2011For an even better test, if you have a snippet of guitar recorded that you can reamp, send it through the new speaker (saving the amp settings as you mentioned) then, later, reamp the same snippet using the exact same settings and see how much different the resulting wave file is. :D
Yep, good idea, I have an impedance matcher for reamping. Use the same guitar performance (I use the term loosely) the same amp and same amp settings, same speaker brand new and then later after break in period.
Perhaps I should make a video about it where I talk for 10 minutes and then forget to give the audio demos :-)
Jon,
it is real, but not consistent among different speakers. Some speakers are known to take longer to break in than others. Some are known to change considerably, some hardly at all. It depends on the speaker and more specifically the cone.
The Weber site had (probably still does) a lot of good info on this from Uncle Ted himself. He was describing the difference in no dope, light dope, etc. and how it affected tone and durability. Quick overview: more dope = longer to break in, but longer lasting cone (if run louder). Light dope won't hold up as well to high SPL but with lower wattage amps will sound "broken in" when new and won't change as much, and with lower power will last a long time.
Then there's the cone itself. There was a VERY interesting few comments made at TGP by a guy about the thickness of the cone and how a particular thickness cone ALWAYS sounded better and lasted longer, but also took longer to break in as well. He listed specific speakers that had this thicker cone and there were lots of "wow, I have one of those and didn't even know it and it does sound better than my other speakers that are the same type" type comments. But it's been a year since I saw that thread and there was not a prolonged discussion about it.
In a nutshell, there's LOTS of good info at TGP on this topic. Go there, search around. See what you find.
Oh, parting shots... the general consensus at TGP is that Emi and the Warehouse speakers sound better out of the box, and change less than Celestions. THis is not due to the cone thickness thing I mentioned above though. The next level up is something like the Scumbacks, which seem to be a consensus "upgrade" from the Emi and Celestions.
Howie,
All interesting stuff there, but thus far in 35 years I still haven't heard the "difference" that lots of people talk about. Indeed I am of the opinion that many of them talk about it but have never experienced it, they are just jumping on the bandwagon. There may be some reality to this, but as I say, I've never heard the difference so my quasi scientific analysis of the new speaker will be interesting to see if there are any actual changes. The fact that no-one seems to have performed any scientific tests to back this up makes me suspicious but I will approach this with an open mind. In fact, if it can be proved that there is a difference then I will buy a hat and eat it :-)
there is likely some difference over time just because it's a mechanical device.
factory fresh joints soften up, materials flex, less stiffness as the parts wear, etc -> more bass, less brilliance.
I suspect it's similar to strings. except in that case they're "worn out" or "dead" instead of "broken in".
DreamTheaterRules — Apr 27, 2011Jon,
He was describing the difference in no dope, light dope, etc. and how it affected tone and durability. Quick overview: more dope = longer to break in, but longer lasting cone (if run louder). Light dope won't hold up as well to high SPL but with lower wattage amps will sound "broken in" when new and won't change as much, and with lower power will last a long time.
Sounds like we're back to talking about hemp again! ;) ;D
Jon — Apr 27, 2011Howie,
In fact, if it can be proved that there is a difference then I will buy a hat and eat it :-)
Make sure to get one that is broken in ;D
ironsheep — Apr 27, 2011
less stiffness as the parts wear, etc
A bit like getting old then ;D
All sounds plausible, but I've never actually "heard" the difference that everyone says is there that's why I'm having a hard time believing it.
A bit like religion !
I've definitely heard it. My amp was virtually unlistenable at the settings I first tried. We had the treble down on around 9 o'clock for weeks. I have never experienced a speaker that bright that over time, became so much more listenable. But also, I have only ever bought two brand new guitar speakers--one in the Tweaker and one in the SpiderValve. Everything else I've ever bought was well used.
I'm with Charger, but with a few more samples. No "scientific proof" but enough info to convince me.
I had a Warehouse Lead 80 in my High Octane cab when I went to WHStock a couple years ago. I bought it new. THe speaker was too bright for the amp. My hope was that there I'd finally get to crank it up for a whole weekend and it would be the great speaker everyone said it was. Matt and Charger still occasionally throw out barbs about my "ice pick" tone from that weekend. I eventually sold the speaker. A 7 watt amp may take years to break in a 75 watt speaker and in some cases may never do so. The guy I sold it too has it in a 50 watt combo. He told me that after several weeks of gigging live with it, it was notably smoother and better sounding. He finally got it broken in.
More specifically to me though, I had a crate powerblock for a while. I'd hook a CD player to it and play music through it when we left the house. I'd bury the cab in blankets and turn it up and play heavy music and start a CD when we were leaving the house. I did this with 3 different speakers that I bought brand new. In all three cases, the speaker sounded smoother and less brittle after a considerable pounding from the powerblock. Since I sold the PB, I bought two more new speakers. One I eventually sold because I just couldn't get rid of the ice pick highs. The speaker is not known at all for that, but I don't play loud enough at home to break in a bright speaker. It would take several years.
Also, having done the breakin in at least 4 different speakers, I can say, it's not always the same. Some get a little better. Some very little, but they do. Some go from unlistenable (or so bright that as Charger said, you have to turn treble and presence way down on the amp to even tolerate them) to great once their broken in.
There is a difference. Heck, ask Dave at Avatar. He sells some that go through a breakin process and he doesn't charge extra for it. He told me on the phone the Celestions need it and he wants a musician to be able to take his speaker, put it in the cab and do a gig that night. HE said he wouldn't do that with most new speakers.
DreamTheaterRules — Apr 28, 2011 There is a difference. Heck, ask Dave at Avatar. He sells some that go through a breakin process and he doesn't charge extra for it. He told me on the phone the Celestions need it and he wants a musician to be able to take his speaker, put it in the cab and do a gig that night. HE said he wouldn't do that with most new speakers.
These are the Hellatones that I mentioned above - I've got 'em and I like 'em! :)
John part of the problem could be that you've had it and the change was slight over time and you simply didn't notice it. If perhaps you had recordings from when you got speaker X till now you might notice a difference.
I myself find that some speakers break in faster than others. I tend to play loud and it doesn't seem to take that long for most speakers.
Currently playing a Tonespotter and when I got it I really loved it. It's gotten better over time. Didn't take long at all to break in. My other speaker is a legend series Emi that is similar to a V30. I thought it was a stiff when I got it and now I feel it's mellowed out quite a bit.
Fenderbender — May 06, 2011
Currently playing a Tonespotter and when I got it I really loved it. It's gotten better over time.
I took your advice FB and bought a Tonespotter for my HRD. It is one great speaker that no one else has ever heard of (at least I never heard of them before) Sounds as good as my broken in EVM 12L's, but it is much lighter and has a shallower cone so it don't rattle the tubes like the EV's. Great speaker, thanks for the heads up.
Glad I could help. I had gotten to a point I just didn't know what speaker I needed. Started buying and playing looking for that "THING" that I wanted to hear. Tonespotter came through for me. Glad you like it.