14 posts
I was talking to someone today about AQ - and they made the usual "liberal" style arguments that I tend to sympathise with.
Does it actually exist - probably unlikely as an organisation of command and control.
They have legitimate grievances - probably do.
They compared them to extremist Christians - I agreed.
etc.
But I got a shocked response from this person when I extended that analogy to the comparison of AQ with the KKK.
So do you think it is a fair comparison ?
I'll give my reasoning later
I never really understood what the KKK were fighting for, other than a simple hatred of people with black skin....
So, does that compare to AQ, I suppose it does as AQ have a simple hatred for "the infidel" which seems to be everyone except them !
edit: and both have a misguided religion as the driving force
Not sure, but what does this have to with Hitler and the Nazi's? ;)
As for your comparison, I can see some parallels in the dogmatic approach of both organizations (using that term loosely). However I think the Taliban would be a much closer match to the KKK since they also suppress subjects and not just kill them. There are similarities with the extreme Christians as well, except that they tend not to go out of there way as much to kill people like they did back in the Dark Ages. My business partner qualifies as an extreme Christian and, as far as he's concerned all Arab's should be shot (makes me wonder about his decisions when he was a Royal Marine in the Special Forces during the first Gulf War).
yeah....this:
http://www.jstreetjive.com/2010/08/kkk-plans-to-build-center-on-ruins-of.html
At any rate it's not an origal idea.
http://www.danielpipes.org/1218/confronting-terrorist-gangs-and-their-apologists
among others.
Still....I can see the corelations. Sure.
KKK members haven't really been willing to kill themselves in the service of their "cause".
Both are power wanting asshole groups.
I'm guessing KKK members drink.
Both hate other members of their own religion which aren't their "flavor".
The KKK stay in their own zones, they aren't going to any foreign land and they find little love outside of their "trust tree, in the nest".
Hal Kayda was able to send a group of mostly Saudis here to do their bidding and get us to stay out of Saudi.
They both use perversion of religion to back up their power grabs.
The KKK fuck virgins BEFORE death, but they are their cousins. Actually Hal Kayda members might arranged marry their virgin cousins but their pussy mutilations make it ok.
Hal Kayda may get money from gas/oil sales while some KKK members may work at gas stations.
The KKK was pretty much accepted here for many years, Hal Kayda has never been.
I hate Hal Kayda more because now I know the different sects of another religion I want to know nothing about.
It's interesting. The idea that an Islamic cultiural center could be built on land that is actually NOT "Ground Zero" but is fairly nearby and everyone would freak out. I guess these people need to sell the land that they own then, and go spread the good word that religious freedom exists in America, for Christians. There are at least three churches within two blocks of ground zero. Then the people we died for for the last nine years prolly won't feel to bad when they say religious freedom is okay in their country, as long as you are Muslim.
I don't know... I know several people that freaked out when they heard that the Muslims "wanted to build a mosque on ground zero." However, all of them are now ok once they found that it's actually an extension of a cultural center a few blocks away.
That said, I believe there would have been a serious uproar if the original quote was true.
The "Mosque" build has sadly become nastily politicized for the benefit of November. People seem more and more willing to just drop parts of the constitution they don't like. The control element stinks as does lack of innocent before guilty and "preemptive" type of thinking.
I can see where many of the families of the victims both dead and still dying would not like this tho. That shit was so horrific and so many people died that all points of view are possible for the families and the nation as well. Many people wont separate radical Muslims from the other shades...no matter what. I live in L.A. and I can tell you where churches of all types including Scientology, synagogues, Buddhist and Seik temples...and on and on. but I don't remember ever seeing a Mosque. I know they're here but I haven't knowingly seen one. The closest I've seen to a cultural center here is one of those hookah cafes opened up close by and I did a double take the first time I saw it. I've even seen what a sheik can do to a Bev Hills mansion...not good. I have only known one person who told me they were a Muslim...but then again, I don't really know what religion anyone is without golden symbols. It hasn't seemed to come up much. I can only imagine that it's even more separated in other parts of the country. It's easy to dislike those you don't know.
While I don't like or dislike anyone based on religion, I do this other thing based on an individual's personality type and actions, I don't think I'd ever go to a religion based cultural center....buuuuuuut, I thought we were all about freedom of religion and selling real estate.
I just saw someone on the news saying that some moderate moneymen are pulling out of the funding now because its become too controversial. They may not be able to get the cash together in the end. I guess we'll see what happens...
BINGEWOOD — Aug 24, 2010Stewart breaks down FOX re:Mosque funding in the first segment:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/mon-august-23-2010-rod-blagojevich
I didn't watch it but is that the one where Stewart says the Catholic Church shouldn't be allowed to build a church near a kindergarten? When I heard that I almost fell off my chair laughing.
Its from last night...worth the watch.
The discussion I was writing about in the opening post wasn't about the mosque and ground zero.
Started from discussing India and the partition with Pakistan (the guy is from an Indian background)
and went on to Islam vs other religions - i.e. tolerance etc.
All Abrahamic religions have in built intolerance in them
a side effect of monotheism - which is a mirage anyway - considering they all have angels and demons - a pantheon that is as polytheistic as any other religion.
And they all have had from time to time extremist interpretations of their variants of the "book"
who conflate cultural artifacts with their religion and in effect invent new cults.
and they all from time to time have holy warriors that back up the preachers.
AQ is KKK like, and so are the Taliban, who are the ignorant islamic fundy rednecks.
The religious regimes and policing in Iran or Saudi Arabia are like "Jim Crow" legal situation in the south.
Israel has similar things going on.
The thing that got me was that someone could be shocked by the comparison of AQ with KKK.
When they both lynch and murder people in disgustingly graphic and symbolic ways.
All intended to intimidate the "other"
Obviously state terror can be called in as a rebuttal.
people die so it's the same thing argument.
But it is something else - that is the subject of empires and conquest lead by powerful elites.
The power there is not primarily ideological but authoritarian - law and military imposition.
Roman/British and US empires are examples of that
as are Moor/Ottaman
As are the Nazis and Hitler (Bam - Godwins law ;) )
I am talking about civil type brutality - the type that is spawned from the ground up not the top down.
The kind of thing that leads to a Rwanda massacre.
The empires do make use of it - classic divide and conquer techniques.
So it does go hand in hand.
Reagan and Rumsfled were big old buddies of the Taliban and AQ.
They loved Saddam as well when it suited.
But taking out the geo-politic element.
you are still left with the prejudice of the man in the street that allows the potential for manipulation.
and that comes back to cultural religious stuff.
Hence the AQ == KKK thing.
If people were all paid up members of liberalism and atheism, then it would appear to be difficult to get them to oppress others.
I don't think so - liberal people are as easily enraged as any other, in many ways they are like an immune system that has had too few pathogens to deal with and are open to fits of allergy.
It would be tricky - but you could get them fighting thinking they had a noble cause in the name of idealism as well.
Tribalism is inate to human nature.
fingers — Aug 24, 2010Tribalism is inate to human nature.
Manimal loves his clubs.