35 posts
Looks like a deal may have been done, could still be derailed by the crazy wing of the republican congress.
The whole thing is bizarre, a republican administration presents a bill and it is attacked and filibustered by a group of renegade republicans.
And the democrats take this lead role to drive it through.
I think this shows how serious the situation is, dems in an election year should really leave the pubs to tear themselves apart over a republican bill and sit back and high five each other at the political gift.
There is no obvious political gain in doing otherwise.
UNLESS they felt that not passing the bill was too serious to contemplate.
And that should make people worried - you have just had a genuine suspension of politics over an issue.
The first that even the oldest here will have witnessed - you would probably have to go back to the start of WWII for a similar real bipartisan act
fingers — Sep 28, 2008 you would probably have to go back to the start of WWII for a similar real bipartisan act
Or at least as far back as the vote to invade Iraq and look how well that turned out. ::)
Iraq wasn't a bipartisan vote it was a rubber stamp, congress had a republican majority.
In anycase Presidents have the authority to order a war without consulting congress.
I can't think of another example where a president has relied on the support of the opposition to push through an emergency bill in the face of rebellion form his own party.
Be interesting to see what happens when the next president has to go back and ask for another Trillion dollars.
Anyone want to bet that McCain votes No? I think he may see this as his only real option to get the polls turned around.
Well, I think if there is another option available, other than tax payers having to foot the bill, it should be considered. McCain may vote no, who knows?
Want to make a bet that Obama votes present? ;D ;D
There is an alternative,
Let the the financial system collapse and people will pay for it with their savings, investments,jobs and houses in a free market panic.
The market is responding negatively on the rumor that there is a bail out ready to sign, or close to it. That seems to be an indication that this thing will fail.
We could face the economy crashing anyway, even with this deal, at a later time. This is no guaranty to fix the problem. Seems like a band aid on a cut to me. Eventually, the economy will have to reset itself, imo.
It would be nice to see this fix our problems though. I hope it does.
I think the hold up is the repubs scared that the dems will get credit for this. They want much more of a say, it seems. Screwed up broken bullshit government at it's best.
The market was responding negatively to the threat it was going to be rejected.
Well it has just been rejected.
Unknown territory - the US has effectively signalled that it is unwilling to support it's financial system.
Such an effective government we have! >:(
The market is responding negatively on the rumor that there is a bail out ready to sign, or close to it. That seems to be an indication that this thing will fail.
You and Palin out to get together and hash it out. ;D
Personally, I absolutely detest the idea of covering up for mistakes made by greedy wall street investors. I think so many people have been stupid about this, and greedy little pig fucks, that it's absolutely galling to me that the tax payers are expected to come in and fix the problem, especially because I do not believe we can survive forever as a country on credit without any real basis for our economy.
At the same time, I have two mortgages, kids in school, gas to pay for, etc. I cannot, with any measure of conscience, support the idea of allowing our economy to fail, given the monumental pain that will cause to the country. Most of us have never seen 15% unemployment. It may not seem like a lot, but that would be a human catastrophe that would make America look like a third world country in many ways. It would be absolutely horrifying.
The idea that taxpayers are being defended in this is a joke and the people who voted against it know it, they only have an eye on short term politics.
Wall street is fucked, they will pay for it, deal or no deal it hardly matters.
A witch hunt will ensue and the fat cats will end up being lined up and wrecked financially.
politically they will have no protection in the aftermath either way.
It is a straw man argument now, only used to avoid the point.
This is about salvaging what is left to keep the economy stable and functioning.
If the financial system collapses then the economy simply ceases to function.
This deal was a quasi market solution.
If it fails - ultimately the solution will end up with a nationalisation of the banking system with governments taking over ownership in an attempt to avoid a total banking failure and a depression.
It is a totally crazy situation and the "tax payer" they are claiming to defend has no idea of the world of shit that will rain down on them if things turn into panic and government is forced to act invoking special powers to act in the national interest.
A 15% unemployment rate - sorry, but that is the predicted gravity of the recession situation now - even with a successful rescue and stabilisation of the markets.
If things go really tits up - it is 1929 uncharted territory.
That is still far fetched to me, but everything that has happened in the last month seemed far fetched.
And what happens now - they go on a fucking holiday - the fuckers should be calling that off and getting back in session to make a deal.
Fun n' games, fun n' games.
pickmaster60 — Sep 29, 2008The market is responding negatively on the rumor that there is a bail out ready to sign, or close to it. That seems to be an indication that this thing will fail.
You and Palin out to get together and hash it out. ;D
Nahhh, wouldn't get nothin done. It would turn into a big fuck fest, that's all. Then her broke arm tough ass husband would whip my ass. Not much politics in all that. Just drama.
Seems others think our government is trash. The people who actually represent the people voted no. So they say.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080930/us_time/thebailoutdefeatapoliticalcredibilitycrisis
Hookbender — Oct 01, 2008Seems others think our government is trash. The people who actually represent the people voted no. So they say.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080930/us_time/thebailoutdefeatapoliticalcredibilitycrisis
http://www.raisingkaine.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=16053
http://www.drexeldems.org/?q=node/99
I don't really care for Scherer. I don't put much stock into what he says
Do you feel the same about Obama? How much stock you got with him? Do you believe everything he says to be true? ;D ;D ;D
I say it's an issue of principal. Let the palaces burn! If it were ma and pa little businesses do you think there would EVER be a bail out? Fuck no. The government would be like, "Learn to fucking run a business, BTW you still owe us taxes you little bitches."
But the second some fucking goobs run a multi billion dollar empire into the ground with shitty practices they get to walk away with millions of dollars of loot and not even get a slap on the hand. I think these fuckers should lose their assets and be in fucking JAIL.
I know I'm glad my retirement money isn't in the fucking stock market.....what a bunch of shit.
Fuck all those dudes. I don't care if the economy dumps. Because it will get rid of the shit and slime and we can start new....and just like the last time....we will bounce back.
Hookbender — Oct 01, 2008Do you feel the same about Obama? How much stock you got with him? Do you believe everything he says to be true? ;D ;D ;D
I want to vote for Bill Maher. ;D
I think Obama is more honest than McCain.
Can you make an argument otherwise?
Fender,
That's my gut reaction. I'm not so convinced that this is gonna be terrible thing they have said.
But then,I don't know enough about economics to make any kind of statement about it.
pickmaster60 — Oct 01, 2008[quote author=Hookbender link=1222642690/0#19 date=1222870305]Do you feel the same about Obama? How much stock you got with him? Do you believe everything he says to be true? ;D ;D ;D
I want to vote for Bill Maher. ;D
I think Obama is more honest than McCain.
Can you make an argument otherwise?
Not a legit argument, no.
But my opinion, some based on facts, is that both are not real honest. I guess I'd give the edge to Obama on this one. ;D I like what Obama says a shit load better than McCain. Not sure any politician could be labeled as honest. Can you name one? ;D
pickmaster60 — Oct 01, 2008Fender,
That's my gut reaction. I'm not so convinced that this is gonna be terrible thing they have said.
But then,I don't know enough about economics to make any kind of statement about it.
Credit is freezing up. That might not affect you, but it will if you want to buy a house, a car (with a loan) or take out a credit card. The rate that banks are charging each other right now to borrow money on a short term basis is so high as to be discouraging--thus, banks don't want to make loans of money that require that cash.
Does this affect you? Not tomorrow. But in a week, or a month, it might. Make no mistake about it, this country runs on credit, from the largest economic engine to the smallest shop on the corner.
Kinda like Obama said, if we had more time, we probably could come up with something better....but we don't....We have to do this, I agree. We have to at least attempt to right the ship. Other countries are doing similar things, bailing out banks and stuff. Kinda strange that we are the last to react.
charger — Oct 02, 2008[quote author=pickmaster60 link=1222642690/0#22 date=1222873832]Fender,
That's my gut reaction. I'm not so convinced that this is gonna be terrible thing they have said.
But then,I don't know enough about economics to make any kind of statement about it.
Credit is freezing up. That might not affect you, but it will if you want to buy a house, a car (with a loan) or take out a credit card. The rate that banks are charging each other right now to borrow money on a short term basis is so high as to be discouraging--thus, banks don't want to make loans of money that require that cash.
Does this affect you? Not tomorrow. But in a week, or a month, it might. Make no mistake about it, this country runs on credit, from the largest economic engine to the smallest shop on the corner.
Well,I didn't mean I don't think they should do it. I just felt that way when I first heard about it.
I don't use credit anymore. Except house and car. It would be bad to need a new car and not be able to get one.
Paid cash for the last one.
But I'm far from rich. I just don't like monthly payments and purchase things like lawnmowers tv's ect. cash.
I agree with the bailout.
Of all things :o I subscibe to David Ramsey's(Fox) thinking on money.
I know I'm an exception, still I'm conerned for those who would be affected sooner than me.
Do you have 6, 7, 8, months of emergency money set aside for bad times? ;D
Hookbender — Oct 02, 2008Do you have 6, 7, 8, months of emergency money set aside for bad times? ;D
Only 2 so far.
"Pray for them to resist a spirit of FEAR and to embrace WISDOM. Even if you don't like them or agree with them, pray for them and tell them you are praying for them. There is a spirit over this problem that must be broken. Also, most of the media personalities are afraid as well and that is affecting their reporting. Pray for fear to be removed from them; they are making this worse."
Do you subscribe to this? This is from his site.
And he disagrees with the $700 billion dollar buyout.
Seems you don't really fully subscribe to him and his money suggestions, right?
;D ;D ;D
Just messing with you. I know what you meant. Although you may need to at least find out what he says before you jump on his ship. ;D ;D
I'm practicing on you. ;D ;D
See how it feels. ;D
Do I need to lecture you on how to post and what to say in your post? ;D
I knew he didn't agree with it..
I was watching him and he was talking about small businesses that needed loans for payroll.
He thought that any small business that needed loans for payroll had a huge problem already.
Yeah,I know he's a christian guy. I've read his books and listened to him for years.
I don't think Americas economy should be so tied to credit.
Especially consumer credit.
It's a disease that can ruin you. ;D
It's so much less stressfull without monthly payments.
I don't like him because he's against me living above my means, with credit. ;D ;D
There is a spirit over my credit. ;D ;D
Hookbender — Oct 02, 2008Do you have 6, 7, 8, months of emergency money set aside for bad times? ;D
I had this and more. Thanks to a combination of the IRS, house fixes and the new regulations on accessing equity thanks to those idiots that bought houses with 0% down and teaser adjustable rate mortgages, I may lose almost everything.
What you pretty much need now-a-days are a few months of emergency money saved in different places AND multiple sources of income...
I definitely worry about it. I am nowhere near 8 months of salary reserve.
And now Andrew the Atheist bible quotes of the day:
proverbs 22:7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower becomes a slave to the lender.
Proverbs 22:26-27
Do not be a man who strikes hands in pledge or puts up security for debts; if you lack the means to pay, your very bed will be snatched from under you