The Watering Hole

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/6/uae-ambassador-endorses-bombing-irans-nuclear-prog/print/

i concur. swing the b2 over to N Korea while your at it...

Are they endorsing us bombing Iran?  Real brave of him...UAE's got bread.

So how many of you feel that the majority of Iranians (and North Koreans for that matter) privately feel that their current government(s) should continue on their present course(s)?

I'd like to think that only a few loons at the top of each government are causing the problems.

I think the majority of Iranians are very dissatisfied.

BTW, just pointing out that chase is suggesting we carry out policy based on what the United Arab Emirates wants us to do.  Fascinating.  By the way, just as a side note, it's probably not important, but the UAE was the primary financial center used by Al-Qaeda to funnel cash to the 9/11 doodz.  Remember them?  They liked the US a lot.

Did any of you read the corrections at the bottom of the article?

The guy said he was missquoted and it was taken out of context.

When the only solution you have is a hammer then every problem looks like a nail.
Something like that anyway.

Simplistic ignorance is so attractive though.


Iran - I worked with a muslim guy recently and his wife is Iranian, he told me all kinds of stuff about that regime and the true culture of the people.
It is not all bad either - culture wise - the regime sucks as, nothing redeeming there.

Culture wise they are very similar to  US religious conservatives.

They don't like liberals but they hate and fear the regime  far more.

The US has a talibanised fictionalised cult in its political spectrum where opinion trumps over rational objective truths.
So do they - just that that their element is running the show.

In many ways the US religious right should understand them very well as it is a reflection of them all be it more extreme.

it is like Alabama being allowed to run its state according to its own rules, the locals vote in a fire brand anti federalist religious conservative
determined to socially engineer along religious extremism and the politics of it.

Stoning women is their form of lynching blacks.

I suggest sending religious conservatives from the US to have a conversation with the Iranian regime.


On a clever sneaky side - wait till Israel has had enough and bombs them.
Pretend to disapprove :)

Ultimately it is a threat to them and the region - they know that they can't win anything with nukes they would be destroyed, it is an attempt to get to the top table, leverage for influence and power.

It is as much a cult of their real fear which is the counter revolution which will stick them with a stoning - not their ideal culmination of their political ambitions.

most of what is apparent from the outside is just the flotsam and jetsam of their real fears - which is internal.

It's much like chase wanting to bomb them - they need to persuade the Iranians to put up with the shit and behave like good little soldiers as the USA is planning to kill them.

Same shit - both simplistic ignorant populations falling for it out of fear.

North Korea - if there was a better example of the extreme conclusion of this process in action then that is it - it is a ceased to function state and only running by the cult of war - the fear of attack.

It is maslow's hierarchy of needs

When things are really shit - starving people, then the only thing that can trump starvation for a regime to survive is to claim imminent nuclear attack by an enemy - USA.

Sooner or later people will stop caring about it but it works for a time.

These regimes are focused firmly on facing inwards - the external stuff is just the visible part outside of their "strategy" to maintain power.

for those regimes a wet dream would be an attack - it would vindicate their propaganda.

So it is tricky - but sure Simplistic ignorance is so attractive though - it works politically

And.....wow! what a colorful history the paper has had. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times

BUT
on the real politic of this

If Iran does get close to nukes  weaponised.

Then that changes the game - and  ach man dinner jacket and his cohorts know that they will be the first against the wall of death

They  won't survive either way - that's why they are so desperate.

They are fucked - and that does make them very dangerous - could be a "Look at me Mah" White Heat moment.

Also war on terra angle.

Shia muslims aren't involved.
Much like Arab nationalists like Saddam weren't involved.

Sunni muslim extremists are behind that.
born in Saudi, UAE etc. (as charger pointed out)
funded by oil revenues and corrupt regimes that maintain power only by giving freedoms to religious nuts.

Iran is a far more functional state than those corruptions - change the regime and the persians will go back to being persians.

If you are worried about an islamic nuke being used against "us" as in the west.

Much more likely to be Pakistan.

nobody is advocating taking out the population. strategic strikes on nuclear assets are another thing altogether.

charger — Jul 08, 2010BTW, just pointing out that chase is suggesting we carry out policy based on what the United Arab Emirates wants us to do.  Fascinating.  By the way, just as a side note, it's probably not important, but the UAE was the primary financial center used by Al-Qaeda to funnel cash to the 9/11 doodz.  Remember them?  They liked the US a lot.

don't fool yourself, the plans for this contingency operation were drawn up a long time ago by our own planners. i guarantee there is a 2 word phrase for an operation to end iran's nuclear ambitions.

And the guy I knew last year - he was from a sunni pakistan background married to a shia girl.

Very nice people - had religion but not nutcases -  far from it - he was an extremely clever and funny guy,
he made his points through humour most  of the time.

He was incredibly open about things.
His younger sister was/is bipolar and drugs/alcoholic - a selfish obsessed Lindsey Lohan type.
and he dealt with her wildness quite gently along with his family apparently as she is 39 and still nuts and doing wild stuff.

He joked that if she had been born in Pakistan she would have become a "little asian wifey" and things would likely have  been different.

I found it hard to refute - sure she may still have had the Bipolar - but with mental illness it is heavily exacerbated by lack of community and easy access like drugs and alcohol.

Interesting bloke  - we disagreed on much of this - but to be honest I disagreed but was persuaded by his arguments.
He understood my arguments as he has lived them like his sister, he doesn't dispute them, just has a different take on it.

He had a richer understanding than any of us.

Must look him up,  and go for a drink with him - he doesn't drink but behaves like he's  drunk  anyway. :)

so after 4 pints at least things will be equal :)

also he is working on some clever shit and work wise it might be interesting - sneaky ulterior motive  :o

chase — Jul 08, 2010nobody is advocating taking out the population. strategic strikes on nuclear assets are another thing altogether.

I didn't even suggest that the plan was to take out the population,

I said that is what the Iranian regime has plied it's own population with so they are riled with righteousness.

Much like you.  :)

I thought all women were bipolar, no?  ;)

Anyway, I think the US knows that if they try to play the "dip-lomacy" card for too long then Israel will do the dirty work for them - at least in Iran.

As for North Korea, I just saw something on TV that talked about how two countries got really screwed when the USSR dissolved: Cuba and N. Korea.  The big difference between the two now is that Cuba took huge steps to become self reliant by getting most of the population to plant crops.  This is why N. Korea looks like this at night:



I'm assuming that one area of light is where their dictator lives.  :D

Cuba is not in the same category.

USA may not like them seeing as the US mafia was run out of there to Las Vegas in the revolution.
and the US control is such you have a guantanemo camp on the island.


I have respect for Cubans, but perhaps they should give in now.

the US was a "belgian congo"  bad mother fucker evil as a colonial master.

But the US  won't dare bully them again like that.

Having heard US people talk crap about using  nukes over the internet.

You do need enough nukes to  blow the USA back to the stone age.

Just to keep them "on topic"

lol :)

CraigBert — Jul 08, 2010I thought all women were bipolar, no?  ;)

Anyway, I think the US knows that if they try to play the "dip-lomacy" card for too long then Israel will do the dirty work for them - at least in Iran.

As for North Korea, I just saw something on TV that talked about how two countries got really screwed when the USSR dissolved: Cuba and N. Korea.  The big difference between the two now is that Cuba took huge steps to become self reliant by getting most of the population to plant crops.  This is why N. Korea looks like this at night:



I'm assuming that one area of light is where their dictator lives.  :D

North Korea has simply failed as a state and has no electric power - a well received book has been written about it by an journo recently and it includes that pic as exhibit A

Just leave the problem to China, South Korea and Japan.

China fears a huge refugee problem if the NK regime falls,
Secondary - and poitically they want the US to fuck off out of their sphere of influence which is big power game stuff.

The  NK regime makes no sense to them at all - but it is a big problem tied up with US involvement and as far as they are concerned a boil not worth lancing to unify Korea under a US umbrella.

China can toast the US though - give you all great sun tans - so it is a dance around thing - no invasion likely,

Saddam was real unlucky - he was invaded as he had weapons of mass destruction.

when everyone knows that if he actually had those WMD's  he wouldn't

the lesson is this - get yourself a nuke - preferably  a sub launched one - then negotiate.