The Watering Hole

You want to talk about culture change over time... we went from support for gays in the military from around 40% in the mid 90's to 60% now.  So, what do you all think?  Is it time to move on and let gays serve openly?  Should we stick with don't ask, don't tell?  Should we do something different?

I think we should approach gays exactly like we should approach race....by eliminating both terms. People are people and should be judged by their actions, not by sex choice and color.

Fair enough.

It sort of screams of pushing "equality" beyond the practical need for it.
While  clearly there can't be a military rule based on flat outright discrimination.

It is right at the boundary of my liberal instincts as to being practical.

Military personnel are drilled into uniformity by the nature of the organisation and the training.

It isn't an environment that traditionally promotes or tolerates individual difference in behaviour

So it probably will have no practical effect over the status quo that has existed for thousands of years.

tacit acceptance and public uniformity

Just read around and found that the UK changed their rules to allow gays to serve openly in the military a decade ago.

I don't think it is a big deal.

Your really gonna scare Chase...I mean...a gay intruder with a loaded weapon. Come on man. ;D

But hey...they do have rights! ;)

i don't see what was wrong with don't ask don't tell.

chase — Mar 02, 2010i don't see what was wrong with don't ask don't tell.

It forced people to lie to keep their jobs. Gay people couldn't talk about their families like straight people could. They had to hide who they were. It's not like no one in the military ever talks about their life outside the uniform.

Believe me, any time someone wanted to get someone in trouble, all they had to do was ask, and force someone to lie or tell the truth. NO consequences for the asker, severe consequences for the asked. And if it was observed that someone was leading any sort of gay lifestyle, they were booted. No asking involved, just observation.

It's a bullshit policy, just fundamentally, because it's inherently discriminatory.

But since you're not gay and apparently know very few gays (based on your not thinking it's a big deal), I can understand why you might think it was okay.

Tripper

chase — Mar 02, 2010i don't see what was wrong with don't ask don't tell.

I don't see what's wrong with letting people be real.  

hey if you want to be a card carrying member of the NRA and stock up on ridiculous amounts of unneeded automatic weapons,  hey that's you.  I am free to disagree with you and what not but it cost neither of us anything to be opposed to the others beliefs or thoughts.

however if you were gay, you'd be stuck in two worlds.  One world where you could be you and do your thing and people would be OK with you and another where if anyone ever knew the truth you'd stand to lose everything.  

chase — Mar 02, 2010i don't see what was wrong with don't ask don't tell.

Apparently you've never thought about it or not the details of the policy. I think it's much more alarming to hear your gun thoughts than hearing someone is gay.

i'm not totally opposed to it, but i think it creates some unnecessary problems. logistically it will be a nightmare to separate the gay and straight people at shower time, barracks, etc. don't fool yourself into thinking that they will allow the 2 to intermingle. the army frowns very seriously on relationships in public between people working/cohabitating together. i would expect the gay soldiers would be treated much the same way women are treated in the military; equal rights and privileges but kept seperate for the most part.

that's all just pure speculation though. almost every poll in the last year has shown a 50/50 for against result amongst commissioned officers, but a 70/30 against/for ratio for enlisted people.

chase — Mar 02, 2010i don't see what was wrong with don't ask don't tell.

Is that where everyone intermingles and they shower and bunk together?

BINGEWOOD — Mar 02, 2010[quote author=chase link=1267470822/0#6 date=1267508943]i don't see what was wrong with don't ask don't tell.

Is that where everyone intermingles and they shower and bunk together?

thats where if you are found out to be gay or admit to being gay you get discharged.

The miltary is like prison culture
they probably know who all the queers are
and most of them are probably mean mofos

probably like the shawshank redemption
don't ask don't tell  

chase — Mar 02, 2010[quote author=BINGEWOOD link=1267470822/0#11 date=1267558946][quote author=chase link=1267470822/0#6 date=1267508943]i don't see what was wrong with don't ask don't tell.

Is that where everyone intermingles and they shower and bunk together?

thats where if you are found out to be gay or admit to being gay you get discharged.

Just discharged? So you mean they aren't used for target practice then?  ;) :D

No Craig, Chase can't shoot them. They have guns too, remember? ;D

Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean they can't whip yer ass. Just a little tidbit of info for ya. ;)

And just a little info for ya Chase...if a man is gay, he probably doesn't want anything to do with your straight ass anyway. So, let them admire the straight dudes packages, what difference does it make? None.

clearly anyone joining the military has  the courage
to put their ass on the line ;)

(sorry couldn't resist I tried not to crack that joke  3 times)

And you might as well let it all hang out as well. ;D ;D

Just be sure to clarify that when you ask him to watch your back that it means to protect him, not stare and fantasize.  ;D

Chase's idea of segregation is interesting.
Form a gay regiment to provide interior design and  makeover advice after an invasion -  to win hearts and minds.

Yeah, I guess pink tents and little flowers painted on guns are simply out of the question. ;D

I wonder if they prefer camos that look like flowers too...  ;D

their weapons have just been procured...