The Watering Hole

Mitch McConnell says (on the Senate record in committee): "1.1 trillion is the limit for spending in 2011 - we won't agree to anything more." (I'm paraphrasing)

So they all come up with a bill that hits that target in the interest of garnering bipartisan support for 2011 spending, in accordance with the Sessions-McCaskill spending cap that the Republicans are always championing...

Then Mitch McConnell comes out and says, "This gigantic, trillion-dollar bill is being rammed through by Democrats" (again, I'm paraphrasing).

When you have fucking assholes like that just going out and bullshitting like they had no part in making it 1.1 trillion, you see why we're completely fucked. The dems are pussies, the Repugs are assholes, and no one in Congress suffers - but we ALL do.

Dipshits. Dirty lying dipshits.
Tripper

And that's why these fuckers should be held responsible for their actions. This is a perfect example of why my attitude is so poor concerning politicians.

The only difference between you and I, attitude wise, is my disgust with both parties is spread out equally.

Just pointing out what is wrong is the easy bit.

fingers — Dec 19, 2010Just pointing out what is wrong is the easy bit.

Apparently it's not so easy.

Hookbender — Dec 19, 2010[quote author=fingers link=1292695537/0#2 date=1292728967]Just pointing out what is wrong is the easy bit.

Apparently it's not so easy.


Right.  For example, when Bush is president.

Hookbender — Dec 18, 2010And that's why these fuckers should be held responsible for their actions. This is a perfect example of why my attitude is so poor concerning politicians.

The only difference between you and I, attitude wise, is my disgust with both parties is spread out equally.

Your disgust with both parties is spread out equally...all over O' Bammer!

charger — Dec 19, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1292695537/0#3 date=1292732855][quote author=fingers link=1292695537/0#2 date=1292728967]Just pointing out what is wrong is the easy bit.

Apparently it's not so easy.


Right.  For example, when Bush is president.

You can get away with that little type saying until we have a republican doing stupid shit and you see I truly don't give a shit about parties. Just the issues and the decisions made to attempt to fix them. Then what are ya gonna do?

So that's why you want a  crazy republican
as president? So you can criticise them

You have to read Obama's memoirs as well.

Hookbender — Dec 21, 2010[quote author=charger link=1292695537/0#4 date=1292785752][quote author=Hookbender link=1292695537/0#3 date=1292732855][quote author=fingers link=1292695537/0#2 date=1292728967]Just pointing out what is wrong is the easy bit.

Apparently it's not so easy.


Right.  For example, when Bush is president.

You can get away with that little type saying until we have a republican doing stupid shit and you see I truly don't give a shit about parties. Just the issues and the decisions made to attempt to fix them. Then what are ya gonna do?


As long as (s)he's white and a pub, you're going to love him/her.  Hell, the walking disaster that was Bush created chaos throughout our economy and government, and you still wanted to read his "book".

Hookbender — Dec 18, 2010And that's why these fuckers should be held responsible for their actions. This is a perfect example of why my attitude is so poor concerning politicians.

The only difference between you and I, attitude wise, is my disgust with both parties is spread out equally.

The difference between you and ME is that my disgust is appropriately distributed. I'm super fucking pissed at the Democrats, too, but at least they don't act in lockstep or with obstructionist tendencies - many of them are actually trying to get things done for the betterment of this country.

Let me ask you a question: If your disgust is spread out equally, why doesn't it show? You only expend energy shitting on Democrats these days, and specifically the President.

And you do it in such flagrant ignorance of the facts that it seems your disgust exists solely for you to have something to be angry with Obama about.

What happened to you, seriously? What changed in you that made your anger take over?
Tripper

Tripper — Dec 22, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1292695537/0#1 date=1292709774]And that's why these fuckers should be held responsible for their actions. This is a perfect example of why my attitude is so poor concerning politicians.

The only difference between you and I, attitude wise, is my disgust with both parties is spread out equally.

The difference between you and ME is that my disgust is appropriately distributed. I'm super fucking pissed at the Democrats, too, but at least they don't act in lockstep or with obstructionist tendencies - many of them are actually trying to get things done for the betterment of this country.

Let me ask you a question: If your disgust is spread out equally, why doesn't it show? You only expend energy shitting on Democrats these days, and specifically the President.

And you do it in such flagrant ignorance of the facts that it seems your disgust exists solely for you to have something to be angry with Obama about.

What happened to you, seriously? What changed in you that made your anger take over?
Tripper

Let me answer the last question first. I wouldn't call it anger. I'd call it a little disgusted and frustrated, and kinda embarrassed for our country, the more I learn about politics.

It's not about thinking critically, logic, none of that. It's the politicians lack of simple common sense. Goddamn, a person could be a great President today without a college degree.

The reason it doesn't show is because Obama has been the central topic in damn near every discussion. The republicans are shit to, there ya go. I'm not gonna get into a discussion as general as republicans and democrats. Fuck them both. Thats all I have to say about them.

I'm not ignorant of and facts I mentioned. You can change every statement from Obama to our government if that makes you feel better. But Obamas in charge. And he gets credit and the heat for his decisions whether you like it or not. Just like Bush did and every other President.

I think I will back away from these political discussions because in the end, most people will defend their party or parties leader to the death. So it's kind like arguing with brick walls. I dislike all politicians. I just dislike some less than others. And both parties are shit. Now, see....I'm not angry. ;D  

Hookbender — Dec 22, 2010
It's not about thinking critically, logic, none of that. It's the politicians lack of simple common sense. Goddamn, a person could be a great President today without a college degree.
 

Dude, it's the people who lack common sense.  The people want the budget deficit fixed, but in every poll, when pollsters ask them what they are willing to cut, it's NOTHING.

They want the "bad" healthcare bill overturned, but, same thing, in every poll, when questioned on specific parts of the bill, they want to keep EVERYTHING.

The PEOPLE are great at big picture slogans.  Maybe that's because years of hollywood movies have sold us that it's as simple as a one-line slogan.  But it's more complicated than that.  

And politicians serve the people. So the people get exactly what they deserve.

Bingo - what I have been saying for ages

charger — Dec 22, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1292695537/0#10 date=1292989930]
It's not about thinking critically, logic, none of that. It's the politicians lack of simple common sense. Goddamn, a person could be a great President today without a college degree.
 

Dude, it's the people who lack common sense.  The people want the budget deficit fixed, but in every poll, when pollsters ask them what they are willing to cut, it's NOTHING.

They want the "bad" healthcare bill overturned, but, same thing, in every poll, when questioned on specific parts of the bill, they want to keep EVERYTHING.

The PEOPLE are great at big picture slogans.  Maybe that's because years of hollywood movies have sold us that it's as simple as a one-line slogan.  But it's more complicated than that.  

And politicians serve the people. So the people get exactly what they deserve.

Well, I may give ya that one. But only half way. It's a good bit both people and politicians. :D

Peoples is peoples.

BINGEWOOD — Dec 23, 2010Peoples is peoples.

Reminds me of Pete's speech in "The Muppets Take Manhattan".
Tripper

Hookbender — Dec 22, 2010
Let me answer the last question first. I wouldn't call it anger. I'd call it a little disgusted and frustrated, and kinda embarrassed for our country, the more I learn about politics.

It's not about thinking critically, logic, none of that. It's the politicians lack of simple common sense. Goddamn, a person could be a great President today without a college degree.

But not without some sort of proper education, even if self-directed, because then we'd have an ignoramus - someone like Sarah Palin.

The reason it doesn't show is because Obama has been the central topic in damn near every discussion. The republicans are shit to, there ya go. I'm not gonna get into a discussion as general as republicans and democrats. Fuck them both. Thats all I have to say about them.

So you're going to ignore the nuance? I guess it is easier to look at things as though they are clear-cut and easily explained in monochromatic terms, but they're not. Obama becomes the topic because you go directly to slamming him the first chance you get, even on things that have nothing to do with him (but fall under his purview, in your opinion).

I'm not ignorant of and facts I mentioned. You can change every statement from Obama to our government if that makes you feel better. But Obamas in charge. And he gets credit and the heat for his decisions whether you like it or not. Just like Bush did and every other President.

Not if he's facing an obstructionist Congress. If he's not able to get something done because the GOP are being babies, that's on them 100%. But he was able to get three big things done before the lame duck session ended. I don't know how much of that was Harry Reid or how much was VP Biden or President Obama, but 9/11 responders will finally have their health covered, gays will (eventually) no longer have to lie about who they are to serve our country, and we're on track to securing the nuclear weapons in existence with the SALT treaty. And all he had to do was be fiscally retarded and let the GOP have their tax cuts for the rich (and everyone else), which will fuck us debt-wise, but hey, we'll figure it out when it's a crisis...right?

I think I will back away from these political discussions because in the end, most people will defend their party or parties leader to the death. So it's kind like arguing with brick walls. I dislike all politicians. I just dislike some less than others. And both parties are shit. Now, see....I'm not angry. ;D  

But you act like I'm a Democrat or that I am defending that party, when it's a bunch of bullshit. I only care about actions, not parties. I don't know how many times this has to be explained to you, but I'm 100% for the abolishment of political parties in this country. They encourage "me vs. you" thinking and don't foster cooperation or progress. Sure, many of my positions follow what the Democrats have tried to do, but that's just the nature of being for moving the country in a better direction or not, and being FOR the people of this country instead of the establishment...the Dems tend to promote things that are for the people (even though their ability to translate that into progress tends to suck ass).

Conservatism as practiced in this country by the GOP just fucks pretty much everyone but the rich over, and never gets any of the social change that their duped followers vote for. This was amplified even further in the 2010 midterms with the rise of the "Tea Party" version of conservatism, which evolved into exactly the same shit populist mirage that Reagan used to sell this country to the corporations and bankers when he was president. Its origins were sensible, but what it gave us were just a bunch of Dan Quayles - ignorant partisans with little to offer the government or the country. We'll see how they do when they enter the machine that is Congress and are corrupted by its culture.

Merry Christmas!
Tripper

Merry Christmas to you, also.

But if your gonna slam Bush for his money failures, Obama should get the same. And if you defend Obamas decisions on spending, your clearly 100% liberal.

Hookbender — Dec 25, 2010Merry Christmas to you, also.

But if your gonna slam Bush for his money failures, Obama should get the same. And if you defend Obamas decisions on spending, your clearly 100% liberal.

I don't, but even if I did, being a liberal doesn't make me a Democrat.

I actually wish he would have minimized the tax cuts in the last stimulus and spent all that money on infrastructure projects. So I'm in the Bernie Sanders camp...a bit to the left of the president.

But you consistently ignore this reality in your anti-Obama/Bush "defensiveism":
Obama wouldn't have spent the way he has so far if Bush hadn't fucked everything up. I don't know why you can't get that through your think skull.

Tripper

Tripper — Dec 25, 2010I actually wish he would have minimized the tax cuts in the last stimulus and spent all that money on infrastructure projects. So I'm in the Bernie Sanders camp...a bit to the left of the president.

These were the changes made by "conservatives" in the senate.  They added tax breaks and cut infrastructure spending.

I dig Berneee too, but there needs to be more than one of him to get enough votes to do anything "liberal".  

Tripper — Dec 25, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1292695537/0#17 date=1293244144]Merry Christmas to you, also.

But if your gonna slam Bush for his money failures, Obama should get the same. And if you defend Obamas decisions on spending, your clearly 100% liberal.

I don't, but even if I did, being a liberal doesn't make me a Democrat.

I actually wish he would have minimized the tax cuts in the last stimulus and spent all that money on infrastructure projects. So I'm in the Bernie Sanders camp...a bit to the left of the president.

But you consistently ignore this reality in your anti-Obama/Bush "defensiveism":
Obama wouldn't have spent the way he has so far if Bush hadn't fucked everything up. I don't know why you can't get that through your think skull.

Tripper

I get that. But he spent money out the ass, did it his way, now he's cutting taxes on top of the spending. The pubs way. We simply have to stop the spending.

Hookbender — Dec 26, 2010I get that. But he spent money out the ass, did it his way, now he's cutting taxes on top of the spending. The pubs way. We simply have to stop the spending.

He didn't spend money his way - that was the point we were making about the stimulus. Which you missed...again.

And stopping spending isn't the solution, according to most economists - that's the other point that keeps being made to you. Spending money INTELLIGENTLY was the way out of this mess. He didn't do that because he was being "bipartisan" and it wasn't enough. It should have been infrastructure spending plus tax incentives for banks to lend money to people and companies to hire American workers (instead of continuing their offshoring trend) to put money in the hands of people who spend money (instead of the rich who generally hang on to it).

At some point you'll get this...
Tripper

Tripper — Dec 28, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1292695537/0#20 date=1293400243]I get that. But he spent money out the ass, did it his way, now he's cutting taxes on top of the spending. The pubs way. We simply have to stop the spending.

He didn't spend money his way - that was the point we were making about the stimulus. Which you missed...again.

And stopping spending isn't the solution, according to most economists - that's the other point that keeps being made to you. Spending money INTELLIGENTLY was the way out of this mess. He didn't do that because he was being "bipartisan" and it wasn't enough. It should have been infrastructure spending plus tax incentives for banks to lend money to people and companies to hire American workers (instead of continuing their offshoring trend) to put money in the hands of people who spend money (instead of the rich who generally hang on to it).

At some point you'll get this...
Tripper

Yeah, I got all that to. There is no way to more effectively put money in the hands of the people who spend it than tax cuts. The government can't touch tax cuts. They can't waste the money. Everyone gains except the government. With the stimulus, as we saw, it gets spent on pork shit, buying car dealerships, etc. A lot gets waisted. So instead of doing the most effective thing first, he spent 800 billion plus, then on top of that he decides tax cuts are necessary and even bows to rich in doing so.

If, to really fix the problem and spending money was the fix, he damn sure should have spent it to start with. Now we're faced with even more horrible debt on top of the money he spent, wasted. Money isn't moving. That is part of the problem.

You don't understand what we are facing at all, and you don't understand 1/20 of what has happened in the last ten years, or 4 yearrs, or 2 years.  It's very very hard to repeat the same facts over and over and then have you "respond" with a spinoff into something else that we weren't talking about, had no interest in talking about, and that is totally irrelevant.  You are on a single track and it's not crossing our path, so we're never actually talking about the same thing.  That makes this and all related threads entertaining, in the way that the myth of Sisyphus is entertaining, and about as meaningful as is existentially possible, under the circumstances.  All these threads need are some random pictures.

It's got plenty of denial though.

See?  perfect example.

See? See what?

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Oh shit. Tripper has turned into Stratman. :o

Hookbender — Dec 31, 2010Oh shit. Tripper has turned into Stratman. :o

That's because you can't see the truth. :D

The media lie to you and tell you that liberals are right, but that's garbage. :D

You'll know when judgment day comes. Maybe you'll figure it out by then and we can hang in heaven. :D

RUSH IS RIGHT! :D

Stupid libs... :D

Satire aside, actually what we were saying is that YOU have... :)
Tripper

Sure I have. Who's we?

You'll answer to the man upstairs for your hateful remarks because the truth is right in front of your eye's.

Hookbender — Jan 02, 2011Sure I have. Who's we?

Charger and I

You'll answer to the man upstairs for your hateful remarks because the truth is right in front of your eye's.

Not enough smileys. :D:D:D:D:D

Good on the bad grammar, though...  >:( :o
Tripper

I didn't put the smileys at the end on purpose. I like my bad grammer. ;D