The Watering Hole

Thought I would check out Factcheck.org as you suggested. Seems Palin isn't quite as bad as you think. Maybe you should slack off on the radio and T.V. and do some factcheckin yourself. ;)

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html

Hookbender — Sep 11, 2008Thought I would check out Factcheck.org as you suggested. Seems Palin isn't quite as bad as you think. Maybe you should slack off on the radio and T.V. and do some factcheckin yourself. ;)

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html

The only one of those things I claimed was that she was a member of the Alaskan Independence Party.  She was not. I still have more than enough reason to fear her.  

I do not support banning books, and she asked the librarian how she would go about banning them.  That's enough for me: in a free society, you do not ban books.

She mentioned on that she supports teaching Creationism (just because she never pushed for it is not any reassurance), and she does not support sex education beyond abstinence, nor does she support stem cell research.  In short, she's anti-science, like every other wack-job conservative religious nut.

I never said anything about special needs funding or Pat Buchanan.  Look at the fact check page on her speech, or on "the bridge to nowhere".  She repeats the same lies over and over.  We already had 8 years of a guy who repeated the same lies over and over again until people accepted them as truth.  Do we need 8 more?

Here's some decent analysis of "this week's pedagoguery by McCain"...

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/articles/2008/09/12/pretzel_logic_from_the_mccain_campaign/

I'm sorry, but this has to be the most shallow, poorly-spoken person to ever be in this position.  Well, maybe Dan Quayle was worse, but... what the fuck is she saying?

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/11/raw-data-palins-interview-with-abc-news/

The book banning incident with the firings hardly reads like a rebuttal.

It only rebuts the claim she actually did ban some books - not the fact that she bullied the librarian about the issue repeatedly, and
was assuming that she had the right to ban books as a principle.

There seems to be a pattern forming around the stories about Palin's record with power.

That she uses power for personal reasons vindictively,  to bully people - Troopergate is about  exactly that same pattern
Bullying and firing people for personal reasons.

She has a record of confusing her own interests with that of the people she represents.

fingers — Sep 12, 2008The book banning incident with the firings hardly reads like a rebuttal.

It only rebuts the claim she actually did ban some books - not the fact that she bullied the librarian about the issue repeatedly, and
was assuming that she had the right to ban books as a principle.

There seems to be a pattern forming around the stories about Palin's record with power.

That she uses power for personal reasons vindictively,  to bully people - Troopergate is about  exactly that same pattern
Bullying and firing people for personal reasons.

She has a record of confusing her own interests with that of the people she represents.

That's what bugs me the most... that she is cut from the same cloth as our previous administration, which did shit like this constantly, and operated out of spite and vengeance as a rule.

I think McCain's camp is pretty smart to keep her out of interviews--she's not doing any more.  Considering that McCain got absolutely skewered by a group of smart women, who I think he expected to fawn all over him, on "The View" today, I think he's just waking up to what a fucking this can become.  Best policy, which has worked so far, is to only allow Palin to speak to supportive crowds, with him in tow.  She's the first VP who won't be doing any interviews (besides the one) and the first one who will not be traveling on her own (because McCain knows no one will show up to hear him speak without her).

Hookbender — Sep 11, 2008Thought I would check out Factcheck.org as you suggested. Seems Palin isn't quite as bad as you think. Maybe you should slack off on the radio and T.V. and do some factcheckin yourself. ;)

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html

Read the whole factcheck.org site before you make yourself look like a fucking tool, Hook. Jesus.

Compare the quantity and more importantly, depth or callousness of the lies from each side, and then realize that your attitude towards Obama masks something illogical or anti-intellectual. Obama's not a liar - he'll spin a little, but McCain and Palin have demonstrably lied on repeated occasions.

Tripper

I'm frankly pretty surprised that McCain said that Palin took no earmarks as governor of Alaska.  When Charlie Gibson laid out the exact numbers to her, she admitted it... then spun.  When the View ladies asked McCain about it, he didn't even spin.  He just flat-out lied.  

That is not acceptable.  

charger — Sep 12, 2008I'm frankly pretty surprised that McCain said that Palin took no earmarks as governor of Alaska.  When Charlie Gibson laid out the exact numbers to her, she admitted it... then spun.  When the View ladies asked McCain about it, he didn't even spin.  He just flat-out lied.  

That is not acceptable.  

HOW DARE YOU! HOW DARE YOU QUESTION A WAR HERO AND POW LIKE JOHN MCCAIN! DON'T YOU KNOW THAT'S DISRESEPECTFUL? His shit smells like roses, the economy is solid, and Sarah Palin's never sought an earmark!

Ha ha ha - fucking losers...the more shit that comes out, and the more McCain lies, the more likely it becomes that Obama will be our next president.

Tripper

Cancel that - I just read the link.


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MCkgtisIz5A

you have to feel sorry for him - that is a harsh interview :)

fingers — Sep 13, 2008Cancel that - I just read the link.


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MCkgtisIz5A

you have to feel sorry for him - that is a harsh interview :)

Why would I feel sorry for him?  He chose to go on "The View" after he realized that Sarah Palin was a huge rockstar.  He thought he would be a huge hit with a few friendly women, who were going to pat him on the back and shake his hand for choosing a woman to be VP.  His decision to go on "The View" was just as sexist as his decision to pick a woman, "any woman" for VP.  He deserved to get slapped down by a few smart women, and he deserves to be punched in the mouth for trying to deceive the American people.

This John McCain is a loooong fucking way from the guy I remember, who invented the "straight talk express"... he's certainly saying it all with a straight face, but if he's lying, does that count as straight talk?

I mean, not only did Palin request and get earmarks while governor, but Alaska got THE MOST PER CAPITA EARMARKS in the nation, every year for the past, who the fuck knows... forever.  More than ten times the earmarks per person of Illinois, which Palin has been excoriating Obama for requesting.  

This election strategy is a mockery of a sham.  Pathetic.  If these people end up leading us, we may as well change our national motto to e pluribus fraude.

Charger

If you don't support banning books, what are your thoughts about the Bible in school? It's a very important part of our history. Should it be allowed?

There is a huge difference between being against banning books from libraries and being against any particular book being a part of the school curriculum outside of English literature classes or in the case of the bible Religious classes.

The bible is not a special case in this at all.

I disagree. If a child is doing a history report, this book would be very useful, in some cases.

It's just a book. Should it be banned? Charger?

Hookbender — Sep 13, 2008Charger

If you don't support banning books, what are your thoughts about the Bible in school? It's a very important part of our history. Should it be allowed?

You're asking the wrong question.  Banning books from a library is not related at all to what books are included in a school curriculum.  There are lots of books I can get from the library that are in no way appropriate to teach in the fifth grade.  For example, Tropic of Cancer.  

Should the Bible be allowed in libraries?  Of course!  Libraries should allow unfettered access to as much knowledge as they can.

Should the Bible be taught in schools?  Not as religion.  As literature, it's certainly important, and much of Western literature is dominated by Biblical references.  Not knowing it puts the Western literature student at a serious disadvantage.  Why the hell else would I have read the old and new testaments and the Torah three times through? I was a lit student.  

However, while important to literature students, it's totally irrelevant to, say, science students.

Do you think there should e a age requirement, say 18 years old, to view the bible? Or, 21?

Kinda off subject, just thought I'd ask.

Hookbender — Sep 14, 2008I disagree. If a child is doing a history report, this book would be very useful, in some cases.

Why ?  Give an example of where you think the Bible  would be a useful history book for school kids ?

It isn't is it - any more than the religious book of Odin or Zeus would be.

Kids need to learn about the role of religion in history - not study the religions aside from their impact on history - the lesson being taught.

Teaching it as a history book is only one step away from teaching it in science classes.

fingers — Sep 15, 2008[quote author=Hookbender link=1221176981/0#13 date=1221361349]I disagree. If a child is doing a history report, this book would be very useful, in some cases.

Why ?  Give an example of where you think the Bible  would be a useful history book for school kids ?

It isn't is it - any more than the religious book of Odin or Zeus would be.

Kids need to learn about the role of religion in history - not study the religions aside from their impact on history - the lesson being taught.

Teaching it as a history book is only one step away from teaching it in science classes.


+1.
The Bible is not a history book.  Much of the history in it has been disproven, or is innacurate.  And it starts with the most ridiculous "history" conceivable.  The Bible belongs in a comparative religion class, in literature classes, and in myth/monomyth/cultural mythology classes.  The absolute worst place it can end up (aside from in schools as a generalized rule) is in the government, where it is starting to appear now.

fingers — Sep 15, 2008[quote author=Hookbender link=1221176981/0#13 date=1221361349]I disagree. If a child is doing a history report, this book would be very useful, in some cases.

Why ?  Give an example of where you think the Bible  would be a useful history book for school kids ?

It isn't is it - any more than the religious book of Odin or Zeus would be.

Kids need to learn about the role of religion in history - not study the religions aside from their impact on history - the lesson being taught.

Teaching it as a history book is only one step away from teaching it in science classes.





Your absolutely correct. Not sure what I was thinking when I posted that. I stand corrected!