29 posts
Obama is sorry he lied to us about Obamacare. But hey, he's gonna try to fix it. He has his team on it. ;D ;D
Apparently, Nancy was right. We needed to pass this thing so Obama could read it too. He must not be finished reading it yet. Hell, it's 3 million pages long. ;D
It's time like these that make me proud to be an American. :D
Luckily, the Republicans are now on the case, and they're going to make sure we get the website working, by holding lots of hearings. Because they are desperate to get poor people signed up on the healthcare exchanges. So, good for them!
"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"
Pitiful. Thats what our government is. If I were a betting man, I'd put everything I have on the guess that Obama hasn't read this thing either, and doesn't know very much about it. >:(
I had my annual checkup at the doctor this week. What he told me about Obamacare went right along with what my cousin (RN Director at Childrens Hospital Cincinnati), and one of my friends who is an X-ray tech told me. Basically, if you are a working person who has had insurance through your job for years, you are probably going to lose it and you are going to pay out your ASS to get new insurance. My doctor said that if you (couple) make over $90K your deductible will be $13,500 per year. And his cost (Wife and 3 kids for him) was $1,200 per month along with that $13,500 deductible. (This is a direct quote when he looked it up on the new web site!)
I don't care which side of the political coin you are on. Honestly, I'd be embarrassed to take EITHER side as these clowns are ruining our country. But forgeting that for a moment and getting back to topic. Boys, if we don't get this thing repealed in a year or so, it's time to move to another country. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
DreamTheaterRules — Nov 08, 2013 Boys, if we don't get this thing repealed in a year or so, it's time to move to another country. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
I will tell you for Free that the UK is far worse. I give away 60% of my income in taxes once you factor-in income tax and national insurance tax.....and what do they do with it....give it to the fuckers who won't work ! >:(
That's what they are going to be doing to us. Our society is evolving into an "entitlement" society. You don't have to work to earn your way through life. Too many are sitting back and claiming the government OWES it to them to take care of them.
Several months back they said that over 50% of the people in this country receive some type of assistance from the government. Needless to say, that can't go on. They just take more and more and more from those of us who do work.
Guess we should all be freeloaders like Kev and move to Canada where insurance is free. ;D
DreamTheaterRules — Nov 08, 2013I had my annual checkup at the doctor this week. What he told me about Obamacare went right along with what my cousin (RN Director at Childrens Hospital Cincinnati), and one of my friends who is an X-ray tech told me. Basically, if you are a working person who has had insurance through your job for years, you are going to lose it and you are going to pay out your ASS to get new insurance. My doctor said that if you (couple) make over $90K your deductible will be $13,500 per year. And his cost (Wife and 3 kids for him) was $1,200 per month along with that $13,500 deductible.
I don't care which side of the political coin you are on. Honestly, I'd be embarrassed to take EITHER side as these clowns are ruining our country. But forgeting that for a moment and getting back to topic. Boys, if we don't get this thing repealed in a year or so, it's time to move to another country. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Bullshit. There are so many ways this is wrong I can't tackle them all.
But let's start with "if you're a working person who has insurance through your job, you are going to lose it." The only way that's going to happen is if your company is a bunch of assholes. You certainly aren't going to be able to attract decent talent if you don't offer a good health plan in the sort of companies that would pay that level of compensation. Feel free to refute with facts, not opinions and hearsay.
Second point, why the hell would he choose to work at the Children's Hospital of Cincinatti if their health benefits are so shitty? If you're a doctor, it seems like there is an awful lot of work out there right now. But since I don't believe for a second those are the actual benefits he gets, I'm calling bullshit for a second time.
Third point? My, and yours, and everyone else's healthcare was getting more and more expensive every year before this law. It's been skyrocketing forever. Especially in the US. There's a lot of good in this law to tackle that, and there's a lot of crap that will hopefully be fixed. But it's not anything like you say it is.
So what happens when we provide insurance to low cost insurance to lower income people?
Healthcare costs decrease over time when low-income uninsured are provided coverage, study finds
http://www.socsci.uci.edu/node/11990
But I'll be sure to report back here when my company cancels my health insurance, and suddenly requires me to pay $14k a year for high-deductible coverage.
just an anecdote... I have individual insurance. my plan is grandfathered (I've had it since '92 and never have cared enough about it to change it... lol) and, so far, not cancelled. it costs just shy of twice as much now as it did in 2010. meh, whatever... I've never used the insurance, kept it to be "responsible". I'm going to keep paying it for now - but if it gets cancelled, I'll forgo insurance and pay the, vastly cheaper, penalty instead... pay cash for healthcare of the broken bone setting variety if I ever need it and if it's something terminal... I'll check out. that was my plan well before this law too, so, yeah... whatever.
ironsheep — Nov 08, 2013just an anecdote... I have individual insurance. my plan is grandfathered (I've had it since '92 and never have cared enough about it to change it... lol) and, so far, not cancelled. it costs just shy of twice as much now as it did in 2010. meh, whatever... I've never used the insurance, kept it to be "responsible". I'm going to keep paying it for now - but if it gets cancelled, I'll forgo insurance and pay the, vastly cheaper, penalty instead... pay cash for healthcare of the broken bone setting variety if I ever need it and if it's something terminal... I'll check out. that was my plan well before this law too, so, yeah... whatever.
To me, it's way cheaper to go with the penalty option if you don't need healthcare. If that's the route you go, don't get sick!
Also, it's worthwhile to note that we have no idea what healthcare on the individual exchanges is going to cost in 2015, after a year of the ACA. Insurers right now are pricing things where they think they have to price them, kicking people and then offering them higher priced plans, etc. After a year, they're going to have a much better idea of the actual costs and benefits, and they're also going to be required to spend 80-85% of their income on actual benefits. Their rates for 2014 are guesses, but they don't have any idea of the actual pool that's going to sign up, and how healthy they are.
I wonder what happens when you can't possibly pay EITHER the insurance OR the penalty...
my understanding is that the penalty, for now, can only be collected out of any tax refunds. so if you estimate properly, or don't make enough to pay tax, they can't collect it at all.
if that's true, I really doubt it will stay that way for long - would be dangerous to plan on it. I'm sure there will be a running total of penalty/tax owed that will have to be paid some day, one way or another.
on the "don't get sick!"... heh, right on! but... I can handle most "sick" out of pocket - anything major like chemotherapy or that stuff I wouldn't do anyway. I'm not looking to be the 6 million dollar man... when it's time, I'm out... and that's cool. I've seen both options here - in and out of the hospital for a few years spending all kinds of money "doing everything possible" in my dad's case (who, of course, died anyway)... or going out on one's own terms, at home, in my mom's. I'm choosing the latter for myself... and not because I can't afford the former or think there's something wrong with someone wanting all that stuff, I just don't want to live a quasi-life as a patient for a few years before I die. at all.
but, notably, I don't have any dependents. the wife and kids were the driving force behind all of my dad's treatment (I think). it would be a totally different set of decisions if I had that kind of family consideration, that's for sure. would make it much more difficult to be a stoic regarding death.
Well, what if you get anus cancer and it's detected early, for example? Requires much care. You just gonna check out then? Or lose everything you have in your pocket to treat it? That's the problem. If you can afford insurance, IMO, you should have it.
The people who are losing coverage, mostly, have individual policies. They are not people that are afforded insurance through an employer. So, your being mislead by Fox News, that's point one.
And, the policies are generally sub par policies, meaning they are not very good, cover very little, and are part of the problem themselves. The reason they are being cancelled is because they aren't worth a shit. The policies. They don't meet the new standards being set by obamacare. The reason the cost of a replacement policy for these people cost more, is because the new policy IS worth a shit and covers way more of the expenses of healthcare. It doesn't matter that you like your policy anymore. It only matters that you have adequate coverage for yourself and family. And your talking about 5% or less of people with any loss of coverage at all. As with any huge change of this magnitude, we will experience problems. And, over time, these problems will be addressed.
I really don't like obamacare. However, this is being blown way out of proportion. Mainly by Fox News. It's so easy to see where people get their info sometimes. It's also easy to see how wrong the info is. I think Fox News should be put out of business and all the people involved should spend the rest of their lives in jail. They lie all day long to the people of this nation with no consequences at all. A bunch of lies isn't news, it's a bunch of lies.
My employer is shopping insurance right now, as we speak. They are thinking they will find better coverage cheaper now that obamacare is law. They bitch about obamacare, but want to take advantage of lower prices as a result of it. They are all conservative Fox News watchers as well, by the way.
Get the talking points from fox, see what they are saying, then go get the truth on the net about whatever the subject is. You ain't getting truth on fox, you can bet your ass on that.
DreamTheaterRules — Nov 08, 2013I had my annual checkup at the doctor this week. What he told me about Obamacare went right along with what my cousin (RN Director at Childrens Hospital Cincinnati), and one of my friends who is an X-ray tech told me. Basically, if you are a working person who has had insurance through your job for years, you are going to lose it and you are going to pay out your ASS to get new insurance. My doctor said that if you (couple) make over $90K your deductible will be $13,500 per year. And his cost (Wife and 3 kids for him) was $1,200 per month along with that $13,500 deductible.
I don't care which side of the political coin you are on. Honestly, I'd be embarrassed to take EITHER side as these clowns are ruining our country. But forgeting that for a moment and getting back to topic. Boys, if we don't get this thing repealed in a year or so, it's time to move to another country. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Well, your cousin partly doesn't understand Obamacare. Did you think to ask him if he's read and understood the law? Or, maybe, ask him where he got his info from? If he's a doctor, I'm sure he makes much more than 90k a year. Let's just say he pays 15k year for a damn good policy. Does his wife work as we'll? Even if she doesn't, 15k a year is chicken shit to him. Why is he bitching? I say this because most of the people who actually passed this shit don't really understand it themselves. Ask him what he pays for malpractice insurance. That's worth bitching about.
for years, I have been told "if you don't have children, you can't understand".
so... you have children, you can't understand. :P ;D
You guys need to read more carefully! First of all I did edit my post to say "probably." What my doctor told me was that many if not most smaller companies would not be able to afford it. He said he has another patient who owns a company of around 250 employees, and that (not BS opinions or political scare tactics) he went directly to the web site to see whT it would cost, and that he ca no afford to give them what he always has. He said he would probably give each employee a $4,500 or so stipend, and tell them to get there own insurance.
My cousin, whom I didn't quote on anything above, is an upper mid level executive at one of the highest rated hospitals in the country. What she DID tell me, I won't even bother saying here, until it happens. I am not going to debate what she said after upper management level meetings regarding this topic, with people who read about it on the internet. When they have EXPERTS saying, this is what thwt dhange will mean to us (and all hospitals) and this is what will change in the medical business because of that change, I think I will probably take what she said over what I read in the media or on the internet. :). Keep in mind, I still haven't said anything that she said, only that what she told me went with along with what my doctor told me. And he told me a lot more than the quick post above.
Most everything you hear in the news is garbage. From your post, whoever sounded like a fox news dude with the credentials of Sean Hanity. sp?? ;D Thats all I'm saying. ;D Are these people conservatives? "Yes Roy they are." Nuff said. ;D
Ironically the first thing I thought when. I saw Chargers post was " here com the libs!" Nothing my doctor said, nor anything my cousin said, had anything to do with their political opinions. Both gave lots of factual information based on professional insight and expert analysis. I gave a real life example of a company owner who had already seen the changes and could not afford to provide what he provides now, once this kicks in, and you guys argue and tell me I am wrong, or my doctor is. I tell you he himself went online to see how much his personal coverage would cost, and you tell me again i am wrong and he doesn't know what he's talking about.
We are in the politics forum. I should know better than to think i could post here without arguments. ;D
DreamTheaterRules — Nov 08, 2013That's what they are going to be doing to us. Our society is evolving into an "entitlement" society. You don't have to work to earn your way through life. Too many are sitting back and claiming the government OWES it to them to take care of them.
Several months back they said that over 50% of the people in this country receive some type of assistance from the government. Needless to say, that can't go on. They just take more and more and more from those of us who do work.
Guess we should all be freeloaders like Kev and move to Canada where insurance is free. ;D
Lotza soldiers and old peeps and people who make and serve ya food and those who were dumped off in the last big purge and workers all around ya are part of that "50%", oh and then there's the corporate and farm welfare... Ya think they were included in the 50%? Wages stagnant, ship jobs offshore, decrease benefits/retirement and watch the middle class turn into the needy class. That "entitlement society" riff is the cheese that FOX sells instead of saying that the number of households receiving aid has gone up because the American people were failed by the business community and taken for a ride by the big boys to the tune of trillions and now need help from the systems that they paid for. No, it's just those bums and Obama's lenient new rules...
I'm interested in the insights into the ACA you were given. What did they say?
DreamTheaterRules — Nov 10, 2013Ironically the first thing I thought when. I saw Chargers post was " here com the libs!" Nothing my doctor said, nor anything my cousin said, had anything to do with their political opinions. Both gave lots of factual information based on professional insight and expert analysis. I gave a real life example of a company owner who had already seen the changes and could not afford to provide what he provides now, once this kicks in, and you guys argue and tell me I am wrong, or my doctor is. I tell you he himself went online to see how much his personal coverage would cost, and you tell me again i am wrong and he doesn't know what he's talking about.
We are in the politics forum. I should know better than to think i could post here without arguments. ;D
I didn't say your doctors cost of insurance was wrong. In fact, I estimated that his cost would actually be more than he told you and even at that, it was chicken shit compared to how much he makes. You can tell he's conservative by his concerns of the cost of his insurance. And, just how you defend him. I really don't give a shit about a very wealthy person's insurance cost going up a tad. I'm more concerned about people who have no coverage at all suddenly having access to doctors for the first time. Thats more important than a doctor bitching about a small increase in cost of insurance. Maybe if he sells one of his ships, ;D, starts driving cars that cost under $100k, and takes vacations in this country for a few years, he won't even notice this increase. :D
And just how does this doctor know that most, or many, whatever
CraigBert — Nov 09, 2013I wonder what happens when you can't possibly pay EITHER the insurance OR the penalty...
Uh, it's subsidized. Do you really not know that?
DreamTheaterRules — Nov 09, 2013You guys need to read more carefully! First of all I did edit my post to say "probably." What my doctor told me was that many if not most smaller companies would not be able to afford it. He said he has another patient who owns a company of around 250 employees, and that (not BS opinions or political scare tactics) he went directly to the web site to see whT it would cost, and that he ca no afford to give them what he always has. He said he would probably give each employee a $4,500 or so stipend, and tell them to get there own insurance.
My cousin, whom I didn't quote on anything above, is an upper mid level executive at one of the highest rated hospitals in the country. What she DID tell me, I won't even bother saying here, until it happens. I am not going to debate what she said after upper management level meetings regarding this topic, with people who read about it on the internet. When they have EXPERTS saying, this is what thwt dhange will mean to us (and all hospitals) and this is what will change in the medical business because of that change, I think I will probably take what she said over what I read in the media or on the internet. :). Keep in mind, I still haven't said anything that she said, only that what she told me went with along with what my doctor told me. And he told me a lot more than the quick post above.
But here's the problem. You're telling me that a doctor at a hospital has a plan so crappy that they cancelled it. Which I find ludicrous. And that his insurance will now cost 1200 a month, with a $13K deductible. And his work isn't giving him any part of that? Oh and coincidentally, that amount is exactly the amount (14,400) I was quoted on the individual exchange, for three kids and a spouse. However, that's because a) I make a lot of money, relative to the poverty level, and b) I live in one of the most expensive healthcare zipcodes in the country. Oh, and? the deductible on that plan is $2000, and the maximum out of pocket is right around $6000 a year. And by that way, that's in the law. So, yeah, I call bullshit because it is bullshit. I looked at plans just to check... my employer is not dropping them, though I can imagine if it becomes more feasible in the future to offer a cash benefit and have employees buy plans on the exchange, they might do that. It's not a bad way to go. Most companies don't want to be in the insurance game, and competitive benefits are competitive benefits. I find it hard to believe that anyone who actually wants to retain or hire talent would drop health plans without offering a pretty good stipend, though. If it's not a zero-sum game for the employee, they can work elsewhere.
DreamTheaterRules — Nov 10, 2013Ironically the first thing I thought when. I saw Chargers post was " here com the libs!" Nothing my doctor said, nor anything my cousin said, had anything to do with their political opinions. Both gave lots of factual information based on professional insight and expert analysis. I gave a real life example of a company owner who had already seen the changes and could not afford to provide what he provides now, once this kicks in, and you guys argue and tell me I am wrong, or my doctor is. I tell you he himself went online to see how much his personal coverage would cost, and you tell me again i am wrong and he doesn't know what he's talking about.
We are in the politics forum. I should know better than to think i could post here without arguments. ;D
Dude, your numbers sound made up. I ran a simulation of a theoretical person making 250K(!) a year, in 45202 zip code, with 3 kids and two adults, and the number I came out with was $8745 a year. And that deductible number? that's utter bullshit. I looked at a few silver plans online and nowhere did I find any that went above 3K for deductible, and above $6350 for total out of pocket costs for a year. Maybe it's just really fucking expensive to get healthcare in the special zipcode (in FantasyLand) where your friend lives. My quote was $14,400 in Silicon Valley, with roughly the same deductible, 2K, and the same yearly max, 6k.
Feel free to run the numbers yourself.
But whatever you do, make sure you don't ever question anything anyone tells you, if you agree with the politics behind it.
http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/
DreamTheaterRules — Nov 08, 2013I had my annual checkup at the doctor this week. What he told me about Obamacare went right along with what my cousin (RN Director at Childrens Hospital Cincinnati), and one of my friends who is an X-ray tech told me. Basically, if you are a working person who has had insurance through your job for years, you are probably going to lose it and you are going to pay out your ASS to get new insurance. My doctor said that if you (couple) make over $90K your deductible will be $13,500 per year. And his cost (Wife and 3 kids for him) was $1,200 per month along with that $13,500 deductible. (This is a direct quote when he looked it up on the new web site!)
If I were you, I'd look for a doctor who doesn't lie to you so blatantly. Who knows if you can trust anything the guy says?
DreamTheaterRules — Nov 10, 2013Ironically the first thing I thought when. I saw Chargers post was " here com the libs!" Nothing my doctor said, nor anything my cousin said, had anything to do with their political opinions. Both gave lots of factual information based on professional insight and expert analysis. I gave a real life example of a company owner who had already seen the changes and could not afford to provide what he provides now, once this kicks in, and you guys argue and tell me I am wrong, or my doctor is. I tell you he himself went online to see how much his personal coverage would cost, and you tell me again i am wrong and he doesn't know what he's talking about.
We are in the politics forum. I should know better than to think i could post here without arguments. ;D
I've run the numbers myself. For both my zipcode and Cincinatti, which I assume to be yours.
None of what I said refuting the complete bullshit you were selling as factual was political in any way. Just FACTS. The problem with your political worldview is that you believe
facts, when they don't support you, are politically motivated. As evidenced by this quoted post. Point to one thing I said in my post that has anything to do with being a liberal?
What bums me out the most about this, DTR, is how easily you dismiss people, including me, and others, when it's convenient, without even bothering to look for the truth. I'm a little tired of hearing how my being a liberal discounts my opinion, but I can live with that. You saying that my being a liberal discounts my
facts, I don't dig that, at all. It's dismissive and effectively removes us both from any discussion, and replaces us with caricatures. Why would you not even bother to check your physician's numbers? I mean, doesn't a 13k deductible sound a little out of whack to you? At all? Why not just check? And then, if I bother to check for you, "here come the libs." This is why politics in our country is so fucked.
Well, theirs no doubt the numbers are off. And, as I guessed earlier, they must be exaggerated quite a bit. This guy makes plenty of money, no reason really to concern himself with this chump change. He's apparently, well, to put it nicely, stretching the truth. If thats the case, he's against Obamacare, which one only has the option to believe that he is conservative. Why would a liberal stretch the truth in that manner? Because liberals believe in helping other less fortunate and are also human. I hate a ignorant lier worst of all. ;D