27 posts
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265508/Peter-Davey-gets-42-000-benefits-year-drives-Mercedes.htmli'm not picking on the UK here either, this mentality exists in the USA as well. and while an extreme case, it gets at the root of what is wrong with society/politics/etc right now. people simply feel the world owes them something. they believe they are entitled to things they simply are not. forget reforming healthcare, if you want to solve some budget problems attack it from this angle
As you said, it's a extreme case. What's the % of extreme cases vs people who need the help? These people are stupid ignorant morans, they probably are part of some religious cult that forbids use of birth control and brains. Really. No shit.
this is one small problem. Attacking this problem alone is a waist of time. Now, take all government programs and see this problem, as government programs and jobs increase, fix that and you have something.
But you can't stop trying to help people because a small portion of fucking loosers take advantage of the benefits that are truely helping others.
Your straight up a republican conservative. No question about it.
this recently came into play because of the health care issue. so much argument went into the "is health care a right" debate. i can't help but wonder what else people feel entitled to as a "right" that has to be subsidized by you, me, and everyone else paying taxes.
Hookbender — Apr 14, 2010
Your straight up a republican conservative. No question about it.
if it's either or, than yes i am. but if i can pick a shade of grey than i prefer not to be labeled a republican if the current republicans are any indication of the term
I don't see this behaviour as a right - it is taking the piss.
But what can be done about it - practically.
Stop people having kids by force, take them away, let them live in abject poverty, starve them,
send in a vet to put them down ?
Ask the general population of America if healthcare is a right, and some half, or maybe more than half, will say yes. Ask them if critically ill, uninsured people who show up in emergency rooms should be allowed to die, and 99% will say no.
So what's the difference? It's just terminology.
Chase, you might be the only person who I have ever talked to who believes those people should be allowed to die. You are in an extreme minority.
And if you don't believe that, then--somebody pays for that healthcare.
To me, the whole debate is just over terminology. Do you believe people should have free (or in this case, controlled cost) healthcare? No. Do you believe sick people should be allowed to die? No. It's Obama's Catch-22, because whether you like him or not, he did the right thing with an issue where there was no winning side.
Imagine the world where the International Red Cross is sending volunteer health clinic workers to the US to set up free health clinics in highly uninsured areas, because the US won't care for it's sick.
we can disagree on the health care part, thats fine. the broader point is entitlements are going to strange us in the coming future. one only has to look to california to see the way that the US is heading.
I don't normally partake in the politics forum but free healthcare is something that I do strongly believe in, from a very personal perspective.
As you may or may not know I am diabetic and have been for 9 years now. I take a lot of medication each day to control it. All of my medication is FREE to me, I do not pay one penny for it. If I did have to pay for it, it would amount to approx £200 per month...that's £50 per week (approx $77 per week = $4004 per year. Now, I could afford to pay for that, but in fact I do pay for it by way of my national insurance contributions. But, what about those that are on lower incomes that could not afford to pay for it. Do we just say "sorry old chum, off you go and just lay down and die"?
Chase, you say entitlements as if they are bad things. They are programs designed to help people who can't help themselves, or can't afford to help themselves. Their will always be the small number of people who will try to take advantage of this help. At some point, you have to feel the desire to help truely needy folks. At some point you have to realize that getting sick later in life shouldn't have to wipe out an entire life of hard work and send people into bankruptcy. It's not right, simple as that.
When you strip life down, the most valuable asset one can have is their health. Think about it.
it's not up to the government to provide things that are "right" or "good" to us. the world is a harsh, unfair place. no amount of government will ever change that fact.
i can list a plethora of things that aren't right in this world, none of which our government has any responsibility over nor should it.
Maybe it is not the government's responsibility to provide things that are "right" for their people. But it is what makes a country desirable, and desirable countries draw business, and jobs, and have higher standards of living. The more hostile this country becomes to PEOPLE, the less power we will have in toto. Look at us now--fractured as fuck, mainly because of greed. Because we can't stomach helping out those less fortunate with a little bit of our money. Dude, I buy $3-5 coffees all the fucking time. And I get free coffee at work--espresso, no less--yet I still feel compelled to buy coffee. All the time! Could I not afford 3-5$ more a day in taxes? Hell yeah. Even $10 more a day. Easily. Honestly, I look at my tax return, and it's insane how much money I get back and how little I pay in taxes, the kind of shit that I can deduct, the amount of my money that ends up being an "entitlement" to me. Money I don't need to get back. If you think that started with Obama, you are insane, my friend. That shit started under the "Great Republican", Ronald Reagan.
Sure, the Europeans tax the shit out of their people, and in turn provide very solid social benefits. Has that made it difficult for Europe to thrive in business? To draw workers? To be sustainable?
Nope. Europe is kicking fucking ass. Not only do businesses thrive there, but people thrive there as well. People like living there. Their money has value. Their standard of living is far higher than ours. We can roll it all back and make it survival of the fittest, leave the poor to die in the streets, allow the rich to get over in any way they can, and arm the populace... and we'll be Nigeria, or Sudan. If that's fine with you, it's not fine with me.
chase — Apr 15, 2010it's not up to the government to provide things that are "right" or "good" to us. the world is a harsh, unfair place. no amount of government will ever change that fact.
i can list a plethora of things that aren't right in this world, none of which our government has any responsibility over nor should it.
Cry me a river man. I didn't say government should provide all human needs. Save your government speaches for someone else.
I'm talking mainly about healthcare. You know, the topic of discussion.
You simply don't care about healthcare, or having healthcare. Your young and rolling the dice. That isn't the smart choice. Its swaying your opinion which will no doubt change on this subject as you get older.
quit talking out of your ass, you have no idea what my personal life is going through right now. would it make a difference if i told you i just found out i'm expecting? without insurance?
i am. i don't have any. i'll be paying for doctors visits out of pocket until i ship out for the army. the actual birth will be covered under TRICARE thankfully. i still don't think insurance should be provided to everybody by the government. it isn't simply something i say without meaning it. i truly think even in the face of massive bills that it isn't a "right".
Talking out my ass??? Just responding to ass apparently.
With all due respect, I care nothing about your personal life. But since you brought it up, your unfortunate situation was easily avoidable. So, you'll get no sympathy from me. I just hope it works out for the best, for you and your partner.(and child of course) And you'll get a first hand experience to see why healthcare is so important.
Obviously this is a emotional topic for you, for some reason. Maybe that is clouding your vision a bit.
Hookbender — Apr 17, 2010Talking out my ass??? Just responding to ass apparently.
With all due respect, I care nothing about your personal life. But since you brought it up, your unfortunate situation was easily avoidable. So, you'll get no sympathy from me. I just hope it works out for the best, for you and your partner.(and child of course) And you'll get a first hand experience to see why healthcare is so important.
Obviously this is a emotional topic for you, for some reason. Maybe that is clouding your vision a bit.
again, you have no idea what you are talking about. it is next to impossible to find an insurance plan that covers pregnancy. i have the $ to purchase almost any insurance coverage i want, but no plan will cover the pregnancy.
what exactly is easily avoidable? birth control? wife was on it... insurance? see the paragraph above.
Yer lucky, imagine if the unexpected was cancer....then you'd have some real bills to worry about.
What state do you live in Chase?
Hookbender — Apr 18, 2010What state do you live in Chase?
Frustration. ;D
Hookbender — Apr 18, 2010What state do you live in Chase?
ky
Are you telling me there is no insurance coverage available in the state of KY that offers insurance to married couples that may, or may not intend, to get pregnant? None? Doesn't exist? Don't make me find coverage. :-/
I hear they get free KY jelly though... ;)
Hookbender — Apr 20, 2010Are you telling me there is no insurance coverage available in the state of KY that offers insurance to married couples that may, or may not intend, to get pregnant? None? Doesn't exist? Don't make me find coverage. :-/
ehealthinsurance.com helped me find 62 plans, none of which carried coverage for a pregnancy after calling and speaking with someone. FYI, it is illegal to consider pregnancy a pre-existing condition which is why its so hard to find coverage for it. the companies know they will have to pay out.
we are close to getting covered by our work, we had a few hoops to jump through first though. once we qualify i'll get the open enrollment information and see if they cover pregnancy. open enrollment isn't till june anyways though.
Man, that seems awfully strange to me. I mean, pregnancy not covered by insurance? Wacked.
Anyway, under the new plan, they can't not cover it, as of 2013...
It doesn't surprise me.
The insurance companies rely on the fact that
people don't actively want get sick.
Pregnancy is not an illness.
It wouldn't make business sense to cover it.
chase — Apr 20, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1271209643/0#19 date=1271728604]Are you telling me there is no insurance coverage available in the state of KY that offers insurance to married couples that may, or may not intend, to get pregnant? None? Doesn't exist? Don't make me find coverage. :-/
ehealthinsurance.com helped me find 62 plans, none of which carried coverage for a pregnancy after calling and speaking with someone. FYI, it is illegal to consider pregnancy a pre-existing condition which is why its so hard to find coverage for it. the companies know they will have to pay out.
we are close to getting covered by our work, we had a few hoops to jump through first though. once we qualify i'll get the open enrollment information and see if they cover pregnancy. open enrollment isn't till june anyways though.
Apparently you tried to get insurance after she was pregnant. Very hard if not impossible at that time. That's one reason you should have insurance, unexpected health issues, even pregnancy. Insurance companies offer riders that are an additional cost, in addition to medical insurance, to cover pregnancy. Assurant(sp)? comes to mind. If your in a lower income level there are programs to help you out. You could get with the hospital your gonna use and work out a payment plan and start prepaying some of the cost. Even the doctor your using may help you some. Doesn't hurt to ask.
I'd be suprised if your new insurance would cover your wife, but good luck anyway.
it's not a big deal honestly. our coverage ran out last year when we graduated college. i let it lapse and *BAM* we get pregnant. she will be covered under my tricare coverage in october. should work out just fine.
i do see the logic behind not covering pregnancy. insurance is a business that is out to make $. it isn't a good decision to cover somebody who will undoubtedly rack up ten grand in bills minimum the first year covered.
Maybe. But options should be available and easy to find. Insurance companies shouldn't be able to pick and choose what they cover to the extreme of pregnancy. They should and some do, offer options for women. That should be mandatory in my opinion. I can see the other side also. But the healthcare changes should help out in this area. It should, if I unserstand it correctly, to a degree, give the same power to individuals as the companies have. Buying power, I mean. So an individual can get pregnancy coverage standard the same way my wife's insurance, for example, works.
Good luck and congrats though, seriously! Children will change your life, big time. It's really fun at times and a lot of hard work too. Very rewarding. My first child really made me grow up, mature. Of course, that's debatable. ;D