The Watering Hole

sucks. It's that simple. Are you watching what's going on right now? And, hey.... anyone here ever watch Mrs Kelly on Fox news and suddenly, for the first time ever, get the urge to hit that decent looking woman in the eye? Well, I should be ashamed I'm sure, but when the news of her age and good looks wears off, I'm sorry, your left with a bitch.  ;D Theirs no way she couldn't be.

I just can't believe, I refuse to believe, we can't have better qualified people in our government than this. From the President on down.

look, the 4million mexicans (no offense intended) Obama is giving a pass or whatever you want to term it, could not have come at a worse time. Economy wise. The burden on our school system etc are gonna be big time. And this isn't nearly the same as Reagan's deal. I thought we were a nation of laws here. And the way it's being done is crazy. How pathetic are we to let these immature road dryed shit terds run our country? I can tell you right now, from the next election forward, I will not vote for a half ass President or anything else. I just think the attitudes of the people in power now are just like the one my 8 year old daughter has. It's just about that level of maturity.

Ahhhh fuck it. Pause...... Again...... Ok. I feel better now.  8-)

It's politics.  I would have liked to see something broader.  But I know that this Congress will do nothing on immigration.  The Republicans have no motivation to do anything.  They felt like they really needed top do something after they got less than 10% of the latino vote in 2012.  But then 2014 happened, and the Republicans won, because white males voted, and no one else did, and so now they feel like they can win the white house without the latino vote again.  They will do nothing.  And regardless of all their bitching about the President, they weren't going to do anything.  My only wish was that Obama really could have done something broad and sweeping.  What he did was relatively minor in reality.

It's just politics, right?   heh heh    Is any of it believable?   hahahahahahah!

charger — Nov 24, 2014It's politics.  I would have liked to see something broader.  But I know that this Congress will do nothing on immigration.  The Republicans have no motivation to do anything.  They felt like they really needed top do something after they got less than 10% of the latino vote in 2012.  But then 2014 happened, and the Republicans won, because white males voted, and no one else did, and so now they feel like they can win the white house without the latino vote again.  They will do nothing.  And regardless of all their bitching about the President, they weren't going to do anything.  My only wish was that Obama really could have done something broad and sweeping.  What he did was relatively minor in reality.

You know, I told you a long time ago this would happen. Obama never stood a chance to get anything done so why the fuck did we vote for him? I'm not doing that again either.

What he did was fair to them and unfair to us and children dumped into the school system. And now it will probably get worse in the future. More "broad and sweeping" is my guess.

Hookbender — Nov 24, 2014[quote author=charger link=1416868907/0#1 date=1416869169]It's politics.  I would have liked to see something broader.  But I know that this Congress will do nothing on immigration.  The Republicans have no motivation to do anything.  They felt like they really needed top do something after they got less than 10% of the latino vote in 2012.  But then 2014 happened, and the Republicans won, because white males voted, and no one else did, and so now they feel like they can win the white house without the latino vote again.  They will do nothing.  And regardless of all their bitching about the President, they weren't going to do anything.  My only wish was that Obama really could have done something broad and sweeping.  What he did was relatively minor in reality.

You know, I told you a long time ago this would happen. Obama never stood a chance to get anything done so why the fuck did we vote for him? I'm not doing that again either.

What he did was fair to them and unfair to us and children dumped into the school system. And now it will probably get worse in the future. More "broad and sweeping" is my guess.


Yeah Hook, why did you vote for him?  hehehehe     What's the deal wif da kids dat Bammer did?

I went against my better judgement. Can't understand the rest of that stuff.

Hookbender — Nov 25, 2014I went against my better judgement. Can't understand the rest of that stuff.

You said something about kids getting dumped into schools, wazzdat?

Well, I guess the damage is done on that one.

Hookbender — Nov 25, 2014Well, I guess the damage is done on that one.

What damage?  What are you talking about?

Hookbender — Nov 24, 2014[quote author=charger link=1416868907/0#1 date=1416869169]It's politics.  I would have liked to see something broader.  But I know that this Congress will do nothing on immigration.  The Republicans have no motivation to do anything.  They felt like they really needed top do something after they got less than 10% of the latino vote in 2012.  But then 2014 happened, and the Republicans won, because white males voted, and no one else did, and so now they feel like they can win the white house without the latino vote again.  They will do nothing.  And regardless of all their bitching about the President, they weren't going to do anything.  My only wish was that Obama really could have done something broad and sweeping.  What he did was relatively minor in reality.

You know, I told you a long time ago this would happen. Obama never stood a chance to get anything done so why the fuck did we vote for him? I'm not doing that again either.

What he did was fair to them and unfair to us and children dumped into the school system. And now it will probably get worse in the future. More "broad and sweeping" is my guess.

I don't think you understand the executive order, or how the school system works. The kids are most likely already in the school system, if they've been here for five years.  The executive order means that the parents now have to pay taxes on their wages.  That's a good thing.  It also reduces the fear of people who've been here, working, for five plus years, of being captured and deported at any moment. Businesses benefit from this... see Forbes...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanielparishflannery/2014/11/24/who-stands-to-benefit-from-obamas-immigration-plan/

charger — Nov 25, 2014[quote author=Hookbender link=1416868907/0#3 date=1416871300][quote author=charger link=1416868907/0#1 date=1416869169]It's politics.  I would have liked to see something broader.  But I know that this Congress will do nothing on immigration.  The Republicans have no motivation to do anything.  They felt like they really needed top do something after they got less than 10% of the latino vote in 2012.  But then 2014 happened, and the Republicans won, because white males voted, and no one else did, and so now they feel like they can win the white house without the latino vote again.  They will do nothing.  And regardless of all their bitching about the President, they weren't going to do anything.  My only wish was that Obama really could have done something broad and sweeping.  What he did was relatively minor in reality.

You know, I told you a long time ago this would happen. Obama never stood a chance to get anything done so why the fuck did we vote for him? I'm not doing that again either.

What he did was fair to them and unfair to us and children dumped into the school system. And now it will probably get worse in the future. More "broad and sweeping" is my guess.

I don't think you understand the executive order, or how the school system works. The kids are most likely already in the school system, if they've been here for five years.  The executive order means that the parents now have to pay taxes on their wages.  That's a good thing.  It also reduces the fear of people who've been here, working, for five plus years, of being captured and deported at any moment. Businesses benefit from this... see Forbes...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanielparishflannery/2014/11/24/who-stands-to-benefit-from-obamas-immigration-plan/


The law is the law and I agree with it. If their here illegally, they should be taken back accross the boarder. Sorry. Just how I feel about this one. And that goes to all people that are here illegally, not just Mexicans. And the boarders should be closed. It's time to make that happen. Actually, it may be to late. I just had a conversation with myself. :-?

Yeah, I completely disagree with you on that.  I think our immigration system is broken in that it doesn't get workers into the country that we need. The people who come over are here because we need them here to do jobs that lazy, entitled Americans won't do, on the low end. I think business owners who rely on their labor agree with me, and I think our entire agricultural and livestock industries would completely collapse without them.  I think the majority of the people recognize this, even many Republicans.  They just don't like Obama, and can't anger their perceived "bases".  Remember when gay marriage was a big deal?  Most Republicans won't even talk about that issue anymore.

Hookbender — Nov 25, 2014
The law is the law and I agree with it.

Weed is illegal in most states, and federally.  There are many laws I don't agree with.

Hookbender — Nov 25, 2014 And the boarders should be closed. It's time to make that happen. Actually, it may be to late. I just had a conversation with myself. :-?

It's not too late, it's just impossible

Not sure how I would do that. I'd have to have some options to choose from.

charger — Nov 25, 2014[quote author=Hookbender link=1416868907/0#10 date=1416957870]
The law is the law and I agree with it.

Weed is illegal in most states, and federally.  There are many laws I don't agree with.

Weed should be the only legal thing coming across the boarder.  ;D

Thats a different thing all together. It's a security risk letting them come over here. Keeping the boarders open simply isn't an option anymore. Nor should it be.

charger — Nov 25, 2014Yeah, I completely disagree with you on that.  I think our immigration system is broken in that it doesn't get workers into the country that we need. The people who come over are here because we need them here to do jobs that lazy, entitled Americans won't do, on the low end. I think business owners who rely on their labor agree with me, and I think our entire agricultural and livestock industries would completely collapse without them.  I think the majority of the people recognize this, even many Republicans.  They just don't like Obama, and can't anger their perceived "bases".  Remember when gay marriage was a big deal?  Most Republicans won't even talk about that issue anymore.

Well, take all the healthy people who say they can't find employment and are getting government help/living free, and make them earn their living. Simple as that. If they refuse, stop the help. I'll bet that after a few weeks of farm work, their lazy asses will find a job real quick like!!

[quote author=BINGEWOOD link=1404776484/225#235 date=1410555578]Hey, does this sound kinda like how you see it?  We should get rid of non temporary gov assistance and there should be no min wage and we go back to pre union conditions, people can work or not work for the big bosss' terms, it's up to them.  This would help with illegal immigration as well because then people who would otherwise not work would take up the jobs that people come here for.  I have heard things like this from right wing pundits and you seemed to hit on some of these talking points, illegals living good, minimum wage is enough to live on, bad decisions to spend all money back into the system, the "couple of people in the projects" who might want to get ahead, etc

Hookbender — Nov 27, 2014[quote author=charger link=1416868907/0#12 date=1416959698][quote author=Hookbender link=1416868907/0#10 date=1416957870]
The law is the law and I agree with it.

Weed is illegal in most states, and federally.  There are many laws I don't agree with.

Weed should be the only legal thing coming across the boarder.  ;D

Thats a different thing all together. It's a security risk letting them come over here. Keeping the boarders open simply isn't an option anymore. Nor should it be.


What's the security risk? Can you quote me some stats on how much crime is committed by people coming into the US illegally?  Did you know that in the European Union, they just have friggin open borders, between every country.  Imagine that.  Just open fucking borders.  Crazy shit.

The security risk? In this day and time, you think it's fine that thousands upon thousands can just walk across our boarder and hang out a decade or 2?  I certainly don't. I don't think I have any need to defend this stance.

Yes. I can believe that, for them. And it's not so crazy, in fact it's simply makes sense for them. But..... it doesn't for us. And how many people actually cross the boarders their with intentions to live in the other country vs the USA? I don't see that as a credible stance in this discussion.

I would rather do everything possible, or attempt to, to protect our country and it's people vs doing nothing and having to explain that to the people's family after their kids get killed. Little extreme there but you get the point. We are a nation of laws..... for a reason. We have a legal means of people entering this country and have had them for years. They are there for a reason. They need to be enforced.

I don't see any opening for you to win this argument.

Hookbender — Dec 03, 2014The security risk? In this day and time, you think it's fine that thousands upon thousands can just walk across our boarder and hang out a decade or 2?  I certainly don't. I don't think I have any need to defend this stance.

Yes. I can believe that, for them. And it's not so crazy, in fact it's simply makes sense for them. But..... it doesn't for us. And how many people actually cross the boarders their with intentions to live in the other country vs the USA? I don't see that as a credible stance in this discussion.

I would rather do everything possible, or attempt to, to protect our country and it's people vs doing nothing and having to explain that to the people's family after their kids get killed. Little extreme there but you get the point. We are a nation of laws..... for a reason. We have a legal means of people entering this country and have had them for years. They are there for a reason. They need to be enforced.

I don't see any opening for you to win this argument.

You can't stop them no matter what you do...  There is no way to "close" the borders, you could spend ALL of the money there is and never "close" them.

What do you think about just about anyone with a passport being able to fly in and hang until caught?  

What about all the other people who's kids get killed here that have nothing to do with the "boarder", do you have to explain anything to them?

Hookbender — Dec 03, 2014The security risk? In this day and time, you think it's fine that thousands upon thousands can just walk across our boarder and hang out a decade or 2?  I certainly don't. I don't think I have any need to defend this stance.

Yes. I can believe that, for them. And it's not so crazy, in fact it's simply makes sense for them. But..... it doesn't for us. And how many people actually cross the boarders their with intentions to live in the other country vs the USA? I don't see that as a credible stance in this discussion.

I would rather do everything possible, or attempt to, to protect our country and it's people vs doing nothing and having to explain that to the people's family after their kids get killed. Little extreme there but you get the point. We are a nation of laws..... for a reason. We have a legal means of people entering this country and have had them for years. They are there for a reason. They need to be enforced.

I don't see any opening for you to win this argument.

I don't see any stats.  I don't see any proof.  All I see is your perception that there's some crime wave coming over the borders.  Personally, I'm way more afraid of angry Americans with guns than I am of illegal immigrants from Mexico.

Dude, I live in California.  I see these people every day. They work hard, they make killer food, they make great music.  They're just people like you and me, only difference is, they left somewhere incredibly violent where they couldn't make a living, to come live somewhere where they could make a living, that was safe.  And they are willing to work in low wage jobs.  Historically and genetically they've got far more claim to this land than you or I.

BINGEWOOD — Dec 03, 2014[quote author=Hookbender link=1416868907/0#19 date=1417571541]The security risk? In this day and time, you think it's fine that thousands upon thousands can just walk across our boarder and hang out a decade or 2?  I certainly don't. I don't think I have any need to defend this stance.

Yes. I can believe that, for them. And it's not so crazy, in fact it's simply makes sense for them. But..... it doesn't for us. And how many people actually cross the boarders their with intentions to live in the other country vs the USA? I don't see that as a credible stance in this discussion.

I would rather do everything possible, or attempt to, to protect our country and it's people vs doing nothing and having to explain that to the people's family after their kids get killed. Little extreme there but you get the point. We are a nation of laws..... for a reason. We have a legal means of people entering this country and have had them for years. They are there for a reason. They need to be enforced.

I don't see any opening for you to win this argument.

You can't stop them no matter what you do...  There is no way to "close" the borders, you could spend ALL of the money there is and never "close" them..

What do you think about just about anyone with a passport being able to fly in and hang until caught?  

What about all the other people who's kids get killed here that have nothing to do with the "boarder", do you have to explain anything to them?


You can control the boarder between the US and Mexico.

I, personally, don't have to explain anything to anyone. Again, we have laws here. We need to enforce them. IMO, if a person kills someone and is found guilty, they shouldn't live. I would jail them for 1 year, just to make sure no new evidence pops up that would prove their innocence, after that, kill em. Then end.

charger — Dec 03, 2014[quote author=Hookbender link=1416868907/0#19 date=1417571541]The security risk? In this day and time, you think it's fine that thousands upon thousands can just walk across our boarder and hang out a decade or 2?  I certainly don't. I don't think I have any need to defend this stance.

Yes. I can believe that, for them. And it's not so crazy, in fact it's simply makes sense for them. But..... it doesn't for us. And how many people actually cross the boarders their with intentions to live in the other country vs the USA? I don't see that as a credible stance in this discussion.

I would rather do everything possible, or attempt to, to protect our country and it's people vs doing nothing and having to explain that to the people's family after their kids get killed. Little extreme there but you get the point. We are a nation of laws..... for a reason. We have a legal means of people entering this country and have had them for years. They are there for a reason. They need to be enforced.

I don't see any opening for you to win this argument.

I don't see any stats.  I don't see any proof.  All I see is your perception that there's some crime wave coming over the borders.  Personally, I'm way more afraid of angry Americans with guns than I am of illegal immigrants from Mexico.

Dude, I live in California.  I see these people every day. They work hard, they make killer food, they make great music.  They're just people like you and me, only difference is, they left somewhere incredibly violent where they couldn't make a living, to come live somewhere where they could make a living, that was safe.  And they are willing to work in low wage jobs.  Historically and genetically they've got far more claim to this land than you or I.

I don't need to show you stats and proof of a known fact. Most aren't criminals, I agree. But the problem is, we really don't know who the fuck these people are or were. That just doesn't get it. It's crazy. We have a legal means of coming to this country. It's law for a reason. No circumstance changes the fact that they have broken the laws we have and shouldn't be here. Simple as that. Hell, if I were a terrorist, I wouldn't fly a plane into a building here, I'd fly to Mexico, grab a few friends and walk across the boarder and do my deeds. thats the security risk I'm referring to more so than the little stuff your referring to.

We have laws here. Our constitution gives us the right to own guns. The problem we have is gun violence isn't dealt with seriously enough. Our laws are not enforced to the degree they need to be and some are probably not strict enough. I mean damn, we have prisons with basketball courts, central air and heat, TV's, workout equipment, etc. Then they say prisons are full. Hell, it's the Hampton Inn for the stupid. Let the pot folks go and make room for real thugs. Dangerous folks. Like prisons were designed for.

If they don't live here legally, pay taxes, and do things the right way, they have no claim to shit here. Your wrong about that. They are, criminals. And your defending them. Thats the reality of the situation. They have no rights here, nor any claim to anything. We just happen to have a political system in the U.S. that lacks the balls to do anything about it. IMO, they are criminals as well. They are not doing what they should be. Which is making sure our laws are enforced, for one.

It doesn't matter what they are willing to do. (The illegals)

Here's a pretty nice one for you. Kind of shows you that guns aren't needed to kill folks also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81ngel_Maturino_Res%C3%A9ndiz

Sure you read about this one or saw it on the news....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/05/suspects-in-murder-border-patrol-agent-arrested-and-deported-numerous-times/

Here are a few more.

http://www.ojjpac.org/memorial.asp

I think that should be enough to change your mind.

Are you fucking kidding me?  You think that if you present a few stories of illegal aliens killing people, that will make me believe that they are a massive source of crime?  That's like me saying that the Columbine, Sandyhook, and Aurora shootings show that white males between 17 and 30 are very likely to commit mass murder, and should be deported, or prematurely jailed.  That's not proof, or facts.  That's hyperbole.  I could make a list 100x that length just of family members who accidentally kill other family members, and it would also not be a factual representation of anything.

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/anecdotes-evidence-setting-record-straight-immigrants-and-crime-0

But harsh immigration policies are not effective in fighting crime because—as numerous studies over the past 100 years have shown—immigrants are less likely to commit crimes or be behind bars than the native-born, and high rates of immigration are not associated with higher rates of crime. This holds true for both legal immigrants and the undocumented, regardless of their country of origin or level of education.

FACTS tell us that illegal immigrants commit far less crime as a percentage of the population than legal immigrants.  Probably because so many people who live here legally are assholes.  

The fact that they are illegal, that they have committed the crime of crossing the border, really doesn't register with me.  Millions of us have broken the law hundreds of times by smoking, purchasing, and probably even distributing weed, etc.  So what?  Some laws are stupid.  We live on stolen land, all the original inhabitants are stuffed into tiny ghettoized reservations.  The mere fact that a bunch of Europeans claimed ownership holds little weight in an increasingly global world.  

Hookbender — Dec 03, 2014
You can control the boarder between the US and Mexico.

I, personally, don't have to explain anything to anyone. Again, we have laws here. We need to enforce them. IMO, if a person kills someone and is found guilty, they shouldn't live. I would jail them for 1 year, just to make sure no new evidence pops up that would prove their innocence, after that, kill em. Then end.

Yeah, you can just do it

charger — Dec 03, 2014Are you fucking kidding me?  You think that if you present a few stories of illegal aliens killing people, that will make me believe that they are a massive source of crime?  That's like me saying that the Columbine, Sandyhook, and Aurora shootings show that white males between 17 and 30 are very likely to commit mass murder, and should be deported, or prematurely jailed.  That's not proof, or facts.  That's hyperbole.  I could make a list 100x that length just of family members who accidentally kill other family members, and it would also not be a factual representation of anything.

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/anecdotes-evidence-setting-record-straight-immigrants-and-crime-0


But harsh immigration policies are not effective in fighting crime because—as numerous studies over the past 100 years have shown—immigrants are less likely to commit crimes or be behind bars than the native-born, and high rates of immigration are not associated with higher rates of crime. This holds true for both legal immigrants and the undocumented, regardless of their country of origin or level of education.

FACTS tell us that illegal immigrants commit far less crime as a percentage of the population than legal immigrants.  Probably because so many people who live here legally are assholes.  

The fact that they are illegal, that they have committed the crime of crossing the border, really doesn't register with me.  Millions of us have broken the law hundreds of times by smoking, purchasing, and probably even distributing weed, etc.  So what?  Some laws are stupid.  We live on stolen land, all the original inhabitants are stuffed into tiny ghettoized reservations.  The mere fact that a bunch of Europeans claimed ownership holds little weight in an increasingly global world.  

No. I don't think those stories would make you believe that at all. That wasn't my intention. If you were to read and comprehend "everything" you read in my post, you would know that. And I never said that all Mexican people here illegally commit crime, either. Your making stuff up.

However, my stories do show cause for concern and are evidence that open boarders come at a price. IMO, I'd do everything in my power to close them for reasons like the one's in those stories. It's just sound logic.

A little insight. I've always hated rules. When I managed grocery stores I eliminated all rules. 1st day on the job. 1st on my to do list. As a group of employees, everyone had to agree on the rule. It had to be followed, no way around it. If you didn't follow the rule, you new the consequences. Everyone knew the course of action that would be taken. It was damn hard for me to let any rules be put in place. Eventually, people caught on. Training. If you train people how to do their job, and make it serious shit... not just routine bullshit.... you don't need many rules. But if you take the time to make a rule, it's serious shit if you don't follow the rule. I feel the same about laws. If you have them, follow them. I also think they need to be adjusted or done away with, or added to as needed. I like order, organization. Take that for what it is....

Look, if I sold weed and got caught, I know what's gonna happen, or potentially could happen way in advance. And if i did that and was caught, well fuck, it's not the cops fault, it's mine. I broke the law. I have no place bitching about the results of getting caught. I took the chance. The Mexican people crossing the boarder know that as well. They took the risk. Hell, they knew they could die before they even got to the boarder. We have laws, they should be enforced or done away with.

Now if your talking about the Indians, they really got fucked way bad, I agree. I've always been interested in reading Indian books, even as a kid. I did book reports on Red Cloud and a few others in school. For some reason, that group of people interest me. Even as a kid I couldn't believe they got screwed so bad. 5th grade, that's when I read my first story about Red Cloud. Really liked him.    

There is no interest in stopping workers from coming here from those that cry to close the border.  They would make extremely stiff penalties for employers and enforce them if that was the case.  It's a joke concept put out there for you to repeat and to scare you into giving them, or letting them keep their, jobs working for the government they are "against"

[quote author=BINGEWOOD link=1416868907/25#28 date=1417659932]There is no interest in stopping workers from coming here from those that cry to close the border.  They would make extremely stiff penalties for employers and enforce them if that was the case.  It's a joke concept put out there for you to repeat and to scare you into giving them, or letting them keep their, jobs working for the government they are "against"

[quote author=BINGEWOOD link=1416868907/25#28 date=1417659932]There is no interest in stopping workers from coming here from those that cry to close the border.  They would make extremely stiff penalties for employers and enforce them if that was the case.  It's a joke concept put out there for you to repeat and to scare you into giving them, or letting them keep their, jobs working for the government they are "against"

[quote author=charger link=1416868907/25#29 date=1417731062][quote author=BINGEWOOD link=1416868907/25#28 date=1417659932]There is no interest in stopping workers from coming here from those that cry to close the border.  They would make extremely stiff penalties for employers and enforce them if that was the case.  It's a joke concept put out there for you to repeat and to scare you into giving them, or letting them keep their, jobs working for the government they are "against"

[quote author=Hookbender link=1416868907/25#31 date=1417731784][quote author=charger link=1416868907/25#29 date=1417731062][quote author=BINGEWOOD link=1416868907/25#28 date=1417659932]There is no interest in stopping workers from coming here from those that cry to close the border.  They would make extremely stiff penalties for employers and enforce them if that was the case.  It's a joke concept put out there for you to repeat and to scare you into giving them, or letting them keep their, jobs working for the government they are "against"

[quote author=BINGEWOOD link=1416868907/25#32 date=1417738061][quote author=Hookbender link=1416868907/25#31 date=1417731784][quote author=charger link=1416868907/25#29 date=1417731062][quote author=BINGEWOOD link=1416868907/25#28 date=1417659932]There is no interest in stopping workers from coming here from those that cry to close the border.  They would make extremely stiff penalties for employers and enforce them if that was the case.  It's a joke concept put out there for you to repeat and to scare you into giving them, or letting them keep their, jobs working for the government they are "against"

Not to be a total dick but I don't think you would know what to think about work permits until you are told by whatever partisan media you absorb and regurgitate.

BINGEWOOD — Dec 05, 2014Not to be a total dick but I don't think you would know what to think about work permits until you are told by whatever partisan media you absorb and regurgitate.

Yeah, but you were being a total dick because you know that's not the case. My opinion on things are different than yours. At least equal in validity as yours with the exception that I'm correct about the boarders needing to be closed. Not sure why that inspires you to be a dick to me, if that's what your doing.

Work permits are what Bammer is doing.  You brought it up this way "look, the 4million mexicans (no offense intended) Obama is giving a pass or whatever you want to term it, could not have come at a worse time. Economy wise. The burden on our school system etc are gonna be big time. And this isn't nearly the same as Reagan's deal. "  I asked what you were talking about, you don't seem to be able to say what you mean.  I have to think that you are repeating the things I hear conservopundits spew without playing out whatever they are babbling about.  I am usually interested in what they mean, I never hear it.

In this case "closing" the BORDER would lead to a loss of "good thing" workers without work permits being given out.  If the BORDER could, somehow, be "closed" you would hear the same voices that cried for closure cry for work permits.  But don't worry, the BORDER will not be "closed", but a lot of taxpayer cash will be spent along the way.

Has the border ever been closed?  Why is that?  

What's truly crazy are the drug gangs running tingz across the border, they get a lot of taxpayers' money too

We've never experienced this kind of flood of illegal people crossing our boarders. It makes no sense to leave them open, pretty much. What do I mean? I mean close the boarders.

I really don't care about what fox and msmbc are saying or will say. I gave you my opinion. Not theirs.

We have never had this number of people crossing our boarder illegally from Mexico.

they should be closed. We allow, I think, around a million people here a year legally. More than any other country. Thats plenty.

The boarders may have never been closed maybe, but we have had similar problems. We made laws to fix this problem after it became a problem. Now, we have laws in place that should be enforced, but they are ignored. The law is the law. It should be enforced or done away with, or changed in some way.

You are speaking in buzzwords and wishes, my friend.

Who would it hurt? The agriculture industry, first and foremost.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/04/agriculture-industry-e-verify-illegal-immigration_n_871391.html

Many many other industries as well.

I can't tell where you get any of your "facts" because most of them are not facts at all.  I can't find anywhere where there is even an estimate of the number of people in this country, or coming over the borders every year, yet you state as fact that there have never been as many illegal immigrants as there are now.  Back it up.  For my part, I believe you are wrong, and I believe I have the facts to back it up, though all available sources seem to end tracking in 2011.



As you can see the peak of illegal immigration was 2007... since then it has declined.  Meanwhile, US population has continued to grow. So both in terms of overall numbers and in terms of as a percentage of the US, illegal immigration is not at a point that "has never been higher."  When I read what you write, I often think you just heard someone spouting off and used their words without doing any research on it yourself.  That's fine. I get it.  You don't like illegal immigration.  Feel free to give your house back to the American Indians.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/11/19/your-complete-guide-to-obamas-immigration-order/

Don't worry Hook, the migrant workers aren't covered.

charger — Dec 05, 2014Who would it hurt? The agriculture industry, first and foremost.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/04/agriculture-industry-e-verify-illegal-immigration_n_871391.html

Many many other industries as well.

I can't tell where you get any of your "facts" because most of them are not facts at all.  I can't find anywhere where there is even an estimate of the number of people in this country, or coming over the borders every year, yet you state as fact that there have never been as many illegal immigrants as there are now.  Back it up.  For my part, I believe you are wrong, and I believe I have the facts to back it up, though all available sources seem to end tracking in 2011.



As you can see the peak of illegal immigration was 2007... since then it has declined.  Meanwhile, US population has continued to grow. So both in terms of overall numbers and in terms of as a percentage of the US, illegal immigration is not at a point that "has never been higher."  When I read what you write, I often think you just heard someone spouting off and used their words without doing any research on it yourself.  That's fine. I get it.  You don't like illegal immigration.  Feel free to give your house back to the American Indians.

Can't remember where I got that number. However, it does seem I've read some non-factual information. I apologize for that. After reading somewhat old studies, some back to 2005, it doesn't seem to hurt the economy to let these people come here and apparently doesn't effect American job wages negatively. My bad again. I let my guard down and didn't pay close attention to what I was reading.

However, I'm still for closing the boarders, especially the Mexican boarder. For the reasons I mentioned. Security, it's against the law to cross the boarder, etc.

I admit I just briefly read through this, but it gives some interesting information and stats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States

Hookbender — Dec 05, 2014[quote author=charger link=1416868907/25#39 date=1417804956]Who would it hurt? The agriculture industry, first and foremost.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/04/agriculture-industry-e-verify-illegal-immigration_n_871391.html

Many many other industries as well.

I can't tell where you get any of your "facts" because most of them are not facts at all.  I can't find anywhere where there is even an estimate of the number of people in this country, or coming over the borders every year, yet you state as fact that there have never been as many illegal immigrants as there are now.  Back it up.  For my part, I believe you are wrong, and I believe I have the facts to back it up, though all available sources seem to end tracking in 2011.



As you can see the peak of illegal immigration was 2007... since then it has declined.  Meanwhile, US population has continued to grow. So both in terms of overall numbers and in terms of as a percentage of the US, illegal immigration is not at a point that "has never been higher."  When I read what you write, I often think you just heard someone spouting off and used their words without doing any research on it yourself.  That's fine. I get it.  You don't like illegal immigration.  Feel free to give your house back to the American Indians.

Can't remember where I got that number. However, it does seem I've read some non-factual information. I apologize for that. After reading somewhat old studies, some back to 2005, it doesn't seem to hurt the economy to let these people come here and apparently doesn't effect American job wages negatively. My bad again. I let my guard down and didn't pay close attention to what I was reading.

However, I'm still for closing the boarders, especially the Mexican boarder. For the reasons I mentioned. Security, it's against the law to cross the boarder, etc.

I admit I just briefly read through this, but it gives some interesting information and stats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States


I'm actually more concerned about the Canadian border.  I just believe it's more likely that's where a terrorist would come through.  I have no information to back that up besides my gut feeling, but it just seems more likely to me.

then close it. Close em all or enforce the laws we already have.

Look, I have a Mexican family living next door to me. Much larger home than mine by at least double the sq footage. 2 families living in 1 home.

At first, I was like oh shit, what the hells going on here. I hope they aren't loud and keep their yard up, etc. Pretty much what I'd think about anyone moving next door. They are damn good neighbors. Work all day everyday. They keep the yard up great, very quiet. Can't really speak to them, they speak no english at all, except one of the wives are British, she speaks english. So, we wave and smile at each other and go about our business. Great neighbors.

I'm really not against Mexican folks, I'm against letting people cross our boarder without knowing who they are, or anything at all about them. Not to mention the security risk. So, if their are similar risk in other areas, such as Canada, that needs to be addressed as well.

Be kinda nice if all neighbors were like that, except the ones with big boobs and tan legs.  ;D (females, be sure I clarify that.)