I have been following the US election run up with interest. Firstly I can't believe that the only choice you have is between these two bozo's as it seems to me whoever wins you are fucked either way. I think the worst of the 2 options has to be Hillary Clinton. Such an awful person who will not do well on the international stage at all and most likely go on to cause wars and conflict around the world that will affect us all in my opinion
How on earth did the US get to this point ?
I think this will be the most consequential election of my lifetime (since Nixon), no matter the outcome.
That's about all I can say about it with any confidence.
And I've never had the strong sense that either choice will have dramatic yet starkly different consequences before... it's an unnerving feeling.
It's like the country is outside a plane without a parachute - we don't get to decide whether to jump or put on a parachute anymore. Impact is going to happen, the only question is what we'll be hitting after the free fall of election season.
JongG, I find it interesting that you think former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will not do well on the international stage... the obvious inference being, that Donald Trump, who has spent much of the election cycle berating other countries, discarding the idea of trade, deriding the idea of defending our allies, and railing on immigrants from every country, while trumpeting his "secret plan to defeat ISIS", would somehow be good on the international stage? I'm not sure where you get your news, but it would be hard for anyone to make the case that Trump is somehow better for the international community... Even Donald Trump would not make that case... he says in every speech, "America first." Unless you;re talking about Russia, and then I think he would be pretty good.
From what I see, a lot of the American perspective depends on how you think the country is doing. If you think America is doing pretty well, the economy is doing pretty well, and America's policies are fairly reasonable, and Obama did a pretty good job, you're a lot more likely to vote for Clinton.
If you think America is failing, the economy is in a shambles, and America's policies are horrible, you're more likely to vote for Donald Trump.
Myself, I'd vote for Obama again if I could, and I see a lot of massive success in my state, and in my country, economically, socially, and politically. My family and most of my friends have been really successful for the last few years, as has my industry and the state I live in. It's hard for me to point to anything that sucks, except that Americans keep shooting each other, and it's hard to find a looper pedal that does everything I want, at a good price. Maybe if I lived somewhere where the economy was shit, the local coal mine was shutting down, and the weather sucked, I'd feel differently.
The idea that Clinton is a worse PERSON than Trump and the worse of the two candidates for our President is pretty damn hilarious.
(JonG) You're the first person I've seen not from this country to express this opinion. Mostly because unless you seek it out, you haven't been bombarded constantly by the 25 years of shitting on her by our right-wing news outlets and pundits (and every misogynist uncle in our families) and the false-equivalence-loving sensationalist mainstream media. It shocks me that you think she's awful.
I mean, I had that opinion until I did my homework on her "awfulness", and I still am not a huge fan, but Trump is a demagogue who wants to be a dictator. It's not even a question who's better suited to the job.
November 8th will be the true test of just how stupid America can be. We may set a new record! :)
Tripper
P.S. This discussion gets me thinking: I wonder what Hookbender is up to...anyone talk to him?
Well, on the plus side, the Republican party is a steaming pile of hypocrisy and almost everyone can see that now. So that's something.
What's really unfortunate is that this is one more election that brings us no closer to "compromise". I have not seen a single republican (now that Hillary is heavily favored) running on the idea of "I can work with her." It's all "we need to be a check on Hillary," "we need to stop Hillary." Reminds me a lot of Mitch McConnell's "my goal is to make Obama a one-term president." Imagine the good these people could do if they worked together for the country for the next 4 or 8 years... or the last 4 or 8. It's getting to be pretty depressing overall. I mean, the country is still doing well, without the Congress, but it could be better.
And on your earlier point of "how on earth did the US get to this point," we were asking the same thing about Brexit,and how on earth Britain got to that point. It's not as if political stupidity is something the US holds a patent on.
Politicians from around the world are firstly viewed as personalities from the outside. Now, as a "personality" Clinton stinks big time, especially with the fake smile that comes across her face at the most inappropriate times when talking about serious issues....almost looks retarded at times. So before you flame me for that comment, I am observing this from the outside and have no experience of her from your perspective, but again from the outside looking in, oh dear what a mistake she will be. Trump of course is really no better, other than he does talk a lot of sense when it comes to Russia (or appears to from the news that we see), however Clinton appears to be far too aggressive when it comes to international relationships.....of the two I firmly believe that Hillary will be the one take the US into much broader international conflict and that is an extremely dangerous thing in these times. I think my original observation that you are fucked whichever of these two bozo's becomes president stands firm and it really is a sorry state of affairs to have to choose between two such lame leaders. How can they possibly be the best that could be on offer ?
It will be interesting to see how this develops.
Jon — Oct 26, 2016Politicians from around the world are firstly viewed as personalities from the outside. Now, as a "personality" Clinton stinks big time, especially with the fake smile that comes across her face at the most inappropriate times when talking about serious issues....almost looks retarded at times. So before you flame me for that comment, I am observing this from the outside and have no experience of her from your perspective, but again from the outside looking in, oh dear what a mistake she will be. Trump of course is really no better, other than he does talk a lot of sense when it comes to Russia (or appears to from the news that we see), however Clinton appears to be far too aggressive when it comes to international relationships.....of the two I firmly believe that Hillary will be the one take the US into much broader international conflict and that is an extremely dangerous thing in these times. I think my original observation that you are fucked whichever of these two bozo's becomes president stands firm and it really is a sorry state of affairs to have to choose between two such lame leaders. How can they possibly be the best that could be on offer ?
It will be interesting to see how this develops.
A leader doesn't have to be loved by the rest of the world to be effective. That said, I think Hillary was a quite well-respected Secretary of State IIRC... even the Republicans were saying nice things about her, right up until Benghazi. From the outside, I guess it looks different. I am of the opinion that are very few woman who are powerful politicians that men are going to respect anyway. I mean, look at Angela Merkel. I think if she was a man doing the exact same job she'd be getting much more praise and much less venom. Same with Hillary. "Fake smile"? If we were electing on appearance, we'd be fucked. These are two old-ass, unattractive candidates.
I don't believe we are fucked either way. That's the same thing people have said in every election for the last 40 years, and it's never proven true until GW Bush's second term, when the economy slid off a cliff. Sure, we got involved in Iraq and Afghanistan and 9/11 happened in his first term, all shitty things, none of which destroyed the country. But on the whole, this country does really well, regardless of the president. I don't think Hillary would destroy the country, and I don't think Donald would destroy the country. I think they will make different choices which will have varying effects. I guess seeing it from the outside you don't see how divisive it is internally. Trump has wreaked so much ill will among fairly important minority groups in this country that he has become toxic to a large part of the electorate. Hillary is also toxic for a minority group: white male Republicans-- a much smaller part of the electorate.
Hillary is also toxic for a minority group: white male Republicans
Oh, you mean the deplorables. ;D
I just can't see anything that makes me think Trump has any part of the American people in his best interest, other than to further pad his pocket. I agree that we could survive it.
I have already weighed in on paper, so we'll see.
Record set!!!!! Call Guinness, do we at least get a prize or a listing or somthin'?!!!!
Whaaa whaaa whaa whaaa (sad trombone)!!!!!