The Watering Hole

this should be fun, discuss....

i'll start.

complete waste of tax dollars on a losing battle
incredible untapped revenue stream (taxed marijuana anybody?)
societies views have evolved past the reefer madness days. without john rockefeller pot would be legal today anyways

I agree. Next.

War?  Riiiight... :-?

I can't resist a war on an abstract noun.
War on peace would be cool

http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm

I don't know if the pot arrest figure is correct, I'll assume it is, rediculous. That tells me that simply making pot legal would free up much need law enforcement for real crime. No wonder the police force is so pitiful. I'm not sayng it's the police forces fault, it's probably coming from much higher up.

Agreed.  War on drugs is the stupidest war ever.

Next.

charger — Feb 15, 2010Agreed.  War on drugs is the stupidest war ever.

Next.

Is it any dumber than wars where lots of people die?

Can we start a war on stupidity instead?

CraigBert — Feb 15, 2010[quote author=charger link=1266033015/0#7 date=1266192848]Agreed.  War on drugs is the stupidest war ever.

Next.

Is it any dumber than wars where lots of people die?

Can we start a war on stupidity instead?

more people died in the war on drugs last year in Mexico alone than the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

CraigBert — Feb 15, 2010Can we start a war on stupidity instead?

I'm with Craig on this one.

And 100% with you, though, Chase. The war on drugs is insane.

But veering off into hippie-land,  how about a war on war? What the fuck does it ever do except bankrupt countries and leave people dead? How much money is wasted on militarism and nationalism on this planet?

I guess if we make great strides in the war on stupidity we'll have far fewer wars, so...
Tripper

Tripper — Feb 16, 2010[quote author=CraigBert link=1266033015/0#8 date=1266198686]Can we start a war on stupidity instead?

I'm with Craig on this one.

And 100% with you, though, Chase. The war on drugs is insane.

But veering off into hippie-land,  how about a war on war? What the fuck does it ever do except bankrupt countries and leave people dead? How much money is wasted on militarism and nationalism on this planet?

I guess if we make great strides in the war on stupidity we'll have far fewer wars, so...
Tripper

war is a great fix for an economy. see WWII for example....

chase — Feb 16, 2010

war is a great fix for an economy. see WWII for example....

Simplistic analysis,
Generally war is an economic disaster

prior to WWII the world was in a depression exacerbated by moronic fiscal policies of the kind you espouse today.

WWII meant that policy was dumped and an enforced kenysian government spending boom esused that lo and behold finally lifted the decade of economic depression.

Well for the US at least who pretty much unscathed by WWII economically.

For everyone else WWII was more of an economic disaster than a beneficial lift out of a depression.

But yes war can be used to disguise keynsian economics in action by right wing governments and commentators.

The typical rabid right could not sanction such a betrayal of it's ideological dogma on spending on  public healthcare or education etc.
When the right recognises the need for keynes its preferred method of boosting government spending is War.

if not keynes than what school of thought do you follow? don't say the chicago school, it's more pro free market than keynes is.

I don't follow any school - it is horses for courses.

You missed the point of the post - Keynes is generally despised by free market ideologues as he advocates a role for government.

In particularly government spending in a depression is key to getting out of a deflationary spiral.

War is simply one way for the government to spend money

and the only time that free market ideologues will admit keynsian economics work is with the WW2 example, when the opposite is true - War was the only way to get the free market ideologues  in government during the depression to adopt Keynesian policies

fingers — Feb 16, 2010I don't follow any school - it is horses for courses.

You missed the point of the post - Keynes is generally despised by free market ideologues as he advocates a role for government.

In particularly government spending in a depression is key to getting out of a deflationary spiral.

War is simply one way for the government to spend money

and the only time that free market ideologues will admit keynsian economics work is with the WW2 example, when the opposite is true - War was the only way to get the free market ideologues  in government during the depression to adopt Keynesian policies

im not advocating one over the other. i am simply curious as to your thoughts

OK what I think in a nutshell.

economics is not a science it is a social science.
models based on human behaviour and that behaviour doesn't fit idealised mechanistic models.
It also changes over time and circumstances.

Human Behaviour "games" the system - it is how humans are built - even holy joes take the free banana like the highly evolved ape that they are.

A theory that worked in one time and circumstance doesn't necessarily directly apply to another time and situation as the game changes.

Left to its own devices human nature departs from the ideal of the free market and "games" the market into monopolies, cartels and other corruptions and worse - then economic power is used to "game" the political system.

Which ends up with effective tyranny of the few - an Oligarchy.
The only defence against that  is the health of the Political system to break up those degenerative processes and keep the market system healthy - using the economic theories most suitable to the scenario.

Politics and Economics are the ugly sisters though and entwined in that trade off.

Economically this crisis requires Keynesism  to survive with a pretty severe bout of Monetarism to follow.

You will get your wish in the next few years -
Once it has been decided that fatal bullet has been dodged.
i.e. The risk that the financial system is about to fall over in the chaos of a Mad Max nuclear winter scenario is past.

Then we shall have an inevitable reduction of state spending and debt accumulation.

And the  huge recession which has been pushed of until the system can withstand it - Will Begin.