138 posts
Dude, you make no sense at all. You like tax cuts. You've said it a bunch of times. So you should be thrilled with Obama, even though he pretty much has no choice on tax cuts now. But now tax cuts are a big negative to you? No matter what he does you aren't going to like him.
Cut taxes right now would do nothing but add to the debt we have. Obama does have a choice. Hope and Change.
What part does the legislative branch play, Wishy Starchild?
Way to flip flop on tax cuts again btw...and you did it while parroting Charger to Charger, bravo!
So let's just get on record here.
You don't think the Bush tax cuts should be extended?
Now, let's hear who you voted for in the last election, and what their positions were on the Bush tax cuts.
Hookbender — Dec 02, 2010Cut taxes right now would do nothing but add to the debt we have. Obama does have a choice. Hope and Change.
Wow!!
Actually allowing the Bush cuts to expire amounts to raising taxes.
So you have gone from tax cuts to raising taxes - quite a journey.
How much choice has Obama got in this,
it isn't his decision.
Congress will decide,
Read this article from Bloomberg, all of it.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_33/b4191056654282.htm
A nice pic
http://images.businessweek.com/mz/10/33/1033taxcuts58.pdf
Now that is all non partisan, debate from there
I posted that article like 5 times. I doubt Hook will ever read it...
Hookbender — Dec 02, 2010Cut taxes right now would do nothing but add to the debt we have. Obama does have a choice. Hope and Change.
Do you read the news?
You do realize, then, that senate republicans have vowed to block all legislation until the bush tax cuts are extended?
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/12/01/5559969-gop-to-block-all-bills-until-tax-cuts-are-addressed
So, tell me again what choice Obama has.
Gonna be pretty hard to exercise hope and change if you can't inspire the congress and senate to help ya out. What kind of leader do we have when he can't sell his motto to the people who he works with? Makes hope and change seem to be a straight out get elected lie. Maybe if he put as much effort in the beginning to the hope and change thingy as he did the healthcare expenditure things would be much better right now.
The rich should get no tax deduction. Shouldn't be considered, period.
You liberals better start looking at the whole picture and quit worrying about picking up little things I say and taking them out of context. Look at the big picture. Everything I've said, not just little parts here and there. You sure you guys aren't old record playing dj's? The spin is pretty good here. Just don't fly with me.
Who did you vote for? Are the people you voted for pushing for an end to the tax cuts for the rich?
Interesting to hear you shift blame. You vowed to vote for the party that's now holding the Senate hostage, and now you have nothing to say for that vote except that even THAT is Obama's fault.
Lemme sum up your last year of posts, and your next two years of posts.
OBAMA FAULT.
Simple, clean.
Hookbender — Dec 06, 2010You liberals better start looking at the whole picture and quit worrying about picking up little things I say and taking them out of context. Look at the big picture. Everything I've said, not just little parts here and there. You sure you guys aren't old record playing dj's? The spin is pretty good here. Just don't fly with me.
But you don't have a big picture ::)
Or are you making a joke - you tea partiers only have one little picture in mind -
Obama's fault
Obama must fail
Obama's fault
Obama must fail
The "conservatives" want the cuts to be PERMANENT and set at current rates where the cuts baloon for the the very wealthy. The "liberals" want the tax cuts for the "middle class" only. The compromise is a temporary extension for all. Bambam wants unemployment to be extended and the new start deal as well etc. so he'll deal it up. Another "centrist" conclusion.
The more extreme ends are - no tax cuts at all - and - no taxes.
If you want to keep your tax cuts during war and bad times and you complain about the debt, you must really love the way the cake tastes when you have it.
No, no... it seems that hook DOESN'T like tax cuts. Or, he does, but not for rich people. So he voted Teapublican to send a message, and that message was...
"Big Picture" seems like a good subject for a song
Hook has a a big picture like Stratman, and a political party to follow.
One where the big picture doesn't involve mere detail.
A belief manifesto is what is needed,
A big mother fucking stupid one - with no detail.
Better than that detail used by enemy to confuse - they maken out we we are wrong mah.
His terminology shows he has taken that jump, he is now identifying himself with the oppponents of the "enemy" which is liberals.
Liberals convinced him to vote for Obama and lose the faith.
Man how could Hook be so stupid
It's not about arguing economics, science, ethics - at least some debateable point is not what it is about.
It's about the big picture - God.
;D ;D I told you you'f be calling me a preacher pretty soon. ;D ;D
The enemy is not liberals or conservatives. They don't exist in my world because both those parties get elected on lies. The enemy is defiance of straight up common sense ideas, not Palins shit, to get us out of this mess. Obama doesn't want Bush tax cuts extended, but he's considering it. I agree with him on every point of that. Extending Bush tax cuts. But not for the rich. That should be out of the question. And the Bush tax cuts should be extended for as little time as possible, maybe a year or 2. Two would probably be better, and my choice.
I wouldn't do anything that hurts the economy, or could hurt the economy, or small business right now. Tax the rich, cut government spending...the budget, line by line....and come up with ways to catch people taking advantage of the system, government programs, and if you can't do that, do away with them and come up with a better system. Very hard but very possible.
The funny thing about your defense of Obama is the fact that he's slowly converting to Bush's agenda and tactics to the letter and your still defending him. He's doing the exact same thing Bush did but worse on the spending side. Incredible. I think you liberals really liked Bush. :D Maybe you need a reality check.
charger — Dec 06, 2010No, no... it seems that hook DOESN'T like tax cuts. Or, he does, but not for rich people. So he voted Teapublican to send a message, and that message was...
When did I vote, period? What the hell are you talking about?
How exactly would you get your (Obama's manifesto ) tax policy through the republicans in congress, they were threatening to block everything - including a nuclear treaty in order to keep tax cuts for "all" Americans.
You would be the first to bitch like hell if he dug his heels in and created dead lock over that.
Man - you need to pay heed to things more before you spout off about your "big picture".
You don't even know what is going on day by day let alone have any claim to insight.
You can't even make your own mind up in one sentence.
Just a bag fart and cliche farts at that. :D
I know plenty but not all. I dig change, but I wouldn't simply hope for it. My motto would be, Yes I Can, not yes we can. We isn't change. We is the same. Fix simple, work towards hard.
Drink some beer and laugh as the old timers get pissed.
Change is good only if change is good.
;D ;D
Hmmmm, I farted. :D
This is getting boring.
It's not that you disagree with us, Hook, it's that you've abandoned reason to maintain your position on the issues of the deficit, the economy, and taxes.
I'm extremely pissed off at the president right now because his tax policy is moronic. He's caving to the idiot Republican idea that cutting taxes right now helps us. It won't. Few economists agree with the idea of extending the Bush tax cuts, and the vast majority of them are either partisans or in the pockets of the wealthy.
BUT I can acknowledge that the vast majority of decisions he's made regarding the economy have been smart (or at least well-advised) ones, as recent history has shown. Job numbers have not gone up as fast as some have hoped, but they are up. When you have companies not willing to invest in the American worker anymore and they're getting breaks like other companies, well, it makes more economic sense for them to outsource.
I don't think you're a teatard, I just think you're ignoring anything that contradicts your preconceived notions about the job Obama has done, and no matter how many piles of evidence the people who disagree with you provide, you maintain your fiction that he's done nothing and changed everything at the same time, much like the retards in the tea party, on Fox News, and on talk radio.
It's the same thinking that got people like Charger and me called "traitors" back in '04 for being against Bush's policies. I respect everyone's right to disagree, but the actions of the GOP and many people on Fox and right-wing radio are far worse than any dis by a Dixie Chick, and the comment she made pretty much ruined their career. Same shit happening here, but worse, because they're actively trying to undermine his authority - and yet the GOP and teatards have no problem with it when it's not their guy. I don't consider them traitors, but they're too stupid to realize what they're doing is far worse than all of us "whiny libruls" did.
It's disappointing to see that you've become more a part of that constituency than the one that operates with eyes open and brain engaged, that's all.
Tripper
It's simple. If you voted for the Republicans in this cycle, then, no matter what message you were TRYING to send, the message you DID send was this:
"Extend the Bush tax cuts for everyone." Because that was the message Republicans took away from the election, and they then actually proclaimed that they would hold the government hostage and filibuster EVERY PIECE OF LEGISLATION until Obama agreed to extend the Bush tax cuts, not just for the middle class, but for the wealthy, too.
Hookie Sanders in the house y'all!!!
I haven't abandoned reason Trip. I've abandoned accepting excuses for stupid decisions. Now it seems his advisors are worried about the damn economy and Obama doesn't want a big long tax debate. He wasn't to worried about the economy while he spent a year fucking with healthcare. This tax cut thing is damn important to change, changing washington. But he took a shit on it and it pisses me off also. Mainly extending the cuts for the wealthy.
I have abandoned parties though. Both of them, all of them. It doesn't take much reasoning skill to come to the conclusion that our deficit is a huge problem. Spending is a huge problem. And thats my stance, and will continue to be.
And after all this spending he's done, now he wants to add tax cuts to the picture on top of of that?? Crazy as hell. Stupid.
I don't pretend to have all the right answers. But the position I take is on pretty basic issues that takes little more than common sense to figure out.
I still like Obama. The mistakes I think he's made are still no comparison to the ones Bush made and I damn sure wouldn't change my vote to McCain for anything. But I don't have any problem punishing the current President for mistakes by voting his ass out of office if the opponent seems headed in the right direction, for my personal likes.
Hookbender — Dec 08, 2010I haven't abandoned reason Trip.
Your repeated returns to these threads for more abuse tend to indicate that you have Hook! ;) ;D
If you were Obama, would you simply let the tax cuts expire then?
And face the next two years with the Republicans in the Senate filibustering every piece of legislation.
I half agree with you, BTW. I think these tax cuts are going to help the economy--giving money to poor and middle class people always does--but I think they're going to hurt the deficit.
However, I don't see there being any choice.
The Repubs spent the last two years holding the threat of filibuster over every piece of legislation and refusing to do anything at all to help anyone. As a reward, they were roundly provided with many new seats in both the house and senate.
Never mind that the elections probably reflected the state of the economy more than any actual belief in Republican issues or values... that's the lesson they took from it. And they translated that into "a mandate". And that mandate is to push their agenda at any and all costs. While you might think the Republican agenda is reducing spending and reducing the deficit, it is actually keeping spending the same, or increasing it, and reducing taxes. i.e., INCREASING THE DEFICIT.
So here we are. You spent the last 6 months arguing that you would vote for Republicans to punish Obama. Now, we have a shitload of Republicans, and they got their wish--big fat tax cuts. And you're unhappy. If you are unhappy with what Republicans push, why the hell did you argue so vehemently in favor of them? And why vote for them?
It's true, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
You can't argue for Republican rule, then bitch about it when it happens. You have to eat your fucking cake. And this is it. Everyone who knows jack and shit could have told you--DID TELL YOU--that Republicans had no plan at all to reduce the deficit. That all they want is more tax cuts. No plan to reduce spending. Their "pledge to America" showed that, in full fucking brilliant color. There is nothing they want to cut except health care. And that's not going to save anything off the deficit... in fact, overturning it will increase the deficit. So, there you go.
People get exactly what they deserve, and what they deserve is the shitstorm we have now. An insane minority running the country. This is what people voted for. And this is what they get.
charger — Dec 08, 2010If you were Obama, would you simply let the tax cuts expire then?
And face the next two years with the Republicans in the Senate filibustering every piece of legislation.
I half agree with you, BTW. I think these tax cuts are going to help the economy--giving money to poor and middle class people always does--but I think they're going to hurt the deficit.
However, I don't see there being any choice.
The Repubs spent the last two years holding the threat of filibuster over every piece of legislation and refusing to do anything at all to help anyone. As a reward, they were roundly provided with many new seats in both the house and senate.
Never mind that the elections probably reflected the state of the economy more than any actual belief in Republican issues or values... that's the lesson they took from it. And they translated that into "a mandate". And that mandate is to push their agenda at any and all costs. While you might think the Republican agenda is reducing spending and reducing the deficit, it is actually keeping spending the same, or increasing it, and reducing taxes. i.e., INCREASING THE DEFICIT.
So here we are. You spent the last 6 months arguing that you would vote for Republicans to punish Obama. Now, we have a shitload of Republicans, and they got their wish--big fat tax cuts. And you're unhappy. If you are unhappy with what Republicans push, why the hell did you argue so vehemently in favor of them? And why vote for them?
It's true, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
You can't argue for Republican rule, then bitch about it when it happens. You have to eat your fucking cake. And this is it. Everyone who knows jack and shit could have told you--DID TELL YOU--that Republicans had no plan at all to reduce the deficit. That all they want is more tax cuts. No plan to reduce spending. Their "pledge to America" showed that, in full fucking brilliant color. There is nothing they want to cut except health care. And that's not going to save anything off the deficit... in fact, overturning it will increase the deficit. So, there you go.
People get exactly what they deserve, and what they deserve is the shitstorm we have now. An insane minority running the country. This is what people voted for. And this is what they get.
If I were Obama, I would extend the tax cuts but not for the rich. And I would hold that line no matter what because it's the right thing to do, period. And, that would be change, because it's the right thing to do.
I would not change my agenda because of what anyone threatened to do. Obama has control of Obama. Thats it.
The republicans agenda is the same as liberals...do what it takes to get elected and then do what you want. The only way to change that is to vote them out of office when they do stupid shit. Nothing else you can do. So, that is my plan. And along with that plan is to ignore the party and concentrate on the individual. The party is a lie, on both sides. You can't do shit about the party. You can vote against the individual though. If I chose to vote against Obama, my only choice will be a republican. I don't give a fuck about a republican or a liberal. They just happen to be the only lagit choice. You have to extend the Bush tax cuts. However, you can extend them the smart, Obama way, minus the rich folk.....not the Bush way. Obama can chose to do the right thing, or, he can say fuck it....the country...and bow to the republicans wishes. I don't want republican anything. I want fairly smart everything. Mainly decisions. No matter who makes them.
Obama spent way to damn much money to decide tax cuts, in addition to the spent money, are necessary. I said earlier, fix simple, work towards hard. The tax cuts are a simple fix, decision, compared to spending billions of dollars on the shit Obama spent it on. They knew this issue was coming up soon and would effect the economy. They fucked up and it's gonna cost us.
CraigBert — Dec 08, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1289778639/100#121 date=1291773778]I haven't abandoned reason Trip.
Your repeated returns to these threads for more abuse tend to indicate that you have Hook! ;) ;D
Pay attention to what I've said, and what's happened. Obama is Bush jr. In a worse way. Abuse. ;D ;D ;D
We've discussed Bush tax cuts, healthcare, government spending, whats your take?
Don' worry Hooky Landrieu, Issa will ride in to deliver retribution....for a small fee uv course...
Hooky Landrieu, how do you get to 60?
Hookbender — Dec 09, 2010[quote author=CraigBert link=1289778639/100#122 date=1291780332][quote author=Hookbender link=1289778639/100#121 date=1291773778]I haven't abandoned reason Trip.
Your repeated returns to these threads for more abuse tend to indicate that you have Hook! ;) ;D
Pay attention to what I've said, and what's happened. Obama is Bush jr. In a worse way. Abuse. ;D ;D ;D
We've discussed Bush tax cuts, healthcare, government spending, whats your take?
No, no, no. I remembered the story of trying to teach a pig to sing: You'll never succeed and it just annoys the pig, so I stay out of these threads now (except to admire how you keep going back again and again for more verbal flagellation. :)
I'm not trying to teach anything. If thats what your implying. If the government can't make good decisions on the basic issues, they will certainly have problems with the complicated ones. And that annoys me.
I just state my opinion. Doesn't mean my vision would work better than anyone elses. Although i think it would. :D
this thread is basically like politics in that you have the majority here, three liberals against a independent. The majority here, the majority politically, republicans, aren't always right.
No he's not saying that.
He is saying that trying to teach the pigs who oink (talk pig nonsense) to sing (not just talk but sing intelligibly)
Just doesn't work.
The pigs are pig ignorant and get angry.
He is supporting you and admiring your tenaciity in teaching pigs.
:-X
Personally, I find it ridiculous that our president has to make "deals" with a minority in any house of the congress, to prevent them from taking the government hostage. I am leaning towards Obama taking a stand, and letting Congress shut down for two years, if that's how long it takes. I don't think it matters what he does or doesn't do, if the economy recovers, and the economy will recover. So, why not just take a stand, and say "fuck you idiots, I don't negotiate with hostage-takers."
He doesn't necessarily have to take any stand, so to speak, just do the right thing and hold to the good decision making he's capable of. He knows what the right thing to do is, he just needs the will to do it. But like I've said before, he'll probably do what will get him re-elected.....cut taxes. Which is saying the hell with America in my opinion. I don't want that kind of President, or American, the leader of this country. I want Obama standing before the people of this country and getting his hands dirty explaining what the fuck heads in Congress etc are doing. But, instead, he'll become a typical bullshitter and liar in Washington and not get shit done. Not change a thing.
You're never going to get a president who promises to raise taxes. Americans will never, ever vote for that. I admire that you have the will to, but that's something Obama, or any other president, won't do until his second term.
You really make a point that also has me pissed. I'm sure I've mentioned this too.
That's not what a President or elected official is suppose to do. Make decisions based on getting re-elected. These fuckers will do anything to get elected or re-elected, and very little to better the country they lead for fear of not getting re-elected. Fuck those people.
I've always been in favor of unlimited terms for a President with voting every 4 years. Maybe what we need is the opposite. 1 four year term per President so he'll have nothing but our country and doing the best job he can in mind the entire 4 years. That would be pretty interesting, imo.
fingers — Nov 26, 2010btw - if Obama leaves the US still financially bust and then Palin takes over.
Will you be blaming it all on Palin a year into her preisdency ?
I betcha won't :P
CraigBert — Nov 26, 2010Of course not, Obama doesn't shoot people who disagree with him! ;) ;D
Wow - prescient :P
But of course only the mental midget could imagine any threat from it
It's just some jolly japes
Not saying it's her fault
as she said here
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2011/01/10/2011-01-10_sarah_palin_speaks_out_on_gabrielle_giffords_shooting_i_hate_violence_she_emails.html?r=news/politics
In an email to conservative talk show host Glenn Beck, she reportedly said "I hate violence. I hate war. Our children will not have peace if politicos just capitalize on this to succeed in portraying anyone as inciting terror and violence."
She has spoken out on exactly this kind of dispicable behaviour in the past
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezkJ3zUJ_RI&feature=related
Hang about there seems to be some agreement that politicos and commentators cause bad influences and things to happen from the extreme right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGFGrzWedyA
they mention a Sister Souljah moment - which triggered a thought for a thread.