The Watering Hole

Did you miss the news where Tesla took over the old Nummi plant out here in Fremont after GM and Toyota abandoned it?  And they are delivering their first consumer car, the Model S?

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-factory-birthplace-model-s

charger — Mar 10, 2011Did you miss the news where Tesla took over the old Nummi plant out here in Fremont after GM and Toyota abandoned it?  And they are delivering their first consumer car, the Model S?

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-factory-birthplace-model-s

My business partner was involved with Tesla in the beginning.  He said their biggest issues were with the batteries.  Unlike some newer approaches which use flat, floor mat-looking, battery cells that are stackable, Tesla's battery pack was like having thousands of AA batteries all put together - and with the same problems like when one leaks or corrodes.  Maybe they've gotten past that?

Batteries are the key technology.

I think battery swapping at "filling" stations is the most realistic solution to the charging issue,  and governments do have a role in getting that infrastructure  going,


Lots of benefits.

1  Flipping a battery would take no more time than filling up a tank,
2  The industry can charge replaced batteries at optimal time of cheapest electricity, likely the middle of the night balancing out the expensive peaky demand curve for exlectricity generation.
3. Charging would be at the optimal rate for battery life and minimizing waste heat when charging i.e. slowly in  hours rather than minutes.
4  Battery technology would not be competing on it's flash charging ability as it is unnecessary, a charge if flat to get to the local replacement station would be all that would be needed - which would still only take minutes. This would remove a major constraint on battery development which can be more focussed on other areas such as battery life and energy density.
5. Filling stations already exist and could retool for this task, making it politically easier to push through - people still have jobs.

Downside - needs standardisation of battery installation - with technology  that is in rapid development and will date very quickly,  at this point in time it is hard to see it working with  20 different kinds of battery now and 40 different ones in the next 5 years, so when it settles down.

Yeah, Tesla is essentially using a ton of little batteries.  I've talked to people who think there are advantages and disadvantages to the tech.  On the plus side, it's easy to replace a couple of bad batteries.  It's also supposedly much better for getting even charge into and out of the system.  On the minus side, it's a ton of little tiny batteries...  the leakage thing is not really an issue with LiPo batteries, is it?  

Also on the plus side, they've got a production car under 60k coming that can go 160 miles, and you can expand it up to 300 miles.  The Chevy Volt goes 35 miles on electric, and Nissan Leaf 70-130.  So they are doing something right.

Lots of tech info in here...
http://www.teslamotors.com/roadster/technology/battery

I've posted this before but check this out if you haven't seen it!!!! 0-60, 3.7 seconds. 250 miles per charge. No emissions. Little pricey. But with plants like the one Charger mentioned or better, I'm sure they can get the price down some. I think this is the future company that will eventually get such a good car that attention will be unavoidable. Might be on the right tract with the sedan.

http://www.teslamotors.com/roadster

I keep waiting for someone to point out the obvious...  Where is all the electricity supposed to come from to operate these cars?  It's like the carpool lane.  If everyone used it, it wouldn't work!

There's still a lot to be worked out before electric cars are viable.  Battery disposal is supposedly horrendous.

It reminds me of those air hand dryers you see in restrooms, "Save a piece of paper from becoming a towel!"  Yeah, by burning the equivalent of 1000 towels to create the electricity.  Just admit that you put the damn thing in there so you wouldn't have to pick up trash.

All of that said, some of the things we're working on are strategies to create more electricity cleanly and, even more importantly, finding ways to store it.

The tesla car is another choice for consumers. Gas powered vehicles will probably never go completely. I doubt you'll ever see a electric big rig going down the interstate with thousands of pounds of shit in the trailer. But if we have X number of people driving them, along with wind power, nuclear, etc. then you make a big dent in our need for oil. Over time, these ideas will get better. Other discoveries will come. If all the big users of oil reduced their use by 25%, it could make a huge difference in oil prices. But the goal should never be anything less than no need for it.

I agree with you that batteries are the problem. The disposal of them. The technology is here for the beginning of electric cars. We just have to perfect the disposal of batteries and the ability to make them better in all ways.  

CraigBert — Mar 11, 2011I keep waiting for someone to point out the obvious...  Where is all the electricity supposed to come from to operate these cars?

Of course - and not through a local grid system so you charge at home.

I did mention an angle on it -

My first serious job out of Uni was building a fortran program  modelling the dynamics of matching plant generation against the demand curve for the UK grid,
As a tool to make engineering policy to  minimise the cost of it.
I am a mech eng who ended up programming.

The really expensive component is the peakiness of the demand curve,

If the demand curve was flat 24hr round - generating would be a lot more economical to produce in many ways - as I am sure you are aware,
peaks are attained by running expensive gas turbines.
troughs are expensive as well, running power stations less that 100% or even turning on and off in short wasteful cycles.

Batteries are storage devices,  so take them to the power generation and use them flatten the electrical demand curve.

It isn't the final picture - but it is an economically viable picture for the early uptake at least.

Yeah, our largest potential lies in Alaska where our systems will be able to replace a lot of diesel generation (which is hugely expensive up there - electricity runs around 50 cents per kW/h - between 6 and 12 cents down here in the lower 48).  We can run with a utility grid, in parallel with a diesel genset or with nothing else.