#1 · Jul 29, 2008 21:56 UTC
I don't. I'll provide more info as people post.
#2 · Jul 29, 2008 22:13 UTC
Where is your evidence? We don't care about your opinion. Play by your own rules asshole.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Now, I gotta go look that big word up before I answer your question.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Now, I gotta go look that big word up before I answer your question.
#3 · Jul 30, 2008 00:19 UTC
Fuck you! ;D
Opinions are fine.....as long as you back up with support.....I have told you that I intend to back up with support I'd just like to get a feel for what the COMMON thought is.
You know a person COULD say, "I believe in X because of Y" X wouldn't necessarily be true....but they back it up wtih Y and thus we have something to talk about.
Opinions are fine.....as long as you back up with support.....I have told you that I intend to back up with support I'd just like to get a feel for what the COMMON thought is.
You know a person COULD say, "I believe in X because of Y" X wouldn't necessarily be true....but they back it up wtih Y and thus we have something to talk about.
#4 · Jul 30, 2008 00:40 UTC
I'm sure he's right up there with the Flying Spaghetti Monster (may you be touched by his noodly appendage). ;)
#5 · Jul 30, 2008 17:40 UTC
Quote
========================
Do you think God is Omnipotent?
========================
I think some Viagra will probably sort that out
========================
Do you think God is Omnipotent?
========================
I think some Viagra will probably sort that out
#6 · Jul 30, 2008 18:49 UTC
Goodness if I posted my opinion on that everyone would come down on me, both the religious and the non religious. Lets just say if there is a creator, it's IQ would have to be in the Trillions vs our several hundred at best. If it is aware of everyone in it's creation then it has to be something so huge and out of our understanding range as to be incomprehensible to us puny humans. Of course most people believe that they can pray to "IT", that IT will stop all of this creative activities just to fix their little problem. Pretty silly if you ask me.
Read The Active Side Of Infinity by Carlos Castaneda, that is basically what I believe to a degree. But to put it in a nutshell it is a Dark Field of Energy that puts out the criteria for the existence of all it's beings, and then collects the results of our existence at our deaths. Like winding up a doll and letting it go off to "experience" and collects those experiences when we are done existing. In the case of non organic beings (reputed spirit beings that exist in and around us) it is just the same for all of them only they are much longer existing than us organics. There is no eternity only a much longer time line than our puny lives.
OK boyz let 'er rip.
One more thing, I am under the impression that God is a huge computer, and in it's imagination all of this exists, and it has the wherewithall to convince us puny minded humans that everything is real.
I actually believe that. (all of this may be because I was once a hippy that did huge amounts of psychedelic substances)
Read The Active Side Of Infinity by Carlos Castaneda, that is basically what I believe to a degree. But to put it in a nutshell it is a Dark Field of Energy that puts out the criteria for the existence of all it's beings, and then collects the results of our existence at our deaths. Like winding up a doll and letting it go off to "experience" and collects those experiences when we are done existing. In the case of non organic beings (reputed spirit beings that exist in and around us) it is just the same for all of them only they are much longer existing than us organics. There is no eternity only a much longer time line than our puny lives.
OK boyz let 'er rip.
One more thing, I am under the impression that God is a huge computer, and in it's imagination all of this exists, and it has the wherewithall to convince us puny minded humans that everything is real.
I actually believe that. (all of this may be because I was once a hippy that did huge amounts of psychedelic substances)
#7 · Jul 30, 2008 19:30 UTC
I'm sure everyone thinks their interpretations are "deeper" than mine. You've all read a few times how I feel we're all taking part in basically an incredible first-person roll-playing game (like a video game). This is done for people to try various rolls and learn from them. I'm very comfortable with my current beliefs because they answer virtually every question that both atheists and so-called "believers" struggle with. The main advantage I have in this is that I've been both a believer and then an atheist before realizing that both positions were incorrect. Like with everything else in life, people try to paint things as black or white when, in reality, it's actually some shade of gray.
So, to go back to the actual question posed at the start of this topic, you first need to ask several others first.
1) How are you defining "God?"
Is this a person? Some "entity" that might be composed of multiple smaller parts (as everything else in our universe is)?
2) How are you defining "Omnipotent?"
If this reality is as I expect it, then the entities behind the setup and maintenance of it (which, of course, could be partially or wholly each of our "higher selves" - wholly meaning that my reality is completely separate from yours and that you're only playing a supporting role in my reality while I may or may not be in "your" true reality at all).
If someone or some thing has the ability to completely anihilate you and/or your reality, does that mean that they are omnipotent?
Without context the following are equivalent:
God is omnipotent.
God is powerless.
God doesn't exist so the question is moot.
So, to go back to the actual question posed at the start of this topic, you first need to ask several others first.
1) How are you defining "God?"
Is this a person? Some "entity" that might be composed of multiple smaller parts (as everything else in our universe is)?
2) How are you defining "Omnipotent?"
If this reality is as I expect it, then the entities behind the setup and maintenance of it (which, of course, could be partially or wholly each of our "higher selves" - wholly meaning that my reality is completely separate from yours and that you're only playing a supporting role in my reality while I may or may not be in "your" true reality at all).
If someone or some thing has the ability to completely anihilate you and/or your reality, does that mean that they are omnipotent?
Without context the following are equivalent:
God is omnipotent.
God is powerless.
God doesn't exist so the question is moot.
#8 · Jul 30, 2008 19:59 UTC
CraigBert — Jul 30, 2008
If someone or some thing has the ability to completely anihilate you and/or your reality, does that mean that they are omnipotent?
Very interesting post. This line here....man am I going to touch on that when I do my post on this. I think you will be able to appreciate a lot of what I am going to post.
#9 · Jul 30, 2008 22:37 UTC
I can't say yes or no. I don't personally believe in "God" as construed in Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition. But that God is supposedly omnipotent. AND omniscient. I do not believe that is possible or likely. Shit is way too fucked up for that typeof creator to be running the show... if he/she is, I'm not sure that's the type of creator I would respect.
However, I do tend to think that there was a something that started the big bang. As the big bang contained all the matter and energy in the universe for a brief instant, I do believe that "creator" or "force" was omnipotent--controlling everything in the Universe--at least, for the collection of microseconds between nothing and something. But there are so many ifs in what I think that it's impossible to even begin to qualitatively state anything.
However, I do tend to think that there was a something that started the big bang. As the big bang contained all the matter and energy in the universe for a brief instant, I do believe that "creator" or "force" was omnipotent--controlling everything in the Universe--at least, for the collection of microseconds between nothing and something. But there are so many ifs in what I think that it's impossible to even begin to qualitatively state anything.
#10 · Aug 03, 2008 11:09 UTC
charger — Jul 30, 2008IHowever, I do tend to think that there was a something that started the big bang. As the big bang contained all the matter and energy in the universe for a brief instant, I do believe that "creator" or "force" was omnipotent--controlling everything in the Universe--at least, for the collection of microseconds between nothing and something..
Hehe... that event could be the result of an error from the "creator/force"..
i.e. " Shit, It has exploded !!!! I fucked up in the melting, I guess"...
So, "he"("she ??? ) would be omnidumbass rather than omnipotent ???
#11 · Aug 03, 2008 21:28 UTC
The event that occurred right before the big bang...
A Devine reboot using <Ctrl><Alt><Delete> ;D
A Devine reboot using <Ctrl><Alt><Delete> ;D
#12 · Aug 03, 2008 23:36 UTC
Aright.....here' my answer.
Been studying a lot of things as of late and I have discovered the Hellenization of Christianity has led to a significant fuck up on how MODERN day Christians view God as opposed to Ancient Jews. I find this parallel rather fascinating.
1. El Shaddai (go ahead and sing along with Amy Grant on this one) is Hebrew for "God that is Sufficient". Sufficient. Good enough. NOT perfect.....NOT omnipotent. So how did we get to omnipotent?
2. When the Hebrew got translated into Greek they took the ROOT word of Shaddai which is shaddad. This root word is DIFFERENT a bit. It means to overpower, destroy, ALMIGHTY. The word in Greek is Pantokrator. Here is the first significant change. The notion that GOd is ALMIGHTY means that he is merely more powerful than us. IT still doesn't make him perfect, omniscient, or omnipotent...So how did we get to omnipotent?
3. Wel for those of you that took any Latin....you've probably followed the bouncing ball. Pantokrator to latin became omnipotent. Now instead of discussing the nature of God we think in terms of what God can do. There is a big difference in those lines of thoughts. One just has God as a powerful being, we know that he IS powerful because of creation but the limit of his power is SOMEWHAT unknown. We know he can do miraculous things and at the same time he can be somewhat of a huge dick....and dumbass....more on this later. OF course the other line of thought is that God can do anything and is perfect. Let me use a Christian Bible to PROVE that he can't be.
Genesis 3:9 right after the fall of man we find God saying, "Where are you?" He this omnipotent guy can't find the ONLY two people on the fucking planet? really? They are literally HIDING from the omnipotent one? How is THAT even possible?
Genesis 6-8
God has created the planet. He's not happy. HE gets a mulligan? Destroy and redo? Because he thinks this will FIX the problems. Yet.....nothing changes. Wouldn't an omnipotent God know that there was no need to destroy the Earth as the same shit was going to happen anyway?
He also GRIEVES at what man has done. Why would he do that? He knew it was going to happen all along right?
Genesis 18 The story of Sodom and Gomorrah
Here we find God pissed at man again. So pissed he will destroy two cities. HE is so angry he's going to kill EVERYBODY in the cities. YET Abraham tells God that he is wrong to kill the good people along with the bad people. True to Jewish tradition...Abraham literally Jews God down to the number of righteous men that must be found in the city for them to be saved and not killed by God. Abraham starts at 50 and literally Jews god down to 10 by increments of 5. Wouldn't an omnipotent God KNOW the righteous in the cities and just tell Abraham to get them, instead of arguing about who many to get?
Genesis 22 Abraham is tested by God.
I think this one is a killer. God....whom Christians say is omnipotent...has to test the faith of Abraham by telling Abraham to KILL his son in a sacrifice to God himself. WHY the fuck would an omnipotent God need to TEST anybody? Wouldn't he already know? IF God were actually omnipotent he'd be a real dick. The story of Job goes exactly with this line of thinking......utterly unnecessary.
Now I'm going to take a second and deal with part of Exodus. we are only 2 books into the Bible.
Exodus 4 God picks Moses
Here we have God giving Moses 3 miraculous feats to perform. Why three?
Exodus 4:8 "Then the Lord said, 'IF they do not believe you are pay attention to the first miraculous sign, they MAY believe the second."
WTF? IF and MAY plus we need MAYBE a third trick? This doesn't sound like omnipotence. This sounds like pissing in the dark.
Exodus 7-11 The 10 plagues
When moses goes to Pharaoh to free his people.....God sends one plague at a time hoping to show Pharaoh he is wrong. WTF? Wouldn't an omnipotent God.....just pick the ONE thing that going to do the job instead of fucking around with 10 separate plagues? and to top it the fuck off this OMNIPOTENT God, as the Christians claim, isn't even that fucking creative. OF those 10 plagues....he sends tiny fucking animals 3 times. Flies, locusts, and FROGS?!?!?! Frogs?!?!? Are you fucking kidding me?
Look guys ......I've not even covered EVERYTHING in these first two books of the Bible. But the picture I am getting is that God is in no possible way omnipotent.
I challenge Theists to get their heads around what I have said......refute.
Been studying a lot of things as of late and I have discovered the Hellenization of Christianity has led to a significant fuck up on how MODERN day Christians view God as opposed to Ancient Jews. I find this parallel rather fascinating.
1. El Shaddai (go ahead and sing along with Amy Grant on this one) is Hebrew for "God that is Sufficient". Sufficient. Good enough. NOT perfect.....NOT omnipotent. So how did we get to omnipotent?
2. When the Hebrew got translated into Greek they took the ROOT word of Shaddai which is shaddad. This root word is DIFFERENT a bit. It means to overpower, destroy, ALMIGHTY. The word in Greek is Pantokrator. Here is the first significant change. The notion that GOd is ALMIGHTY means that he is merely more powerful than us. IT still doesn't make him perfect, omniscient, or omnipotent...So how did we get to omnipotent?
3. Wel for those of you that took any Latin....you've probably followed the bouncing ball. Pantokrator to latin became omnipotent. Now instead of discussing the nature of God we think in terms of what God can do. There is a big difference in those lines of thoughts. One just has God as a powerful being, we know that he IS powerful because of creation but the limit of his power is SOMEWHAT unknown. We know he can do miraculous things and at the same time he can be somewhat of a huge dick....and dumbass....more on this later. OF course the other line of thought is that God can do anything and is perfect. Let me use a Christian Bible to PROVE that he can't be.
Genesis 3:9 right after the fall of man we find God saying, "Where are you?" He this omnipotent guy can't find the ONLY two people on the fucking planet? really? They are literally HIDING from the omnipotent one? How is THAT even possible?
Genesis 6-8
God has created the planet. He's not happy. HE gets a mulligan? Destroy and redo? Because he thinks this will FIX the problems. Yet.....nothing changes. Wouldn't an omnipotent God know that there was no need to destroy the Earth as the same shit was going to happen anyway?
He also GRIEVES at what man has done. Why would he do that? He knew it was going to happen all along right?
Genesis 18 The story of Sodom and Gomorrah
Here we find God pissed at man again. So pissed he will destroy two cities. HE is so angry he's going to kill EVERYBODY in the cities. YET Abraham tells God that he is wrong to kill the good people along with the bad people. True to Jewish tradition...Abraham literally Jews God down to the number of righteous men that must be found in the city for them to be saved and not killed by God. Abraham starts at 50 and literally Jews god down to 10 by increments of 5. Wouldn't an omnipotent God KNOW the righteous in the cities and just tell Abraham to get them, instead of arguing about who many to get?
Genesis 22 Abraham is tested by God.
I think this one is a killer. God....whom Christians say is omnipotent...has to test the faith of Abraham by telling Abraham to KILL his son in a sacrifice to God himself. WHY the fuck would an omnipotent God need to TEST anybody? Wouldn't he already know? IF God were actually omnipotent he'd be a real dick. The story of Job goes exactly with this line of thinking......utterly unnecessary.
Now I'm going to take a second and deal with part of Exodus. we are only 2 books into the Bible.
Exodus 4 God picks Moses
Here we have God giving Moses 3 miraculous feats to perform. Why three?
Exodus 4:8 "Then the Lord said, 'IF they do not believe you are pay attention to the first miraculous sign, they MAY believe the second."
WTF? IF and MAY plus we need MAYBE a third trick? This doesn't sound like omnipotence. This sounds like pissing in the dark.
Exodus 7-11 The 10 plagues
When moses goes to Pharaoh to free his people.....God sends one plague at a time hoping to show Pharaoh he is wrong. WTF? Wouldn't an omnipotent God.....just pick the ONE thing that going to do the job instead of fucking around with 10 separate plagues? and to top it the fuck off this OMNIPOTENT God, as the Christians claim, isn't even that fucking creative. OF those 10 plagues....he sends tiny fucking animals 3 times. Flies, locusts, and FROGS?!?!?! Frogs?!?!? Are you fucking kidding me?
Look guys ......I've not even covered EVERYTHING in these first two books of the Bible. But the picture I am getting is that God is in no possible way omnipotent.
I challenge Theists to get their heads around what I have said......refute.
#13 · Aug 04, 2008 17:43 UTC
desertbluesman — Jul 30, 2008Goodness if I posted my opinion on that everyone would come down on me, both the religious and the non religious. Lets just say if there is a creator, it's IQ would have to be in the Trillions vs our several hundred at best. If it is aware of everyone in it's creation then it has to be something so huge and out of our understanding range as to be incomprehensible to us puny humans. Of course most people believe that they can pray to "IT", that IT will stop all of this creative activities just to fix their little problem. Pretty silly if you ask me.
You're not the only one...
Read The Active Side Of Infinity by Carlos Castaneda, that is basically what I believe to a degree.
Wow. You really think a peyote-taking liar of a fiction writer who dabbled in being a cult leader really had a good take on the universe? Kind of scary...
But to put it in a nutshell it is a Dark Field of Energy that puts out the criteria for the existence of all it's beings, and then collects the results of our existence at our deaths. Like winding up a doll and letting it go off to "experience" and collects those experiences when we are done existing.
Wow. That is some serious woo-woo.
In the case of non organic beings (reputed spirit beings that exist in and around us) it is just the same for all of them only they are much longer existing than us organics. There is no eternity only a much longer time line than our puny lives.
No one's ever provided tangible evidence of a non-organic being (like a ghost or "spirit being"). There are plenty of non-organic objects, but they aren't beings. You've been living in Arizona too long - there's a lot of new-age horseshit going on there - weird amalgamations of native american superstition and eastern philosophical hogwash. All of it as absurd as Christianity, but with a hippie hippie shake.
OK boyz let 'er rip.
One more thing, I am under the impression that God is a huge computer, and in it's imagination all of this exists, and it has the wherewithall to convince us puny minded humans that everything is real.
So which is it? Dark matter or computer?
This is why this question is so pointless. It leads to moronic contradictions that make otherwise smart people (like DBM) look foolish.
God most likely ISN'T. If God WAS than we could have this discussion, but as of now, it's as much worth talking about the Easter Bunny and what color his belly fur is and whether he likes his job or not.
God as defined by most modern forms of Christianity is omnipotent, which is why we're encouraged to always behave ourselves, even when no one is looking, because God always knows.
Personally, I like the concept put forth in the Albert Brooks movie "Defending Your Life" - if there is an afterlife, you are judged on how purely you lived your life - how you overcame your neuroses to live it to the fullest, and if you did do a good job, you get to go on to the next "plane of existence". It's a comforting fiction (and a funny movie, IMO). Do I think it is how it goes? Nope.
Going further off on the tangent, my greatest hope for an afterlife would be something of the order of a giant family reunion, where you get to spend time with those you loved and lost, and get to know those who you didn't get a chance to know (like, say, a grandfather who died when you were young or before you were born).
But in both cases, I live my life like there's nothing afterwards. I love my family and friends. I let them know it. (bring out the homo tag, Strategery) I take great care to be a good person, and to give people the respect they deserve, and treat them fairly. I enjoy each day as it comes, thankful that I get to have another one alive with my kids and my wife.
It's pretty simple to attain, happiness. It's just amazing how few people can get past their own ego and preconceived notions to experience it.
Perception is reality. If you see a day as a good one, no matter what happens, it can be a good one. Stressors get to you when you let them get to you. I know people who have issues at turning off the "oh, well, today's going to suck" thought, and I can understand it, having experienced clinical depression (brought on by my course of Accutane that caused the altered chemistry in my head), but it is something that a simple modification in the way you see the world can fix.
I think the reason religious faith works for many people is that the worry of things being bad or good is reduced and softened by the acceptance that it's part of God's plan. Those of us who think more deeply about it and question aren't often able to just accept that sort of simple explanation for everything, so we have a tougher time controlling how those issues affect us. What works for me is the statistics. Things are going to be bad, and good, at different times. Just realizing that sometimes things are shitty, and dealing with them, and enjoying the times when things are good, and savoring them, has made a fundamental change in my life more than any moment when I was religious.
Sorry for the off-topic chatter, but I had that on my mind.
Tripper
#14 · Aug 05, 2008 01:04 UTC
"God is a kid with an ant farm" - John Constantine in the movie Constantine
#15 · Aug 06, 2008 01:25 UTC
Tripper — Aug 04, 2008
Wow. You really think a peyote-taking liar of a fiction writer who dabbled in being a cult leader really had a good take on the universe? Kind of scary...
Tripper
Well since I was an acid dropping Hippy that ventured into similar realms, yeah I do believe that Carlos might have run into such folks and learned from them even though he may have made much of it up and not experienced it himself. I do live in the Sonoran Desert, which is where the Anthropology studies he made were done so all of it seems familiar. But I don't know for sure, I just like the sound of what he said because I viewed similar things back in the hippy daze. Otherwise, I don't believe much of anything. And yet any of it may be possible.
#16 · Aug 06, 2008 01:26 UTC
CraigBert — Aug 05, 2008"God is a kid with an ant farm" - John Constantine in the movie Constantine
#17 · Aug 06, 2008 16:06 UTC
desertbluesman — Aug 06, 2008[quote author=Tripper link=1217368580/0#12 date=1217871814]
Wow. You really think a peyote-taking liar of a fiction writer who dabbled in being a cult leader really had a good take on the universe? Kind of scary...
Tripper
Well since I was an acid dropping Hippy that ventured into similar realms, yeah I do believe that Carlos might have run into such folks and learned from them even though he may have made much of it up and not experienced it himself. I do live in the Sonoran Desert, which is where the Anthropology studies he made were done so all of it seems familiar. But I don't know for sure, I just like the sound of what he said because I viewed similar things back in the hippy daze. Otherwise, I don't believe much of anything. And yet any of it may be possible.
So true...
Tripper