24 posts
OT vs NT
How the hell can they cohabit the same religion.
The OT is mostly extreme violent pornography - anyone getting OT on someones ass these days would be in a straightjacket or on deathrow.
and NT - it has diagrametically the opposite ideology of the OT - a social worker/charity person.
But both together as a book - it just doesn't make any sense for any religion.
The OT is downright satanic.
http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
fingers — Mar 14, 2011OT vs NT
How the hell can they cohabit the same religion.
The OT is mostly extreme violent pornography - anyone getting OT on someones ass these days would be in a straightjacket or on deathrow.
and NT - it has diagrametically the opposite ideology of the OT - a social worker/charity person.
But both together as a book - it just doesn't make any sense for any religion.
The OT is downright satanic.
http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
Diagrametically? :D
(BTW - They should probably be called the OT and the ROT, or "Really Old Testament" now. ;) )
OK - I meant diametrically :)
I just see the whole thing as shit. The more I observe the middle east, the "terrorist", Isreal, America, etc., the more just fucking stupid and childish the damn thing seems....(religion).
Understood - but put that aside,
It is not a question of belief in the sense of Atheist vs Deist.
It is about consistency over time.
Does it make any sense to have the OT and NT in the same book ?
Can it be claimed that the God is consistent and unchanging ?
If historical norms are used as an argument for the difference that is simply saying that some geezers wrote it - not the God.
In which case which parts did He write and which parts were the he.
Just curious as someone like FB who was inside might give an idea of how it was processed by the drones. ;)
Here's my thought on this. The NT developed in response to the OT laws. I think the "Rules and Regulations" that the Jews were forming was getting away from the 10 things that God (according to the jews) originally asked. BTW on a side note the Ten commandments happen 3 separate times in the OT and EACH time they are different. Vastly different.
I think people saw the issues with "god" and wanted something different. This is nothing new it happens in other religions as well. You take bits and pieces of a religion you like and and with other things you like and you create a whole new mythology. Happens all the time and Christianity is a great example of how these things change. Like today there were many different Christian churches in the beginnings of Christianity that all believed very different things about Jesus. Diametrically different things if one wants to spend time on the subject. Eventually through might the Roman Catholic version won out and became the gold standard of Christianity until those damned protestants came along and said the catholics were full of shit too.
I'm always curious at the modern version of Christianity. They consistently throw the OT under the bus and say that it doesn't apply to them it's for the jews. Yet if you want to talk about homo's....well they quote exclusively from the OT which is meant for the Jews. I think there is a thing in Romans that is NT but it's very vague I think.
You are right though fingers.....the OT is nothing like the NT and the version of GOD in each is so insanely different it's not funny. One of the key aspects though is that God in the NT is still GOD....Christians put Jesus on even footing with God. Even Jesus states that God is whom he serves, elevating God above himself. SOOOOOO what someone might glean from that is that the God of the NT is the same god of the OT he just has a new spokes man and doesn't feel the need to go on killing sprees!!! HAHAHAHA
God constantly punishes the Jews in the OT. Severely and beyond what is necessary. Jesus speaks of love and compassion, though he does get a bit pissy with the money changers.
My question to Christians is how do you reconcile these two unlike things? IT was the question that eventually led to me becoming an atheist among other things. No one can. At best they will claim faith and ignorance and say things like "Who are we to question what God does?" Then they stick their head in the sand and are fine living in ignorance.
Interesting.
It has just occurred to me.
OT seems to about Nature as a thunder god like Thor.
NT seems to be about philosophy - human focused - Nature has a very small part in the telling aside from the apocalyptic previews.
The NT could have been grafted onto the books of any religion in the ancient world at the time.
Maybe that is the reason - there was no continuous line, just a bolt on when times and ideas had moved on.
you know Fender, I went to church every Sunday from a very early age, till Around my freshman year in highschool. I still went, just not every Sunday. Until my change to pretty much Atheist. Not one time can I ever come close to remembering that even mentioned.
I couldn't ever get a straight answer either. I was always taught that they were two--Father and Son. Usually the subject would get changed immediately. Jesus was son of course. I guess God fucked Mary, found out she was pregnant and carried his MFin ass. :o.... ;D Another great example of a higher being. ;D
Noel, I'm impressed that you spend the time to read enough of it to wager these questions.
Actually you only need to have seen a few old Hollywood biblic epics on OT and NT to wager these questions.
And question the "continuity" problems of the main character - i.e. GOD.
ok, just thought maybe you had taken enough of an interest to read some of it. I know there are several here who don't believe but say they've read the whole Bible.
I've read some of it before - can't say I have read it all
They were written by and for different people living in very different times under different circumstances with different goals and compiled and edited by very different people with multiple aims?
Hmm... I think Bingewood is trying to say it's not the same... ;)
DreamTheaterRules — Mar 28, 2011ok, just thought maybe you had taken enough of an interest to read some of it. I know there are several here who don't believe but say they've read the whole Bible.
Well, actually, you don't have to read the bible, you could just attend chuch on any Sunday and come to the same conclusion.
DreamTheaterRules — Mar 28, 2011ok, just thought maybe you had taken enough of an interest to read some of it. I know there are several here who don't believe but say they've read the whole Bible.
Just for clarification, are you doubting those of us that have read the bible and still do not believe? Are you saying that we DIDN'T read the bible and that is why we don't believe? What are you saying here?
As for me I've read the bible quite a bit. I still read the bible. I can't count the times I've read the bible. I've read it all the way through. I generally don't sit and read it straight through. There are ways I've learned to read the bible, ways developed by scholars so as to be able to read it with better clarity rather than going straight through it and missing the points and how they line up. I read the bible vertically rather than horizontally. In other words I take similar books and read them together. This allows me to see what each person is saying at the same time rather than mixing what each says as if they are saying the same thing.
An example of this would be taking the Easter story and reading it vertically. Each writer tells HUGELY different stories. Most Christians take what each person says and mixes it all up, creating a NEW mythology rather than one coherent story.
I would say that people who actually read the Bible are more prone not to believe. I don't know what the number is, but I bet a vast majority of so called Christians haven't read the Bible. They just sit like puppets in their seat waiting for their string to be pulled by the puppet master.....the preacher. How one could say love and god in the same sentence is beyond me. There are some good things in their, but they aren't anything special. Love thy neighbor, don't kill, (but god can), etc. Wow, I'm in ah to have read a book written by such intelligent men. It's a little intimidating.
And DTR...are you saying that we non-believers, or people with different thoughts than you, are liars? That's a strange thought process you have if thats anywhere close to the truth. And if you've read the Bible, what about all the horrible stuff in their? Do you believe that happened, or is true, like you do the bad stuff?
I've always wondered WHY people believe. I understand the desire to feel there is something more out there, that there are "higher" beings, to live beyond our flesh and bone bodies, and that there are reasons for things we can't explain, however even my beliefs cover all of those. Why do people feel they have to have a religion tell them what to think?
For that matter, when I see people of two different religions arguing that the other person's belief is wrong I can't help laughing at the irony.
Some people believe in the "Holy Spirit" but not in ghosts. Some people laugh at zombie movies but believe Jesus could raise people from the dead. Some people think Greek mythology is primitive yet think the entire Earth was somehow flooded with water. Others can't believe the Egyptians spent their whole lives building pyramids and mummifying the dead yet they spend their whole lifes praying to someone who, really, doesn't answer. Others don't believe in "magic" but think miracles are real.
Then you have the types who pray for their favorite sports team to win - really??? Or say that every life is sacred and kill the doctor at a abortion clinic - really??? We can track recorded history back before the pyramids yet some think the Earth is only three to six thousand years old - really???
I think all religions are simply convenient ways to defer responsibility for the masses and excellent means to provide power and control for those in charge. They provide easy answers to questions that don't have any answer - yet - and they provide hope that this life isn't all there is.
CraigBert — Apr 12, 2011For that matter, when I see people of two different religions arguing that the other person's belief is wrong I can't help laughing at the irony.
They would of course argue that you are wrong as well ;)
CraigBert — Apr 12, 2011I've always wondered WHY people believe. I understand the desire to feel there is something more out there, that there are "higher" beings, to live beyond our flesh and bone bodies, and that there are reasons for things we can't explain, however even my beliefs cover all of those. Why do people feel they have to have a religion tell them what to think?
For that matter, when I see people of two different religions arguing that the other person's belief is wrong I can't help laughing at the irony.
Some people believe in the "Holy Spirit" but not in ghosts. Some people laugh at zombie movies but believe Jesus could raise people from the dead. Some people think Greek mythology is primitive yet think the entire Earth was somehow flooded with water. Others can't believe the Egyptians spent their whole lives building pyramids and mummifying the dead yet they spend their whole lifes praying to someone who, really, doesn't answer. Others don't believe in "magic" but think miracles are real.
Then you have the types who pray for their favorite sports team to win - really??? Or say that every life is sacred and kill the doctor at a abortion clinic - really??? We can track recorded history back before the pyramids yet some think the Earth is only three to six thousand years old - really???
I think all religions are simply convenient ways to defer responsibility for the masses and excellent means to provide power and control for those in charge. They provide easy answers to questions that don't have any answer - yet - and they provide hope that this life isn't all there is.
First, religion isn't telling them what to think, religion is telling them what to believe. You ever heard the word "think" in a church?
Religion is an escape, it's comfortable, you don't have to think, it's stupid, it kills.....it's kinda like drinking and driving.
I think Hooky's rationalizing again... ;)