The Watering Hole

Gear
25 posts
Welp, my name is derek and I'm an alchy, glad to be here, lol.  :P

I tried the Bogner Alchemist 'head' at GC and really liked it, suits my style well and fills the two areas I need most (lead and cleans). I first tried one of the combos and wasn't initally 'wowed', but that might be unfair to say, didn't spend much time on it, had my eyes on the head all along and wanted to get to it, and boy was I happy then, fired it up through a 4x12 cab (loudly even, place was dead) and that was a different animal all together!

I can see why some don't fall in love these right away though, really can, the knobs work together in such a way, well, just seems unique/different (IMO) vs more common amps I've owned (to me at least), not to mention it sounds SO good/better cranked, and how many in the store play stuff beyond low, safe volumes.

There seems to be a small learning curve - its not like say the Marshall or Peavey, where you can slap the low/med/high/prez knobs at noon, turn the pre gain up and its already a great, meaty rhythm tone, just tweak to taste from there, etc, and then, without changing channels, you can simply crank the gain more, kick a boost pedal on and its suddenly a nice lead tone - this Bogner does not work that way...I first went right to the high gain channel and started trying to chug out rhythm stuff and it sounded poor, muddy, not much low end, not much sizzle/sparkle - well, duh, its the LEAD channel, and they MEAN IT, lol, its a more balanced voicing, nice and round, already tailored purfectly for leads, single notes are chewy and have character (most importantly, no fizziness, no buzz, very smooth sounding gain), bottom line, the beefy rhythm sound aint gonna happen on that channel, at least not good/proper, you'd have to turn off the "punch" button, experiment with the "mid shift" switch, etc, but of course, the true crunch channel (the clean channel with the crunch switch engaged) works great for that, suddenly the low and hi end are there, thick and fresh! The cleans are also great IMO.



BTW, the main knock I'm seeing often is that people dig the amp, but that its not worth that much bacon, that may be so for some, dunno, for me it is, I got it for $897 out the door! It was NOT a green tag/sale item (though oddly, all the Alchy combo's and cabs were), but it was the only one they just got in and on display, so it was priced much better ($1087, tis otherwise $1247 - now THAT is too high for this amp), considered an 'open box' item, then the guy was super cool and allowed me to apply the $50 off coupon that was "supposed" to only be used on GREEN TAG items of $350 value and up, then the $190 cred for the HT pedal return and bang, suddenly the head was <$900 total!  ;)
Cool I always thought it was a good amp. Just not for my taste at lower volumes. I was impressed with it at louder & up to band levels big time, it does it great tones there. I tried the head at CG the other day. They were still selling it at the old price too. Good luck with it.

Hooray New Gear Day. 8-)
WOW !! Congrats,  GREAT amp !

Ciao !
Marco

Thanks fellas, enjoying it alright, serious wanking time, just what I needed anyway, getting in decent playing shape while learing the amp.

Quickie high gain clip, getting closer to nabbing the sound I hear in the room, this is at pretty normal volume...

Higher gain drivel
Wow, you remind me of, well, ME!  About two to three years ago anyway.  ;) :)

New gear is so much fun!  8-)
Very noice Derek! ;) Damn son, you got TWO monster heads now! Congrats bro...  :)

cgtrox  8-)
CraigBert — Mar 31, 2009Wow, you remind me of, well, ME!  About two to three years ago anyway.  ;) :)

New gear is so much fun!  8-)

Yeah, you were crazy with the gear methinks! I'm personally set to run with it now though, got what I need with these two heads and the couple pedals, and I wouldn't have even entertained the idea of a new head ATM if The Assman hadn't just kindly bought my Peavey, it made the cash outta hand for this one next to nothing, lol!

cgtrox — Mar 31, 2009Very noice Derek! ;) Damn son, you got TWO monster heads now! Congrats bro...  :)

cgtrox  8-)

Thanks dude. I still think the thing is butt ugly, but the tones are there (though I've yet to prove it with a great clip), thats what matters, and unlike the others, it cover more than just one type of sound well. Yeah, I would've rather had the money to buy a US/CA made Bogner (either the Extacy or a Shiva), but heh, China made was the best route for now, maybe someday...
Congrats on the new amp, glad to hear you like it...

funny concept, the Lead channel actually being for lead...

HAHA...

Clips sound cool, glad to hearyou have your amp combination figured out.
Thanks dude. I still think the thing is butt ugly, but the tones are there (though I've yet to prove it with a great clip), thats what matters, and unlike the others, it cover more than just one type of sound well. Yeah, I would've rather had the money to buy a US/CA made Bogner (either the Extacy or a Shiva), but heh, China made was the best route for now, maybe someday...


LOL! I think it looks pretty cool! I get some very good tones out of my SpiderValve/Bogner from China as well. Especially after the new tube preamp labotomy. ;) ;D ;D

cgtrox  8-)
Kabala — Mar 31, 2009
Thanks fellas, enjoying it alright, serious wanking time, just what I needed anyway, getting in decent playing shape while learing the amp.

Quickie high gain clip, getting closer to nabbing the sound I hear in the room, this is at pretty normal volume...

Higher gain drivel



Oh yeah nice tone but louder than I could play in my home here. (I live in a tiny mobile home called a Park Model RV, the walls are thin and I like my neighbors on 2 sides and back and front)(I can sit at my neighbors outside table chatting, and hear my wife talking on the phone in the house with the windows closed)  The tone you got there is similar to what I was getting at louder than I can play for long volumes. Very nice. I always said it rocked at higher volume levels than I could use around here.

Thanks Richard, I'm getting there anyway!

desertbluesman — Mar 31, 2009
Oh yeah nice tone but louder than I could play in my home here. (I live in a tiny mobile home called a Park Model RV, the walls are thin and I like my neighbors on 2 sides and back and front)(I can sit at my neighbors outside table chatting, and hear my wife talking on the phone in the house with the windows closed)  The tone you got there is similar to what I was getting at louder than I can play for long volumes. Very nice. I always said it rocked at higher volume levels than I could use around here.

Thanks Harv! Its a step in the right direction anyway...and I won't lie, that was recorded LOUD, I had to open my booth door to listen closely for a new rattle the mic/monitors was picking up and while hitting notes, OUCH, I forgot how well the proofed closet holds back the sound! The rattle was one of the cabs handles, lol, it was jiggling.

Good luck with the Lonestar today, betting it'll be all that you expected. (=

cgtrox — Mar 31, 2009LOL! I think it looks pretty cool! I get some very good tones out of my SpiderValve/Bogner from China as well. Especially after the new tube preamp labotomy. ;) ;D ;D

cgtrox  8-)

Heh, if you say so, I still think it looks like a piece of luggage, lol, at least by comparison to the CA Bogners, now THEY look sexy, the Alchemist line just looks "okay."  :)

I'm sure you're getting great tones, you've put the hours in with it (lucky), I mean regardless of where they're made, if the design and what not get the same care from the creators that know their shit and have a proven track record, I figure it should...sure, there's always a chance a company could churn out crappola from whomever is getting paid next to nothing in some steamy, crammed tight factory slapping them together, but that doesn't always happen, and even then, its usually more a question of craftsmanship and build quality, not design (IMO).
I actually thought The Alchemist looked well built. I was impressed as can be on the fit, finish, and design of the thing. I set the one I tried on its front (gently) (I have screwed speakers up, flopping a cabinet over on the floor without slowing the momentum down any) Anyways I looked inside the underneath of the amp and saw how it was put together. I studied it for a while, and was real impressed with the quality and design of the build.
Kabala — Mar 31, 2009and I won't lie, that was recorded LOUD,


I could tell by the clip that it was cranked, and man the clip you posted sounds as tasty as almost any amp I have ever heard.
desertbluesman — Mar 31, 2009
I could tell by the clip that it was cranked, and man the clip you posted sounds as tasty as almost any amp I have ever heard.

Thanks! I've been trying to get a more mellow sample for yeah, something smoother but still with teeth, like in this great youtube sample...

Falling Up YouTube Vid

Now I wasn't even close on the notes, lol, just trying to dupe that tone, which is awesome IMO, with the new amp...

here's my stab at that Smoother Tone
That was a great sound...and the funny thing is, it reminded me a lot of this great weird solid state H&K amp a friend of mine had years ago. I don't remember which model it was, but I do remember it had an oversized 2x12" cabinet and sounded great from bedroom levels to cranked. It only had two sounds (and the EQ usually just made things sound crappy, especially on the lead channel), but the lead tone sounded almost identical to what you just posted.

And to me that's not a bad thing. I cranked an Alchemist head with the 2x12" cab in the soundroom at my local Best Buy (it's one of the weird-and-oh-so-cool ones with a music store inside), and it sounded really nice, but didn't have a lot of character to my ears. Your clip, on the other hand, sounded much, much better than I remember, making me wonder if the generic sound was more a result of me playing a Schecter SG knockoff than the amp itself (because some amps are super sensitive to what guitar you put into them).

My biggest issue with guitar amps like that is that if you have to crank it to get the tone, it limits their usefulness. I don't generally like really loud guitar amps, though. I've always had really sensitive ears. Hence my use of various PODs and Line 6 amps for the past 10 years. I want the tone (or at least an approximation of it) without the volume.

Out of curiosity, I did hook my Vetta combo up to my stereo 4x12" once and cranked it at full power (a 3/4 stack).

The volume nearly killed me. :D

Glad you're enjoying the amp so far!
Tripper
Tripper — Apr 01, 2009
And to me that's not a bad thing. I cranked an Alchemist head with the 2x12" cab in the soundroom at my local Best Buy (it's one of the weird-and-oh-so-cool ones with a music store inside), and it sounded really nice, but didn't have a lot of character to my ears. Your clip, on the other hand, sounded much, much better than I remember, making me wonder if the generic sound was more a result of me playing a Schecter SG knockoff than the amp itself (because some amps are super sensitive to what guitar you put into them).
Tripper


I think the Alchemist series varies in quality from amp to amp. The one I sent back sounded similar to what he posted when turned up. I played 4 guitars through it. and it did not matter which one was played, it sounded similar (except for my strat clone)

From what I heard his sounded very similar like the one I sent back. Once past conversation levels it got some character, but it was choked off below that.
We have a Alchemist 212 acting flaky here at the store.  If you turn the delay pedal past 50%, the channel switches.

Kabala — Apr 01, 2009
Thanks! I've been trying to get a more mellow sample for yeah, something smoother but still with teeth, like in this great youtube sample...

Falling Up YouTube Vid

Now I wasn't even close on the notes, lol, just trying to dupe that tone, which is awesome IMO, with the new amp...

here's my stab at that Smoother Tone


Maybe you should get an AEA ribbon mic... which they used to record all of their Alchemist Youtube vids... only $1700...  but the frequency response might give you clue to why their stuff sounds so freaking smooth...


LOL, $1700??! Thats nearly double what I paid for the amp! No wonder I'm not close!

Anyway, I like it the amp, especially the high gain stuff, it does have the Bogner voicing (which I am quickly growing more fond of, can see a another/US built Bogner off in my future), well, a smooth variation of it acording to dudes on the Bogner forum that own it as well as Shiva's, XTC's, etc, guess thats why several of them desired to add it to their arsenal. And for me, cranking it is not an issue, hard to believe its only 40 watts, but it does sound nice up there. I agree with the others, its getting beat sonically by the other recent low gain amps at convo volumes like the HT-5 and the Rebel 20, etc, but heh, I personally thought it sounded better then those cranked, not even close actually, but thats just me.

charger — Apr 01, 2009 but the frequency response might give you clue to why their stuff sounds so freaking smooth...
Wow I have never seen anything like that before, I would have to study up on mikes if I was to ever record again seriously (Doubtful because I am not into recording very much anymore).
Of course, you don't have to pay $1700 for a ribbon microphone.  Buying AEA is like buying Neumann or Royer.  You do it because you want to pay another 90% to get another 5% of quality.

Here's a really good one for $199.
http://www.bayviewproaudio.com/VINJET-p-22802.html

And here's some even better ones for $250-400.
http://www.shinybox.com/ribbons.php
Dearthian: — Apr 01, 2009We have a Alchemist 212 acting flaky here at the store.  If you turn the delay pedal past 50%, the channel switches.



that's the "You can't handle the delay" feature.  

Much lower volume for this (unless you crank your speakers ;D), using the 20watt mode in fact, sorta chunky style. Still not quite there but getting better (?)

Spongey Chunk

Think I'm gonna consider an e609 this weekend, might pair it up with the sm57 and start learing the dual mic thing, be it on a single speaker or 2 different ones.

Why get an e609?  That's a mic that is not very different from a 57.  As a replacement for the 57, it would be fine.  Paired with it, you're going to be hearing mostly the same thing, just more of it.  

I highly recommend a ribbon mic.  I can't say this enough.  Nothing will give you more of a flavor that will allow you to really mix two sounds together than a ribbon + a dynamic.  And you might find, like I do, that the ribbon mic becomes the main sound in your recording.

Nady's got a couple ribbons right at $80... although they aren't going to blow your mind like a shinybox might, I have a couple of very similar Chinese ribbons and the sound is definitely there.

Hmmm, I'll look into that then, especially at that price, hell, $80 is cheaper then the 609! I only read up on the e609, never owned/tried one, I saw where lots of people feel its a great mic to place a little further out on a speaker, catches the resonance and cab better then others in its price range, supposedly that blends with the 57 well when the 57 is getting more of the speaker.

edit: damn, this one has good word of mouth/reviews well, and its as cheap as you said:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Nady-RSM-4-Ribbon-Studio-Microphone-104473939-i1127184.gc