57 posts
First off, for Craig, NAD is a popular abbreviation for "New Amp Day." And placing the word "GO" in front of it does not make it a cheer.
Now that we have that out of the way, I got a Mesa TA 15 head yesterday. As you may have guessed, Paul, I mean, Mr. RectoZilla and I have been discussing these recently and he just picked up the big brother. I got a TA 15 head used on Craigs List. I only had a brief time with it last night, but so far, I"m thinking it's the second "tiny little Mesa home run" I've hit. There appears to be all kinds of great tones in this thing and the feature set is great. Funny thing, I was completely sold on this amp before the Mini Rec came out, and the only reason I didn't buy it was because it didn't have an effects loop. After a quick session last night, I'm thinking that's not going to be that big of a deal.
Quick summary of quick tryout. Both Vox voices sound really good and authentic. The Tweed voice is very nice! The Marshall voice is very nice, and of course, the Mesa voice is nice. 3 power modes on mine, 5/15/25 watt. VERY nice feature! And, significantly different sound and feel.
I wanted a really nice 5 watter. Now, I have FIVE really nice 5 watt voices in one amp, AND the ability to power up when I need more.
So far, loving it. More after a few days of trying it out.
DreamTheaterRules — Mar 18, 2014First off, for Craig, NAD is a popular abbreviation for "New Amp Day." And placing the word "GO" in front of it does not make it a cheer.
LOL!
Grats on the amp Howie. I be diggin mine...
"These aren't the NADS you're looking for..." ;)
Congrats Howie, good to hear you are happy with it.
Nice find. Sound like it has some pretty versatile features. That one of Rectodude's has a nice sound. Are we gonna have to start calling him T&A zilla. LOL ;D
Let me know when your other 5 watters need to find a new home. I might know of a place where at least one of them they can live.
Ya know, KrankZilla was like the perfect name. But Mesa kinda isn't as easy to find names for. :D
yes it is BoogieZilla!! but sadly you dont own any Boogies just Mesas...
One day I will be MarkVZilla...
ME FIRST ME FIRST!! Mark V is looking more and more appealing! I want one first! LOL
Deano, the Class 5 and VHT Special 6 Ultra are both available... be listing both soon.
Hmmm.. Boogie names w/ Zilla..... "SubwayRocketZilla," (kinda long), "Rectoverbzilla" (too close to an anal porn star name) "StilettoZilla (sounds too much like Craig and his buddies on "wig and high heel night" ) "LoneStarZilla" (probably better leave that one for someone who lives in cowboy land... like Richard) "KingSnakeZilla" (has a nice ring too it, but already taken by David Lee Roth)
DreamTheaterRules — Mar 18, 2014First off, for Craig, NAD is a popular abbreviation for "New Amp Day." And placing the word "GO" in front of it does not make it a cheer.
Now that we have that out of the way, I got a Mesa TA 15 head yesterday. As you may have guessed, Paul, I mean, Mr. RectoZilla and I have been discussing these recently and he just picked up the big brother. I got a TA 15 head used on Craigs List. I only had a brief time with it last night, but so far, I"m thinking it's the second "tiny little Mesa home run" I've hit. There appears to be all kinds of great tones in this thing and the feature set is great. Funny thing, I was completely sold on this amp before the Mini Rec came out, and the only reason I didn't buy it was because it didn't have an effects loop. After a quick session last night, I'm thinking that's not going to be that big of a deal.
Quick summary of quick tryout. Both Vox voices sound really good and authentic. The Tweed voice is very nice! The Marshall voice is very nice, and of course, the Mesa voice is nice. 3 power modes on mine, 5/15/25 watt. VERY nice feature! And, significantly different sound and feel.
I wanted a really nice 5 watter. Now, I have FIVE really nice 5 watt voices in one amp, AND the ability to power up when I need more.
So far, loving it. More after a few days of trying it out.
Clips?
lol none of those you listed Howie are Boogie's except the Kingsnake, they are Mesa's big difference.
Congrats on the new amp, DTR!
charger — Mar 18, 2014[quote author=DreamTheaterRules link=1395161133/0#0 date=1395161133]First off, for Craig, NAD is a popular abbreviation for "New Amp Day." And placing the word "GO" in front of it does not make it a cheer.
Now that we have that out of the way, I got a Mesa TA 15 head yesterday. As you may have guessed, Paul, I mean, Mr. RectoZilla and I have been discussing these recently and he just picked up the big brother. I got a TA 15 head used on Craigs List. I only had a brief time with it last night, but so far, I"m thinking it's the second "tiny little Mesa home run" I've hit. There appears to be all kinds of great tones in this thing and the feature set is great. Funny thing, I was completely sold on this amp before the Mini Rec came out, and the only reason I didn't buy it was because it didn't have an effects loop. After a quick session last night, I'm thinking that's not going to be that big of a deal.
Quick summary of quick tryout. Both Vox voices sound really good and authentic. The Tweed voice is very nice! The Marshall voice is very nice, and of course, the Mesa voice is nice. 3 power modes on mine, 5/15/25 watt. VERY nice feature! And, significantly different sound and feel.
I wanted a really nice 5 watter. Now, I have FIVE really nice 5 watt voices in one amp, AND the ability to power up when I need more.
So far, loving it. More after a few days of trying it out.
Clips?
Asking Howie for clips? I'm LMAO!
New Amp Day that is better than a birthday...... Good luck with it amigo.....
Dang straight! I never get amps for my birthday! :)
Thanks Kabala, and DBM.
Ligerborn, ok I will ask. What's the big difference between Mesa and Boogie?
KrankZilla was great! MarkVZilla doesn't flow as well. Mach5Zilla sounds too speedy. Howsabout AZillaTheHun lol. ;D
I'm wanted to change my user name to "Boogie Man"
DreamTheaterRules — Mar 19, 2014I'm wanted to change my user name to "Boogie Man"
"Black Noise Man" would be more appropriate. ;)
Haha you wisecrackers!
I tried the TA15 with the Red Fang Alnico tonight. OMG!!! Both vox channels KILL. Tweed, KILLS. Marshall, kills for old school M-tones!
Honeymoon stage, yes. But... This amp is incredible! And I have the sound clips to prove it...
In my head. ;)
The thing that intrigues me about the atlantic series (which includes the electra dyne btw), I've heard/read they can also dial in Mark tones. Have you experienced that yet?
No, but I'm not sure I know exactly what the mark tones are. From what I've read, each one 1-4 is different, V has them all in it, and no other mesa claims to do those tones. That doesn't mean they don't get close, but Mesa doesn't claim the TA, or RA or Express or any of the other series, get the Mark tones.
I will tell you this. I thought I was getting in the ball park on my Mini on the Vintage channel. When I asked at the Boogie forum how to dial in Mark IIC type tones with my mini, every answer was "you can't!" When I asked what was so different, one guy replied that I'd need an EQ and it still wouldn't be the same. Everyone else just said "you can't get close with a mini." I have some tones on the Vintage channel that are sooooo good, if they aren't close to a Mark tone, I don't care. :)
p.s. Don't mean that the way it might sound. Just mean, I'm not sure exactly what "the Mark sound" is, and my Vintage channel on the Mini gets very close to some Mesa tones that I love so that's good enough for me. I haven't had enough time to fully explore the Mesa setting on the TA15 yet.
DreamTheaterRules — Mar 20, 2014No, but I'm not sure I know exactly what the mark tones are. From what I've read, each one 1-4 is different,
True Howie, I had 3 boogies. Mark II C+ is the first one I ever had, It started out as a Mark II B then I had it C'd then C+'d, then I got the Quad Preamp and Strategy 400 power amp which had two amp pres in it, each with a clean and drive channel. The Quad Pre sounded like the IIC and also the Mark 3. I gave that amp to a friend of mine in Philly in return for a favor he did for me, and I went and bought a Mark IV (My least favorite Mesa amp) All three were similar sounding, but had distinct differences also.
It gets pretty funny. The Mark V has a 2C+ channel, and yet purists say it can't match a real 2C+. The 2C+ is also known as the holy grail among some metal guys (JP, Metallica, etc) and yet I'm pretty sure dbm didn't use it for those kind of tones. So what is a Mark tone? :)
my apologies if I said this here before, but Randall Smith posted at TGP in a thread with people saying just what Paul said, that the IIC+ tones in the Mark V were not identical to the Mark IIC+ amp, to which he replied that the circuit was 100% identical, and that any difference anyone heard was the tubes, or the cab they used or very minute differences due to parts tolerances, which he said could easily be matched with minor adjustments to the knobs. He said it was a dead on exact copy. Some guys then speculated "well maybe it's the iron" to which he replied again saying NO that they had spec'd the transformers and they were the same spec also. He then speculated that some of the 20 year old amps may sound a bit different now due to actually needing to be recap'd.
That said, I tried the amp with a closed back cab with a Private Jack (greenback) tonight. More crazy love here. I swear, this thing is like having about 10 amps. 5 settings at 5 watts give 5 distinct amp flavors, ALL KILLER low watt tones. Switching it to 15 watt mode give each one of those a whole new sound and vibe, so it's like 5 more amps! And I mean this, they ALL sound GREAT!
I have to say that as much as I LOVE he Mini Rec, for most people this amp is a better choice. Both Vox voices, Tweed, Marshall and Mesa, all in one box, with multiple wattage and ALL SOUND GREAT... I bought this amp for $500 less than a year old. Right now, I feel pretty confident saying everyone here would LOVE one of these things even if you didn't want or need all 5 voices. There is an CRAZY variety of GREAT tones in this amp! I'm in love.
well the Mark or Boogie tone, is pretty different from the Mesa vibe, part of it is the eq points in the regular eq part of it is the 5 band eq and where it is placed in the chain. Then just how the eq affects the gain is different.
I have had 2 M/B amps the DC-5 (Stripped MK III) and the Rocket 44, (its own gain design from the Boogie or Recto) I have also played friends MkIIc+, quad pre, Studio Pre and a Single Recto. To me the Boogie stuff has more Bark, in the low mids, and the gain structure is just different more cream than Chainsaw.
The eq points of the 5 band play a large part into the Metal/hard rock users tone. Though not all of it.
Given choice I would take a Boogie over a Mesa any day of the week.
But the TAs do have something that I havent seen in other Mesa's for sure.
So, if I'm hearing you correctly, you are saying that as great as the Mini and TA's are, Paul and I both need a Mark V. Is that it in a nutshell? :)
I can live with that. Heck, you might all get lucky, because it it's even better than what I have now, I will never come out of that music room and won't have time to play on here. LOL (Joke aside, these two are so great that the Mark V has become my holy grail amp).
lol what I am saying is for me I prefer the Boogie base to the Mesa Recto/Rocket base.
The TA's dunno not played one, the sound from what I have heard/read from you two to be a great amp.
The Mk V dunno never played or heard one unaffected.
You have to want to cough up some serious Coin to get a V, I myself am happy with my Mesa X from Jaded Faith Mods for my Randall RM4. I gets me the tone I want for Boogie vibe.
Honestly very happy you guys got amps you love, the Mini and the TA.
One other thing (yes, i have rally been reading up on the Mark series even before I got the TA) many people at TGP and at the Boogie Board say that the Marks all had various forums of magic, but that they had to be VERY Loud to get the magic. But they all agree that the Mark V can do all kinds of magic at any volume from low to face melting. Several guys at the BB said they eventually sold their classics and bought Mark V's because the couldn't ever turn their older ones up loud enough to get the great sound, even at gigs, but the Mark V did sound great at the volumes they could get away with, including at home. Several agreed that the master was so good that they didn't even used the watt switches and ran them full out 90 watt mode even at home. In this same discussion, a number of them agreed that the old Marks needed to be turned up "past 5" to sound their best. Several also commented that they sold their lower power "at home" amps because the V sounded good at lower volumes.
Also, I have found out lately that several older tones i LOVED and always assumed were hot rodded Marshall, were actually Boogies, John Sykes on Blue Murder and much of the Whitesnake, for example!
The funniest thing about that is that back then I always loved Mesa Boogie... But I associated it with Santana tone!
by and large correct on volume, but model is always a factor. the studio pre for example sounded damn good whether through his 20/20 or his 50/50.
conversely the MkII C+ had to be cranked.
my DC-5 sounded best with the master at around 4. the Rocket the same.
Really depends on what you are looking for and what your needs are tone and volume wise.
And yes JS used Mesa's their Coliseum Heads Mk III these run 6 6L6 tubes. so yeah thinking loud for sure, he has been using Marshall 50 watt JCM800s for around 10 years now, per his website.
http://www.johnsykes.com/Equipment/index.html
to be honest if I was you, I would simply be happy with the new amp, Seems to me you are running down the rabbit hole.
I think Richard pretty much nailed the description for me, same perspective anyway. To me the Mark series has a very distinctive low, low-mid growl to it, unlike anything else I've heard from the Mesa family anyway. But it still cuts without fizzing (if it's loud enuff). It's almost like a touch of JMP (say through a v30 type cab) folded in with a Boogie at the end of the cooking process (in some ways I guess). Nothing else sounds exactly like a Mark series that I've ever heard. They nailed it a long time ago. That's why I was hopeful and curious when I read several happy Royal Atlantic owners claiming they were tickled to find "some"mk like" tones in their amp. Ah well, if a IV ever surfaces around these parts I certainly will be sampling it again/closer.
Ligerborn, not really chasing the rabbit, just studying his mannerisms now, in case I ever do decide to hunt him. :) I have stated often that I don't EVER need more than 25-30 watts, but Mesa will never offer a "mini Mark. Asked often at TGP and Randall basica lly said the Mark V is our flagship and so it will be the only one with all those features. So if you want access to Mark 1-4 tones, you have to pony up for the big boy.
And yes, crazy happy with what I have now. I don't see me pursuing a V any time soon. Honestly, and I may get a second on this from someone else here, between the Mini and TA, there are SO many kinds of great tones available it's hard to imagine needing anything more.
D, after reading your remarks, it occurs to me that when I used the Red Shift with the Mini, it gave it a similar low mids kick to what I heard on some Mark IIC+ samples. Unfortunately, I sold it to fund the TA. But, if that's part of the "Mark" thing, I have an a graphic EQ, a parametric mids EQ and a couple other pedals (Barber Gain Changer in particular) that I can use for a similar kick in the low mids.
The Gain Changer is not in the same place as the Red, but was close.
There is a IIB 1x12 combo in the GC where I got my TA for $999. Pretty beat up. No EQ. Wish I had a chance to try it out.
the II B is damn sketchy, had all kinds of issues. and didnt have the eq in any model.
BOth A and B models were pretty messy and considered flops by and large.
Howie it isnt so uch a graphic eq but the bands and the Q of the 5 band Boogie eq.
Oh I forgot another Mesa I played a Studio 22 cal with EQ also damn tasty and low wattage.
And Howie you have to understand you got a brand new amp and are already talking about something else, to me that is like getting a new GF/Wife and before even getting in the sack looking for a new one.
Just dont seem right to me personally.
I like the .22 caliber and I have much lust for a DC-series... there are a few around town in the $500 range, that seems like a good price for a combo. Unfortunately the power is just too high on those things... I need 5-18 watts. Not 40 or 50. The TA-15 sounds cool but it's out of my price range.
yeah having had the DC-5 it definitely was too many watts
RectoZilla — Mar 20, 2014It gets pretty funny. The Mark V has a 2C+ channel, and yet purists say it can't match a real 2C+. The 2C+ is also known as the holy grail among some metal guys (JP, Metallica, etc) and yet I'm pretty sure dbm didn't use it for those kind of tones. So what is a Mark tone? :)
I used it for hard rock at the time, Cream, Zepplin, Hendrix, all that style, and I was also into McLaughlin and DeMeola and did a bit of loud jazzy rock thingies. The IIC+ needed to be cranked for the magic, no question about it. Plus I was using EVM12L's also which don't really shine until they are pushing a big bit of air. I still have that 200 watt EVM12L that came with my Mark II when it was a "B". I also have a 300 watt rated EVM12L which I blew with the Strategy 400 Power amp. I was using 4 of them with that Strategy 400, and I fried one of them at some point. I sent it back to EV and they fixed it for free......
I was playing some hard rock at the time not quite metal yet, but it's precursor. I can see the IIC+ as a great metal amp as were the other two Boogies I had, all of them would have worked for metal and high gain stuff.
I would sure love to have a crack at the Mark V for a week or so after the snow birds leave here, and I could really crank it a bit......
Further update after tonights session, but first...
Ligerborn, to be clear, the Mark V. is my dream amp, but I am not chasing one at all right now. Most of the research was as result of A) learning about the classic Mark tones and how I may or may not be able to get them with the mini, and B) joining the Boogie board and just checking out the conversations there. Not being smug or anything, but if I really wanted one now, I would have sold 5 more pedals and the Budda, and had the money to get one now. So, I'm not two-timing her just yet. Well, I am with the Mini Rec. ;D
So, my update tonight is more about the multiple wattage options, and their effect on the amp and its five voices. So, it will probably mean more to Paul, and anyone who considers buying one, and for the rest it will be just informational on how they work.
These are "across the board" statements that apply to all 5 voices:
5 watt mode- this mode is a single ended class A mode. As such, it does all of these voices just like you would expect if you have played other single ended class A amps. It is the loosest, spongiest and lowest volume mode. All five modes are very well done and sound very good at low to medium volumes. This mode allows you to push the power tube without getting in trouble with the wife. If this was the only mode this amp had, with a bit lower price it would probably still be wildly popular due to the 5 great voices and quality of tone.
15 watt mode- this mode really opens up the amp, It is still class A... But it is push-pull! At 15 watts class A push-pull, it is similar to a Vox power section. So, this is still a slightly looser feel than a class AB amp, but is significantly tighter and more open than a single ended class A amp.
25 watt mode- this is mesa's dynawatt, which is similar to class AB. This opens the amp up even more AND tightens it up like a class AB amp.
When this amp first came out, i wondered "why not just a 5 watt and 25 watt settings?" Well, what they have done gives three different types of power output along with the three wattage settings and each has a completely different feel and response. This is actually one of the best features on the amp! You want not very loud tones? Leave it in 5 watt. You want volume but that sweet class A response? 15 watt mode. You want the tightest punchiest tones? 25 watt mode for you.
Further, the difference between Paul's amp and mine, is that the TA 30 has 15,30 and 40 watt modes. The 15 watt is push pull class A (2 power tubes)
30 watt is push pull class A (4 power tubes)
40 watt is push pull class AB
So it has two push pull class A modes (Vox style) and one class AB, but no single ended class A. When Paul and I started talking about these, we were both looking at the 15. The crazy deal he got was on the one that's probably better for him in that he likes tighter tones so he would use a single ended class A section the least, and his amp doesn't have one. It also has some other great features that I would love to have, but I am good with the 15! Tonight instead of focusing on the voices, and changing speakers, I spent my whole time checking out the wattage options, and what the did to tone, feel and response.
The honeymoon is not over...
Well, I dont fully get your mentality, but I simply boil that down to how I look at music and gear and how you do.
To me they are tools, used to complete the task at hand. And I worked to find the combination of tools I needed to do the work I wanted to accomplish.
I realize that is not how you see things. and thankfully we dont have to see things the same way.
I am very glad you like the new amp.
Yeah, I get that. Different strokes. Like the first time Charger said something similar and made the point that he tossed his guitar in the back seat of his car without a case. I put mine in the hard shell case more carefully than that. ;)
I don't look at them as tools, but as a source of pleasure. Just like, a Ford Focus will get me anywhere I need to go, but a Camaro or Vette will make the trip a whole lot more enjoyable. :)
And now that I've said I wasn't chasing one, I'll add a small revision. I was watching a mint Mark V head on ebay. One went for just under $1,500. If I had gotten curious about these a few months ago and been watching them, and had an idea I could have bought one for that, I would have waited a bit longer, sold the Budda and a few more pedals and bought one of them instead of the TA. But now I'm so happy with the Mini and TA that I'll focus on the Taylor T5z or the PRS Brent Mason model next.
Kabala, I think I'm going to amend my previous statement about Mark tones. I had used the Mesa voice the least of the 5 in most of my early sessions with the TA. At lower volumes, the Marshall and Mesa voices sounded similar... Last night I got to crank it up a bit, not loud but plenty loud enough to get a good opinion of the voices. The voices are significantly different. The Marshall has the mids kick and more crunch. The Mesa... smoother and... again, I'm no "Mark expert" but it definitely does sound more like what I perceive to be a Mark type lead tone. I'll be interested to hear what Paul says once he's had more time with it.
I was using the Red Fang Alnico, which does smooth all the tones in a fantastic way. And, I did toggle between the 15 watt and 25 watt modes. Now that I had a chance to turn it up some, I LOVE the Mesa voice and again, think it is at least in the ball park of what I associated with "Mark" tones in the past. You could certainly do Santana all day with the Mesa voice!
Charger- the more I play this, the more I think this is THE amp for you. Between the 5 voices and 3 output stage choices, I think you'd LOVE this amp. And, they are STUPID cheap for how good they sound. Under $600 for one of these used is crazy and you can easily find one for that. I know what you like. You'd LOVE this amp!!!
I have a Warehouse G8C and I am having a convertible open/closed back pine cab made for it. That and the TA will be my own custom kind of Tweed Champ, (and whatever else that speaker works well for).
Week two, and I am still ecstatic with this amp!
Well it doesn't really matter, does it. As long as it sounds great and you're enjoying it, it doesn't truly matter if it sounds exactly one way or another, nails a dead on this or that. Guess that's true for all amps. We make them for work with what we have and just roll with it. Sounds like you settled on this one, at least for now, so that's good!
I think I got lost in your amp shuffle lately (think you're worse than me, though lately I'm stable there, it's guitars I've been moving/adding)...what is your stash looking like now anyway? How's that updated music room coming? :)
LOL, well, I sold all pedals to buy this amp, so as of now the amp lineup is.. (from left to right in the music room. LOL)
Tweaker
Budda SD18
Mesa Mini Rec
Marshall Class 5 (for sale)
VHT Special 6 (sold and shipping to a forum member near you soon)
Mesa TA15
Fender Acoustasonic Jr.
Fender Vibro Champ XD (will be for sale soon)
Fender Mustang Mini
Roland Micro Cube
Interesting things happening. I bought-to-try a number of lower watt amps. The Vibro, Class 5 and VHT are all good at what they do, and very cheap. But as of now, the Mesa's are taking over. I could sell the Tweaker and even the Superdrive and not look back.
Hey Howie, what are your showroom hours? :)
For you? 24/7. Come on down. :)
Glad you were able to turn it up a bit, and notice the difference in the voices.
only thing that concerns me with the marshall and mesa modes is no mid control. but might not be an issue if they are voiced well.