96 posts
I'm leaving work right now. So, to the tune of "Going to the Chapel, and Fingerjimmy is gonna get married.." I'd like everyone to sing along. Here goes....
"Going to guitar center and I'm, gonna get a Bogner Red" Everybody sing!
Way too short of a time with it tonight. Met the wife for dinner after GC. Got home late. In 10 minutes i had it was clear that this is at least really good. But OMG so many options! Every switch position made significant changes in sound.
More to follow. But so far, so good.
Ok, I got a solid 45 minutes with it Saturday night. Only tried it with the Carvin guitar and the Tweaker. I spend the first 30 minutes with the Tweaker on the Marshall tone stack. Just flipping switches and dialing knobs on the Red. It's been a while since I actually looked at the instructions for more than a few seconds on a pedal. In fact, taking out digital modulation pedals, it's been a while since I looked at one for more than a few seconds on any OD/Distortion pedal. I had the manual out the whole time I played it the other night.
I can't imagine a guitar/amp/speaker combination that you couldn't dial this pedal in with. Just having B/M/T in a pedal is nice, but this thing lets you tweak WAY more than that.
I always hesitate to say how great something is right off the bat as you always tend to find the flaws of mediocre stuff quickly but the good stuff it usually takes a while. But this pedal sounds great. It really does some things in a more "amp-like" manner than any pedal I've ever used. I had a pretty serious amount of gain dialed in, and the more I rolled the volume on the guitar off, the cleaner it got. Many pedals do this well, and some great (OCD) as long as the gain is not up too high. I had a nice higher gain tone going and rolled it all the way to pretty clean with the guiltar volume knob. That is a major feature and one that goes hand in hand with the next one....
The boost feature is perhaps the best designed one I've ever used. In fact, I'll just say that as of now it IS the best one. The boost has a level and a gain knob! But that's not all. With level and gain, you can obviously set your boost to just kick up volume (BIG boost if you want it) or to add more gain with the volume. This along with how well it cleans up, means many people could do a gig with a clean amp and this pedal... and EVEN leave this pedal on all the time. Clean to mean to solo boosts on top of mean... all in this pedal.
The switches allow a crazy amount of tonal tweaking that should match it to any guitar and amp and to the type of tone you want out of it.
And the tone? More to follow, but this is one of if not the best sounding pedals I've ever heard. It really does have the character and tone of the Bogner Chase had and the AXE FX on the Bogner Red setting that he also had. It has that voice.
I hesitated to buy a $300 pedal. Thanks to a $50 coupon for GC, I got it for $250. Might be the best $250 I've ever spend. This is a GREAT pedal!
Ironically, from the "you never know til you try it" line of thoughts, the first pedal i thought would be on the block when I got this, was the Barber Dirty Bomb. I figured this pedal would replace that and make it not be needed any more. I had them sitting right next to each other on my board, along with the new Barber Gain Changer, the Jetter Red Shift, and the Timmy. With the Timmy set as a clean boost with a bit of hair, the Gain Changer set to LTD mode meaning low gain/mid hump sweet sound, I Tried all of the others as a "primary sound" with the Timmy and GC as solo boosts. The Dirty Bomb does not sound like the Red. But it is a mean, more modern higher gain tone. For now, it is not going anywhere. That pedal sounds GREAT and is a steal for the price for most peoples setups. Also, with it in it's mid hump mode, it didn't have as much mids as the Red with the mids flat. Like I said, more scooped and modern high gain, were the Red truly is more Bogner Red Channel sounding. If I wanted a really tight, scooped rhythm modern tone, I could dial the Red in for that no problem. The Dirty Bomb does it by simply turning it on. Not the same tone and not saying it's better. The Red has a richness and character to it that strongly resembles one of the best amp tones I've ever heard. It does what it says and does it very well.
More to follow...
cool! let me ask this... you've heard (probably too many) clips with my uber. would the red give me something really different? like, lower gain but an awesome, thicker tone? I'm curious about how much of the territory between the flexi and uber that pedal can cover. that's why I've been interested in the blue - it might sit in that space between the two amps.
I'll listen to some clips of the uber again and let you know. I think it could cover most of it. In fact, everyone I've heard that has or tried both pedals, says that the Red has more gain than the Uber pedal. It has a lot. But it's rich, fat gain. Like the real Red channel of the 101B I heard.
Where might we find some uber clips again sheep? I was searching for some the other day, I'm working by my extremely limited memory, lol...
asking an eskimo for ice cubes... :)
http://www.ironsheep.com/mp3/ironsheep/Media/83check.mp3
http://www.ironsheep.com/mp3/ironsheep/Media/unfranzeled.mp3
http://www.ironsheep.com/mp3/ironsheep/Media/114jam.mp3
http://www.ironsheep.com/mp3/ironsheep/Media/bogtest1221.mp3
http://www.ironsheep.com/mp3/ironsheep/Media/56samp.mp3
http://www.ironsheep.com/mp3/ironsheep/Media/09272010jam.mp3
http://www.ironsheep.com/mp3/ironsheep/Media/09212010jam.mp3
ok, stopping there... heh.
Had some more time with the Red. I don't want to get all audiophile here, but in describing these devices and especially the "can this sound like that" questions, there are a couple things I want to point out. When we compare devices, whether it be one amp to another, or one pedal that is supposed to sound like an amp, to the actual amp, or any such comparisons, there are several factors which define their "character."
When we are talking devices with a lot of gain, the character of the distortion is a big factor in why one sounds different than the next. The mix of harmonics, by design, defines the character of the gain or distortion. The other main one, is frequency response. The low mids snarl that defines a JCM 800 for example.... You can twist the knobs any way you want and it most cases it still comes through pretty easily that it is a Marshall or some type of clone. I am going to listen to more, but the first clip above shows a familiar snarl that I've heard on several tunes before that I know the lead guitar player used an Uber on.
I know there are many other factors involved in the overall tone of any amp or pedal, but I think these are the two main ones. I have discused at some length the tone of the Mesa Rec series amps with Dar. I have always liked their unique distortion which is hard to describe because it's kind of cold, but yet rich at the same time. Yes it can get fizzy if the top is not eq'd right, but when done right the amps have a unique blend of harmonics that IMO, defines them. IN discussing this with Dar, he laughed when I described that, and then carefully went over the gain stages with me. This conversation was over 2 years ago, but I remember him going over one part of the preamp, where there were 4 gain stages and each was biased differently. One cold, one warm, one hot.... etc. This defines the harmonic content of the amp, and (surprisingly to those of you who think I smoke crack regularly) not only explains my opinion of the tone but completely confirms the circuit does just what I was hearing and does it on purpose.
I said all that to say this. The Bogner Red channel is a higher gain beast, but not your typical modern medal amp. It is smoother than those type amps. (I'd like to stop here to say, smoother can be just rolled off highs to some. If you have plenty of top end and its still smooth, that means there are more even order harmonics present than odd order ones, generally). I think that the Red pedal with an EQ to give that snarl to the right frequency could come close to the Uber tone. Maybe right on it. To sound more like a Mesa Rec, it would need some more odd order harmonics mixed in.
In thinking about this, I now know my next test for the Red. SHO clone > Red. The SHO with the bias knob up can hit the Red with some wilder harmonics on the front end. Might be all it takes to put it in Modern Metal mode. More to follow. Might even break out a mic.
ok, sounds like I was on the right track then - red is probably too close to the sound (not gain so much but profile/style - aka, bogner higher gain tone) I get from the uber. the blue pedal on the uber clean channel might be just the thing to bridge the two sides of that amp and give me some of that lower gain bogner sound.
interesting to read the tech reason why I don't really like mesa rec tones that much. heh.
Ok, so i kept getting frustrated with the UberPedal into the Engl - without the bright switch it was just too dark, and with it on there was a harshness I could never dial out. So in a moment of brilliance I tried it into the clean channel of the Krankenstein with the krank's tone knobs all at 12 o'clock. HOLY CRAP! This thing sounds freaking awesome thru that! I remember reading that the clean channel on the krank was designed to take pedals well but I had no idea...
One extremely cool thing i discovered with the UberPedal is that the boost function (which is exactly what it sounds like, with an adjustable volume of its own) can sort of work as its own OD pedal, letting you hit the amp input harder and tightening the pedal up, without a separate OD pedal... \m/ Of course that would throw off the balance of using the clean channel by itself in a live situation, but for dialing in a massive yet tight sound it's killer.
I must do clips soon...
oh, BTW, thanks for the clips sheep, some magic tones in there!
EDIT: And the playing doesn't suck either :)
np! if there's anything I have in ludicrous surplus, it's clips ;)
good thing I didn't buy a delay pedal yet... a blue might have to be ordered. I have this sinking feeling that I'll wind up with all three :(
ironsheep — Mar 05, 2013np! if there's anything I have in ludicrous surplus, it's clips ;)
Too true! I've got almost 300 Sheep clips saved and that's probably only a portion of the number he's posted! :D
CraigBert — Mar 06, 2013
Too true! I've got almost 300 Sheep clips saved and that's probably only a portion of the number he's posted! :D
no pun intended, I'm sure
DreamTheaterRules — Mar 06, 2013[quote author=CraigBert link=1362175207/0#13 date=1362537191]
Too true! I've got almost 300 Sheep clips saved and that's probably only a portion of the number he's posted! :D
no pun intended, I'm sure
Can't pull the wool over your eyes, eh? ;)
;D ;D
Back to topic. This pedal is really great. I've never seen anything with this much gain, that even with the boost switch on, cleans up so well with the guitar volume knob. Very impressive. The tone is killer! Has the voice of the Bogner Red Channel and it doesn't get much better than that. I know it's a pricey pedal, but so far it lives up to the hype and the price!
Major update: Last night I switched over to the Superdrive 18. I will preface this by saying, there is a certain quality to the high end of the G12H in the Egnator Tweaker cab that I have never cared for. Shows up when using lots of gain, (and explains why David Barber puts a "fizz filter" on many of his pedals. He told me this is exactly why he did it. If your speaker does this, turn it on if not, leave it off. Love that guy... )
Anyway, this was a major update for my thoughts on and this pedal. This pedal sounds phenomenal. Oh, the Superdrive is currently plugged into my Private Jack (Greenback type). The combination of the Budda clean channel and Bogner Red combo is incredible. Now I REALLY hear the Bogner Red Channel tone. And holy crap, all different variations of it. This pedal just sounds wonderful. The best I've ever had. Better than almost any amp I've ever heard.
Also, since I am so convinced it's more the speaker than the amp that made it significantly better, I switched it over quickly to the Special 6 Ultra, clean channel which is connected to a V30. While the S6U doesn't have the balls the Tweaker or Budda does, hearing it though the V30 added a whole more modern slant to all the tones I was digging so much.
Oh boy... this thing is incredible! I am seriously considering taking it back to GC just to compare it to the Uber and the Blue and seeing if they are THIS good. If so, I probably need one or the other... And I'm going to crack up when some of you (cough) non-pedal guys end up with 2-3 of these things. LOL
In fact, I'll tell you how good these are. I've been wanting a mini Rec for a year or more. Buying a second one of these pedals would set me back over half the cash to get one, but if the others are this good, I may get one more then work on the amp. Heck, if the Uber is this good, and that flavor, I may not NEED the amp!
if you're thinking about a blue, to steal your device from the other topic, wait till I post about it later. I got one today, will start a thread once I record it - it's been pummeling my face for the last 90 mins... in a good way.
when kab, dtr AND K.stein are into something... time to investigate! :D
Time for BertStock 13. Everybody bring your pedals! ;D
Can't wait to hear what you think of it Sheep. One thing I'll say that might matter to some, is that the Red has gain no matter what. With the gain all the way down, it's off. But as soon as you turn it up some it has gain. Not "hot clean" or "edge" or even normal bluesy tones. It's gain. From what I hear, but Blue is all over that range up to "classic rock" or so gain. You should really dig it unless it doesn't have enough gain for what you want it for. Waiting to hear.
I'd be interested to hear how the red stacks up against a seventh heaven... the seventh heaven takes the bogner ecstasy and literally copies it exactly, replacing the tubes with jfets. I believe the bogner red is doing the same thing, though the actual jfets and their biasing resistors are hidden in goop. The only real difference I see is the charge pump which pushes the bogner red circuit up to 27 volts... Some preliminary circuit analysis confirms that the bogner pedal is done the same way. However no one's traced the switches yet, there could be something subtle in those, or it could be changing bias points on the jfets which would be more complicated. I'm going to give it a try because really, I'm not buying anything that costs $300 anytime soon, but I'll gladly throw $45 and a few hours at it. I have yet to verify how similar they are but I'm interested to compare when I get one finished.
Okay, found one on ebay for $240 shipped and bought it. It will take about a week to get here, but I'll still have clips up before DTR...
charger — Mar 07, 2013Okay, found one on ebay for $240 shipped and bought it. It will take about a week to get here, but I'll still have clips up before DTR...
Right. Take advantage of the low-hanging fruit. ::)
Nice! Bogner pedals everywhere, lol! Told yooze. It really, truly is like adding a new amp to your stable, or at the very least, adding another channel to your fav amp.
Congrats to everyone who picked one up. :)
charger — Mar 07, 2013Okay, found one on ebay for $240 shipped and bought it. It will take about a week to get here, but I'll still have clips up before DTR...
Two things.
1. I can't you believe YOU paid that kind of money for a pedal. I'm floored.
2. The dig at DTR, though true, made me laugh out loud. Thanks!
Glad i can contribute something to the forum
DreamTheaterRules — Mar 08, 2013Glad i can contribute something to the forum
Well Howie, without Mark and Randy here anymore, we have to have SOMEONE to pick on! :D
(Hooky's too easy. ;) )
So....
Anyone wanna buy a rockmaster?
:D
P.S. I'm serious...
I'm having a significant issue with my bogner blue pedal.
it's making me think I need the other ones too.
the whole argument about "something I already have" tonally is out the window, I could use the uber pedal alongside the uber for dual tracking... red for lead flavors. FRUCK
damnit reinhold!
still cheaper than a goldfinger, I guess. lol.
LOL ^^^ I've been pondering the same thing for weeks (since the red purchase). I want the blue and am in need of some "talk me out of it" therapy.
LOL! I already know I am getting the other 2. It's just a matter of when...
Talk about a product that has bounced in and out of favor (Rockmaster). I got mine for $110 shipped. Sold it for $175 plus shipping 2 years later, and at that time it was a good deal. Every time I've looked lately, they've been that or more.
I think it's a really good piece of gear. I wouldn't have sold mine but needed money for my first Egnater. (Rebel 20)
yeah, I think I'm in that boat too... just a matter of when.
let the rationalizations begin!!
oh well, I haven't bought an amp for about 7 years now...
I really enjoy playing guitar, I don't spend much on other entertainment at all...
it's not so much that I need it... but why punish myself?
a new amp channel for $300? that's cheap!
...
Where I'm nervous about spending more money is on how similar the blue and red could be (?). I mean I see many dudes buying both so that screams they're totally different. But I don't now, the red pedal of course does killer lead tones but I've also found some nice old skool crunch tones there as well. The opening rhythm riff in the clip I posted a couple weeks back is using the 100 voicing with no boost, the lead is the 20th + boost. I'm guessing the blue just has a totally different voicing. If it's a plexi vibe I'd prolly pass, as my main amp essentially is a modded plexi and has a nice plexi mode. Suppose I could always visit the store and hear for myself. Then again, that might not be wi$e.
I'm actually thinking the Uber and done. But I haven't tried the Blue. I just got the Barber Gain changer which for $129 (I paid less) is a fantastic lower gain OD with more gain available as well. I have to say though, right now I'm so impressed with the Red I'm thinking either Uber or Blue and possible both... and putting the Mini Rec on the back burner again til I have tried both. The Red is impressing me that much.
I have some GREAT OD pedals that might get lost in this shuffle. Pedals I thought I'd never get rid of or maybe keep, but take off the board. Yeah, it's almost a grand with of PEDALS, but my Tweaker and the 3 Bogner pedals could do just about anything! Throw in a comp (Tone Press), a delay (TC Flashback) a chorus/vib or other to taste (I currently have the Fulltone Choral Flanger and Mini Deja Vibe and am looking at the TC Dreamscape), and maybe a verb pedal, and you should be able to cover about any tone you could ever want. Oh, I have a Fulltone Clyde Deluxe also.
I think I need a second pedal board! ;D
I think the blue would be the light OD through to crunch pedal. it sounds sort of high gain when maxed out but it's not a super saturated gain... more of a power tube instead of preamp kinda thing.
In fact, the blue might make an interesting "clean channel" to run a red into... or the other way around... hmm, stacking. add that to the rationalization list!
Yeah, the Blue has FB's name ALL over it! Be the ball Danny!
I don't feel bad about paying $240 for it, as I can probably resell it for that. As long as these things don't start catching fire, I think they have a couple of years of resale in them. But I'm mainly interested in trying to figure out what's going on in there, and seeing if I can adapt something open source, like the 7th heaven, to sound close enough to this. I'd much rather build something custom for $50 if I can... I'm pretty meh on the other bogner pedals. I like the sounds sheep's getting out of the blue but I've listened to a lot of other clips of it that didn't impress me... which wouldn't be the first time I heard sheep make something sound better than most other people I've heard use it. And the uber isn't an amp I lust after... I love the Ecstasy and Shiva. I like some mids... If there was a Shiva pedal I'd be tempted.
I read a rumor somewhere that they might be doing a Shiva pedal - I DID hear their guy in a NAMM video say something about new pedals coming this year... but not specific, he mentioned it in passing.
Interesting... from the tracings of the ecstasy red pedal I've seen, the EQ is the weak point of this pedal... instead of using the actual Ecstasy eq stack, it's using a near identical clone of the Marshall Guvnor tone stack. There might be a reason for this... maybe it gave them a good base and then they use the switches to pull in the changes to the eq stack for each model or something... though the Guvnor tone stack is not really similar to the xtc. Anyway, I'm considering revoicing mine (when it comes) to Ecstasy specs...
Updated mix here with the red xtc. This time I'm trying it in front of my main amp on its plexi/pentode setting (big cleans, no breakup). The pedal has sounded good to me through each amp I've personally sampled it with but one (mini Reco) and I've had have a hard time picking a fave because they were all so similar in the end with the Bogner handling the majority of the tone. Anyway, I think today i like this one best and may just roll with this now, lol. Sorry, same WIP track - which I will finish, once I make up my mind (so don't tell me there's something nasty wrong with this one, will ya ;D).
edit: I think we've set a site record - don't recall ever seeing this many clips being posted by lots of people at one time.
Bogner pedal > amp on the left channel, just the amp on the right, Bogner again for the lead. Different guitars for everything. Mic'ing a blackback with a 57 and e906.
Bogner Test Clip / Save As
That just sounds killer. Great blending as well. :)
Very cool. Thank you, thank you. And with that I'm done fussing, lol...that is IT. Time to play and have fun. Gonna make a vid for this eventual tune too (I have too much free time these days sadly).
Free time is a blessing, use it wisely! ;)
that's so up front and aggressive... very nice!!