25 posts
On The Rebel 20, I am definitely interested in pulling the trigger on another amp soon.
My two choices are the Bogner Alchemist at $1099, or the Rebel 20 at $599. I like the channel switching option on the Alchemist plus the boost features and maybe the on board Verb and efx. maybe just my pedals.
For the Rebel 20 I would use my pedal board. Putting the distortions up front, and the Verb in the loop.
The Bogner would need nothing but a speaker cab or 2 which I have several, but the rebel would need me to carry the pedal board and the speaker cab or 2. I don't mind spending the extra $500 on the Alchemist, but I surely would like a 20 watter which is so easy to carry.
Lemme know.
Holy shit, desertblues, we are thinking alike, I spent the better part of my spare time the last couple of days doing as much homework as I could on the exact same two amps. I'm also just th_is close to pulling the trigger on a Rebel as well, but now I've become a least a little curious about the Alchemist head ($950 at GC), besides being butt ugly and made in China (so is the Rebel I believe), are they any good and all that ($950ish can go a loooong way in the used world)...they seem to be getting mixed word at best, where the Rebel is overwhelmingly strong, but like anything I guess, ya gotta sample it yerself. I've tried the Rebel already and am going back this weekend to make sure I will still like it, my GC has plenty in stock, but I didn't know/ask about the Alchemist last time, will spin it if they have it as well.
I'm EXTREMELY happy with my recorded lead tone right now, never been better, but the problem is, now that I've got things dialed in, I'm basically sitting on a 'one trick pony' setup, so other than swaping guitars, single coil vs hum, effects, etc, I'm really limited, and the idea of moving along writing/recording tunes with that one decent similar tone bugs me, I really want a second *studio/recording only* head that is different and will compliment my current sound so tunes can be more varried and so on. I know I'd need my little Bad Monkey to clean-boost the Rebel for solos, that much was clear, its not a mondo lead machine as is, as the case is with my crunch channeled 6505+, but I THINK that will give me a different nice lead tone, more vintage-y, as well some 'breaking up' and cleans. I'd run it through my 4x12 with 2 v30's (and 2 stock Sheffields that are not even hooked up).
So my question for Howie is, have you slapped one of your jizillion pedals in front of the Rebel yet? Results? Either way, now I'm thinking I will just take my pedal in with me this weekend to be safe, lol!
Pffft, GAS, only one way to relieve it...
I'm still really digging the amp. It's surprising how versatile it is. I can get all kinds of tones between using the greenback or Governor, the tube blend, the gain.... it really can do a lot and sounds very good at all of it.
Sch... I mean, Kabala, let's see..... I have a grand total of 4 OD/Distortion pedals on my board now. :o Between those, and the others I have and or have had since I got the Rebel, I haven't found one yet that it didn't like. If LOVES the OCD. It LOVES the Blues Pro as a solo boost pedal or otherwise. It LOVES the Timmy. Heck it loves the Brown Sound In A Box II, the Tube Zone, The 200lbs.... It takes pedals VERY well.
If either of you is interested in spending around a G, then perhaps you'd want to wait for the Renegade. It will be selectable and blendable power tubes but with 6L6 and EL34, two channel, with verb. 40-50 watts. Should be KILLER and it will be about the same price as the Alchemist. Around $1,000-$1,100. I asked Bruce right before Christmas and he said it should be out by February.
Thanks Howie now I am adding the Renegade to the mix.I like the sound of the thing I did watch a video on it
http://www.premierguitar.com/Video/20081030/417/LA_Amp_Show_Egnater_Amplification_Renegade_50.aspx
yep, that's the vid I saw. And the Renegade will be available in 2x12 Combo and head versions.
If I didn't want to build a a Marshall 18 watt plexi clone SO badly, the Renegade would be on my short list, along with the Dr. Z Maz Jr. and the Budda Superdrive 18. I want TONE, not a bunch of watts. My High Octane is an amazingly good sounding amp, clean or way dirty. The tone stack is designed for purity, not wide range (ala a Plexi). But that amp sounds so good I'd LOVE to build an amp with it's pre and a 2xEL34 power section. That would absolutely KILL.
DreamTheaterRules — Jan 17, 2009yep, that's the vid I saw. And the Renegade will be available in 2x12 Combo and head versions.
If I didn't want to build a a Marshall 18 watt plexi clone SO badly, the Renegade would be on my short list, along with the Dr. Z Maz Jr. and the Budda Superdrive 18. I want TONE, not a bunch of watts. My High Octane is an amazingly good sounding amp, clean or way dirty. The tone stack is designed for purity, not wide range (ala a Plexi). But that amp sounds so good I'd LOVE to build an amp with it's pre and a 2xEL34 power section. That would absolutely KILL.
My kiddo had an 18 watt Marshall clone built a few years back and he loves it. I am still thinking 40-50 watt range because that would work in any band / jam situation except for a Metal Monster band (And I don't play metal obviously). Backed up by my HRD and stomps as a backup unit the Renegade or Alchemist will be perfect because neither needs stomps (I only use distortions and reverb). So I could carry the head and 2, 1-12 cabs, and my guitar on a single run into a jam/gig with a decent hand truck, no stomps needed.
That's a nice sounding amp... Demo boy needs some help tho...
Renegade 50 from NAMM 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxJt0VvIiHc This is what I am thinking.
That's really nice... I wish they had dinked with the tube blend knob more but sounds like a nice tight amp.
oh and welcome Kabala... :)
Paul, the tube blend knob is very interesting. The common advice at TGP was, when you first get one, leave it in the middle while you dial up sounds at first, then mess with it later. That made sense too me and is how I pretty much did things.
Once I started with a certain gain level, going for a certain sound, I quickly found out how useful the blend is. As of now, (depending on guitar, etc) in general, I prefer the 6V6's for cleanest tones, and heaviest tones, and the EL84s for most everything in between. But it is SO cool be able to dial between them. Honestly, the middle setting (50/50 blend) would make for a great amp, but you can go anywhere from there to only one type or the other and the knob or any blend ratio you want. I've been so happy with the amp so far, that I haven't even messed with Pre tubes, but the word is that a Tung Sol in V1 takes the the tone up a notch no matter what kind of tone you are dialing in. I'll try that before long...
DreamTheaterRules — Jan 16, 2009I have a grand total of 4 OD/Distortion pedals on my board now. If either of you is interested in spending around a G, then perhaps you'd want to wait for the Renegade. It will be selectable and blendable power tubes but with 6L6 and EL34, two channel, with verb. 40-50 watts. Should be KILLER and it will be about the same price as the Alchemist. Around $1,000-$1,100. I asked Bruce right before Christmas and he said it should be out by February.
Thanks for the pedal info (btw, jizillion is slang for FOUR ;)), thats good to know, not every amp line handles the trendy "boost up front" thing equally well.
Glad to hear that Renegade is coming in a HEAD form as well, I'd prefer that, and Mr. Nater didn't mention that until just at the end of that one vid, whew! Its not the added wattage of that vs the Rebel, I mean for bedroom wankers and recordings, medium volume will suffice, its the TONE that matters, but I'm gonna TRY and resist the Rebel and hang on for a couple more weeks I guess and see if the Renegade starts to surface - a couple of those guys mentioned its voiced slightly more aggressive, sweet!
I don't know exactly what they set out to mimmick (jcm800?), if anything, but man I just like the tonality of their stuff. They'll be around for a while methinks, not just a 'flava of the year' thing.
Gonna be tuff to resist that Rebel though, that 10% off GC coupon is on fire, lol. =)
Thanks, Paul!
I still miss my custom Egnater... Bruce definitely makes some quality gear! :( :-/
Kabala,
I knew that about the "jizillion being the new four" :D :D In fact, I am a BIG fan of the "boost up front." I always wondered why so many people liked Tube Screamers with the level up/ gain down settings. Yeah, it's a boost, but one with bass and treble rolled off. I've quietly suggested those people try either a full range boost (and adjusting the amps tone controls to taste) or something like the Timmy which has bass and treble rolloff pots, or even the Blues Pro which has much more meat to the tone and a GREAT tone control. Either that, or a custom made Screamer type pedal. I can build a screamer with any amount of bass or treble rolloff you want, and select the frequencies that that happens during the build. Or even socket a few parts so you can experiment. Or, you can just use an EQ pedal, as Dar has always recommended, if you just want "clean boost and ability to dial the EQ."
This brings up another VERY cool feature on the Egnator amps. Bruce always seems to include "bright" and "tight" controls. Those two tiny switches are very powerful!!! MANY times making the difference between good, and great tone.
Too bad blondes don't have "bright" and "tight" controls as well... ;)
DreamTheaterRules — Jan 17, 2009Paul, the tube blend knob is very interesting. The common advice at TGP was, when you first get one, leave it in the middle while you dial up sounds at first, then mess with it later. That made sense too me and is how I pretty much did things.
Once I started with a certain gain level, going for a certain sound, I quickly found out how useful the blend is. As of now, (depending on guitar, etc) in general, I prefer the 6V6's for cleanest tones, and heaviest tones, and the EL84s for most everything in between. But it is SO cool be able to dial between them. Honestly, the middle setting (50/50 blend) would make for a great amp, but you can go anywhere from there to only one type or the other and the knob or any blend ratio you want. I've been so happy with the amp so far, that I haven't even messed with Pre tubes, but the word is that a Tung Sol in V1 takes the the tone up a notch no matter what kind of tone you are dialing in. I'll try that before long...
The new Tung Sol tubes are great. I have a complete set in the Roadster and the cleans are scrumptious (and the distortion ain't to bad either ;) ). I use a Gold-Plated/Hi-Gain in V1, Hi-Gain in V2 & V3, regulars in V4 & V5, and balanced triode in V6. With those in the Pre and JJ6l6 in the power the sound is sooooooooooo much better than stock.
DreamTheaterRules — Jan 16, 2009
I asked Bruce right before Christmas and he said it should be out by February.
Even though I'm a little skiddish about jumping on something so new, where it hasn't already established itself reliability wise, especially since there was at least
some issue talk early on with the Rebel, but man, I'm really gassy now after watching that Renegade 50 clip! It sounds like it might even be a 'boost free' rascal! In that vid he mentioned the combo was due around April - I'm an impatient SOB, I sure hope it was the head he was referring to when he told you something about Feb.
EDIT: Bah, I went ahead and emailed them to ask if they have a guesstimate on a street date for the head (none of these newer items are updated on their site, not the Rebel 30, the Renegade, nothing). Something tells me I WILL get a response (though I have a hunch it'll be: "they're all coming the same as the combo, April at the earliest").
Bruce's amps pretty much always sound great...my buddy has a Mod 50 that's killer.
I was more surprised at how wonderful that reverb sounded on the video...wow.
I definitely am suffering some Renegade GAS, too...although the idea of having the Rebel in a 1x12" combo is quite appealing to me.
Tripper
Tripper — Jan 19, 2009I definitely am suffering some Renegade GAS, too...although the idea of having the Rebel in a 1x12" combo is quite appealing to me.Tripper
Yeah I like the looks of the Rebel 30 as they call it (the new combo) But I would rather have a head/cab rather than a combo because of tube rattle. I am thinking the Renegade 50 is for me because it would play any venue I am likely to show up at. Plus it will do for home use on the low power setting.
Where did you hear about reliability issues with the early Rebel 20s??? Guys at TGP were buying them left and right, and other than a few guys saying they didn't sound good and they returned them, I never saw any real complaints about a reliability issue.
If you don't get a pretty quick answer to your question about the Rebel 30, let me know and I'll ask Bruce. He hangs out at TGP a lot since these amps came out and has been real good about answering questions pretty quickly most of the time. (Except when he's gone for shows or whatever).
Actually, I was trying to make two points there, my nervousness to buy something (read: pricey) with no real track record to look at regarding reliability (totally understandable IMO, and again though, that can really be said about any new electronic gizmo), and that I also saw some talk about earlier "issues", but I'm sure thats prolly been ironed out. Can't recall where I read that though, might've been some partially unhappy owners chimming and dropping comments on the various Utube vids, saw several guys whinning about LOOP problems and needing to contact Egnater for a fix/workaround, etc. But that said, you're right, the more you read, the more it becomes clear there are far more satisfied customers by the week vs fails, etc. I hope to add my name to the satisfied list soon. (=
ah, the "loop problem." Basically very few effects cause the loop problem. At TGP, they quickly narrowed it down to a few effects and even a few BRANDS. Egnator came out with a quick mod to fix it for current owners, and changed production to make it on all future models.
Basically, it had to do with levels, which is something MOST amps have to some degree. You have 5000 pedals and rack effects out there, all putting out somewhat different output impedance. Nothing can work OPTIMALLY with all of them. And, you have us guitarists putting 2,3,4 of these back to back in an effects loop, and then complaining if it doesn't work.
There are several people here who I've tried to help with these type issues in the last few years. And I'm no expert, just saying. As a rule, ANY time you add effects in the loop, you should add them one at a time and listen to the effect. LOTS of things can suck tone in the loop, even if you have the sweet adjustable send and return pots (ala Rivera and others).
Some loops can be designed to sound the best, but that limits a bunch of mismatched effects in them, and some are more generic and handle that better but don't sound as good.
The purest amps have the least possible "tone suckers." That includes tone stacks, the design of the loop etc. Or, you can go boutique, where they have extravagant ways of making everything work and still sound good.
Many people think the "18 watt" Marshall is the best sounding Marshall ever, and the best sounding version is the one that doesn't even have a tone stack. Purest signal path, best tone, blah blah...
Oxygen-free amps make the best tone... ;) ::)
Oh yeah, I know about loops and tone issues, was one of the reasons I jumped on the 6505+ head when I found it vs saving a few bucks to nab an earlier model (the "+" = additional tube for the loop)...but its still good news to hear they altered something for all future models. I'm sold, biggest problem for me is minor - restraining myself until the new stuff (Ren50 head) hits the streets, lol.
Speaking of heads, effects and loops (prolly should not jack this thread for this..), but how in the world do all these multiple amp-head owners wire the shit up where the heads can use the same effects through their respective loops (not a "dual head running at the same time" thing), I mean I want the best of both worlds for recording - two heads, each/either tapping the same (few) effect units I have (a multi, a BBE max, a Hush, etc)? I like the idea of 'set up and forget', not needing to have 2 entirely different rigs perse, just the two heads sharing the one set of looped toys, so say *whichever* head you decide to fire up, it can have some noise reduc from a hush W/O having to unjack it from the other heads loop and pop it in that one? Or is that impossible?
it's possible. They have some pretty elaborate switching boxes these days. I just saw one today... I'll try to find it and post a link.
But, if you are just talking 2 amps, and one set of "loop" effects, that's not to hard.