25 posts
Right now the HRD has the stock speaker on board, which I never use. I hate the sound of that speaker, so I am thinking what kind of speaker would do. I have some EVM12L's in extension cabs but they have way too much bottom end to put into the HRD because the speakers and the power tubes are so close. (Deep cone on EVM12L's) I put one in there when I first got the amp and it sounded great, but it rattled the heck out of the tubes which is a no no for me. I Have the EVM 12 L's in open back extension cabs, which I would use for a gig, but I would like something lighter with a shallow cone to take to jams, etc. At the house I have the amp plugged into the EVM12L but to take it out with extension cabs is a lot of work for my old bones.
Any suggestions? It would need at least a 75 or hundred watt speaker, although the amp is rated at 40 watts it is sure loud as can be for a 2-6L6 power tube amp. I see there is 2 Celestions that fit the bill, Celestion G12T 'Hot 100' Guitar Speaker and Celestion G12T-75 12" Speaker Any opinions on these?
Not sure why you think you need 75 or 100's in a 40 watt amp, usually you can use as low as a 25 watter just fine (which definitely gives you more options). Therefore you can consider G12M Greenbacks (25w), G12H30s (30w) or Vintage 30's (30w). Heck, I was told I'd be fine with my Alnico Blue (15w) through my 50w amps, but I have no need to crank the amp.
Why not give Dave at Avatar Speakers a call? He's got lots of good information and connections with Celestion you can probably exploit. One of his Hellatone's (aged Celestions) might be just the ticket.
http://www.avatarspeakers.com/
Weber 12" Silver Bell. It's in the British series. https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/
One of my friends has a Blues Junior with a 10" Silver Ten (the 10" version) and that speaker sounds unreal. The amp sounds more expensive than it is.
The speaker is warm with plenty of overtones, clear, and takes pedals really well.
They may be $199, but it's not as expensive as other makers Alnicos (Celestion Blues/Golds, Tonetubby, etc).
CraigBert — Jan 26, 2009Not sure why you think you need 75 or 100's in a 40 watt amp, usually you can use as low as a 25 watter just fine (which definitely gives you more options). Therefore you can consider G12M Greenbacks (25w), G12H30s (30w) or Vintage 30's (30w). Heck, I was told I'd be fine with my Alnico Blue (15w) through my 50w amps, but I have no need to crank the amp.
Why not give Dave at Avatar Speakers a call? He's got lots of good information and connections with Celestion you can probably exploit. One of his Hellatone's (aged Celestions) might be just the ticket.
http://www.avatarspeakers.com/
He might want something in a higher rating depending on how much clean headroom he wants (less early cone breakup).
DBM,
Listen to both, with this as an add... Eminence takes most of the popular Celestion speakers and "clones" them while adding some power handling ability. Example, I'm currently testing my Greenback vs and Emi Private Jack. The Eminence is claimed to have more lower mids, and it does. But otherwise, it really SOUNDS like a Greenback. It can also handle double the power (25 vs 50w). So far, I'd say, if you prefer more "girth" to your tone and want a Greenback, the Emi is a CLEAR choice. But also, if you need more power handling. If you prefer a "brighter" tone, the Celestion might be your choice, even though it doesn't have more treble, just less lower mids, making it sound a bit brighter.
I have also compared a V30 vs the Governor. Again, Emi says it handles more power, but also has lightly less of the upper mid peak. It SOUNDS like a V30 but many describe it as "less spikey" in the upper mids.
In both cases, informal polls at TGP had both Emis as the winners.
That said, I haven't tried the Webers but I have read plenty. They are great speakers, across the board. So I would (and will myself) say to try them. But this is where it gets too, "what do you want?" I've been swap/trade/selling speakers, the way I do OD pedals. They are THE final item in your tone. And one of the most important!!!
So, if you want sweet highs, clear sweet tone, and more power handling, I'd suggest either the Emi Red Fang (which I am getting any day now) or one of the Webers. I'll let you know how I like the Red Fang, but everything I've read said it's VERY close to the coveted Celestion Blue Alnico, but it also handles twice as much power.
One more thing. In the two direct comparisons I've done so far, the fact that the Emi could handle twice the power, didn't make it break up later, it just made it be "that sound" and be able to handle the extra watts.
Also, throw into the mix the Wizard. This is the G12H copy. I have one, and boy does it sound good. I've heard G12H speakers but not got to A/B them with the same amp as I have the others. Emi describes this as being a cross between a V30 and a Greenback. So yeah, it really is good!
I really think the Webers might be even better, but I haven't tried them. Their reputation vs price is VERY high though.
Lots to think about there folks.
Thanks, off to the Eminence and Weber sites to do some poking around.
I need to amend the statement above. When I said that about clear sweet tone and check out the Red Fang or the Weber, I should have said "or the alnico Webers." The Alnico speakers have a special sweetness to them. A chime and sweetness in the mids and treble, that makes them special (from what I've heard of them so far). There's a reason people pay well over $200 for ONE Celestion Blue. The Red Fang and Weber alinico's offer a more affordable glimpse of that magic.
You also have a lot of different options with the Webers that you don't get with a lot of makers. They can take a given speaker (like the Silver Bell), offer it in different wattage ratings (from 25-100 watts) different ohms ratings, different dopages (no, they don't give the speakers weed), and the option of either Alnico or Ceramic.
I'll second Howie the the Red Fangs are really good speakers. The ones that come loaded in the Genz Benz Black Pearl sound really good. On the other hand, my buddy who has a Black Pearl swapped out the Red Fang for a Silver Bell. I can't remember what he said about the comparison, but I know he's a tone freak (for whatever that's worth). ;)
Well I e-mailed off to Weber and Eminence with what I want from a speaker. We shall see what the return e-mail says.
Interesting that Craig rates a V30 at 30 watts but the Torres site I qouted in my other post rates a V30 at 60 watts????
http://www.torresamps.com/speakers.htmThis page has descriptions of each speaker Torres offer so it might help.
If I go for the Torres amp route I'll be having a V30 and a Greenback in my 2x12 cab (the amp will be built as a head) on the advice of the tech I spoke to today. As the amp is basically a beefed up 'Blues Deluxe' basis, maybe thats the way to head. My musical taste is for classic blues sound with a bit more 'balls'. (say verging on smooth classic rock tones).
Hope this helps Harv.
Spud
I think Craig is smoking crack. :D Vintage 30's are rated at 60W according to Celestions website. Now the others he's talking are 30w.
Sorry! I sit corrected. I did know it, I just spaced. The Vintage 30's ARE 60w, I have mine paired with G12H30's (which ARE 30w). :)
(with ARE 30w). Smiley
wow, you DO have him flustered! ;D
Did not hear back from Weber, but I did hear back from eminence, I did not like the 5k peak in the speaker they suggested. I want just the opposite, the one they suggested said better highs and less mids. I want better mids and less highs.
They suggested this one. http://www.eminence.com/guitar_speaker_detail.asp?model=TONKERLITE&speaker_size=12&SUB_CAT_ID=4
I think something more like this http://www.eminence.com/guitar_speaker_detail.asp?model=COMMONWEALTH12&speaker_size=12&SUB_CAT_ID=4
But download the PDF's for both and see what I mean, they have a diagram of the frequencies.
DBM,
I can't tell you which one to pick simply because your idea of tone and mine are just too hard to put into words.
I know for me....what I like is a LOUD speaker that doesn't really break up. I want the amp to get me my distortion....YMMV.
I played Greenbacks for years and was never really satisfied. The speaker breaks up in those...and at the time I was rockin' those I didn't know enough about this topic to know that.
Fast forward many years and I knew what I wanted. I first went with a mix of a Eminence V128 -like a V30- (legend series not the new stuff) and a Greenback (also an Eminence legend series) This was really good and gave me the option to mic up different speakers for different sounds. However over all.....that Greenback was still causing my ears issues.
So I kept the V30 and sold the Greenback. I got an Eminence Tonespotter. I LOVE that mixed with the V30. Loud. Clear. Punchy. To me it handles the bass really well without making the bass bassier if that makes sense. I have the mids in a SWEET spot now and the high do not get ice picky even if I turn the treble and presence all teh way up and roll the bass and mids all the way down whilst playing with a strat.
I think the Tone spotter is a super speaker. When I mic up, thats the one that gets the mic.
I understand your need for a 75 or 100 watt speaker for your amp....I THINK that Tonespotter is 75 watts and the Legend V128 is 120 watts.....and I'm just pushing a 50 watt amp.
FB Thanks for that detailed response. Tone is of course subjective, the Tonespotter http://www.eminence.com/pdf/tonespotter.pdf is one cool looking speaker.
I also do not like speaker distortion, I prefer preamp and power amp distortion, with the speakers giving me a clear signal of what the amp is doing. That is why I like the EVM12L's so much.
Now that I think about it maybe the HRD stock speaker can not handle the extra highs of the distortions, and maybe the speaker is distorting the highs, but the fizz it creates turns me way off. I actually try it every few weeks just to see if I was mistaken. But no I was pretty right on every time I try it. I can get the thing to sound good if I turn the trebles most of the way down, and the presence all the way off. But the clean channel then sound like mud, ugly mud too.
That is why I am looking at the Egnater Renegade 50 head, it has separate tone controls for the two channels.
Of course if I was playing out I would hook the HRD to both EVM12L's in extension cabs and my pedal board, but for a jam or visit with other musicians, just the amp by itself would be the ticket, (less to hump up and down steps).
I just pulled the trigger on the items below had to add the live wire thing to get free shipping but I need it anyways for the valve jr so I can put the switch blade which has 2 wires coming out of it into separate effects units and the Valve jr head only has one input.
Eminence The Tonespotter 12" Guitar Speaker
1 660069 $79.99 $79.99
Live Wire 1/4"(M)-Dual 1/4"(F) Y Cable 6
Inches
1 331080 104 $6.49 $6.49
Weber Speakers Beam Blocker High Frequency
Diffuser 12 Inch 4 Inch Dome
1 660007 076 099 $17.99 $17.99
And while I was at it I ordered a new set of anti rattle hot power tubes for my HRD I already have a set of high gain gold pin preamp tubes for that. Plus while I was talking to Bobbo I got several extra high gain 12 AX 7's for my Valve Jr head
You're a good man for the economy DBM! Buy! Buy! Buy! ;) ;D
Have you had a beam blocker before? I'm curious to what you (or anyone else here) thinks about those. I've never heard one in use.
If you remember Craig, I built my own Beam Blockers for the Boogie a couple of years ago (back in the WH days). I like them for live use as they do what they say and cause the frequencies to mix rather than having the highs come straight out the center of the speaker.
One downside is that you cannot use the SM57 "nipple ring" method of mic placement as the center of the blocker is then in the way.
One piece of advise Harv, if you mic your amp to record, set the mic about 4" off the grille at about a 45 degree angle and about 2" outside the edge of the Beam Blocker and then tweek from there.
It took me ages to work out why I got a really dead sound using the accepted methods and the reason was the blocker(s). Once you get your head round this, they are more than worth the money (or in my case, effort). Especially in smaller rooms/venues.
desertbluesman — Jan 28, 2009And while I was at it I ordered a new set of anti rattle hot power tubes for my HRD I already have a set of high gain gold pin preamp tubes for that. Plus while I was talking to Bobbo I got several extra high gain 12 AX 7's for my Valve Jr head
I'll just throw this out at you and you do what you want with it....because in your post above you sound like you actually go for the same thing I go for when doing the tone thing-amps and tubes over speakers for distortion.
I got talking to Bob at Eurotubes and was explaining to him that I want LOUD and CLEAR....not gain and FIZZ. He recommended getting colder tubes in the power amp. Now not all dudes are into that. Some guys like that gain....because if we are honest it covers up how much we suck! HAHAHAHA
I like to hear my power tubes over my pre-amp tubes. So what I got into is colder power tubes AND toning down the pre-amp tubes. I have a Gold pin Electro harmonic 12AX7.....and it's the tits! And a 5751 JAN Spec tube in there two. What this does is not give me the fizz trebly gain shit....and allows me to crank that little amp up and be LOUD and CLEAR.
I generally set my master volume around 3....and I'm really loud. Everything is clear and not muddy. No mush or fizz....and all I got is a shitty Classic 50.
Did Matt really type all that? Not a single "fuck" in the entire post! :o ;D
CraigBert — Jan 28, 2009Have you had a beam blocker before? I'm curious to what you (or anyone else here) thinks about those. I've never heard one in use.
Never so I want to try one. I will post the results in a review.
Fenderbender — Jan 28, 2009I got talking to Bob at Eurotubes and was explaining to him that I want LOUD and CLEAR....not gain and FIZZ. He recommended getting colder tubes in the power amp.
If it gets too fizzy I can set the BIAS down on the power tubes. The one thing I do like about hotter power tubes is the nice overtones the heat (either hotter tubes or hotter BIAS) gives to the sound. I don't use the master volume on the HRD as I only use the clean channel, and that channel only has a single volume control.
spud — Jan 28, 2009One piece of advise Harv, if you mic your amp to record,
Thanks for the advice but I will mike up an extension cab if I record the HRD. If I ever get involved in live work and need to mike up the HRD I will also use extension cabs for that as well. I have 2 1-12 open back cabs with EVM12L's in them. I usually record direct with my stomps in front of the Tonelab tabletop. It works very well.