The Watering Hole

http://soundcloud.com/temper59/kemper-profiling-amp-foxglove

Sounds good.  All instruments sit together in the mix really well.

Nice tones all. Plus your friend plays very well........

laptop speakers disclosure, but this sounds good.

The interesting part was how easy it was to get the tones we used.
I scrolled through some profiles while Peter played, about a 1/4 through the Profiles I came to a JCM800 clean profile, Peter said yes I like that but increase the gain a little, I did, that became the Strat rhythm tone.
I said, wait let's check out a few other profiles first, he said no that one is fine.
For the lead we used the same JCM800 profile but added the KPA tube screamer.

Then we decided lets go for something heavier for the last part of the song.
I scrolled again, almost immediately I came across the Mesa Roadking Modern 4 profile, Peter that sounds great, just turn the Presence down a touch.
Check the photo on the SC clip, you'll see Roadking Modern 4 on the screen, and the Presence knob, the last one on the right, turned down from 12 o'clock to about 10 o'clock, that's it, that's all I changed on the stock profile.

So at the end of it all Peter only checked out a few profiles, and chose those two to do the song.
Seriously, we could have used any of a few dozen others to do the same song song, they would have sounded as good, maybe better, and different to the end result on this clip.

This thing is ready to go out the box, so many profiles are ready to record with practically no tweaking.

I like Peter's lead playing.  

Honestly I'm not hearing anything I haven't heard from other modelers in this clip.  Kinda reminds me of a Tonelab!

And before you tell me it's all Soundcloud messing with the tone--you know you can attach the original here, right?

I listened again and it does sound really good

I like it.

Yup.  Sounds damn good.

I had to give this a listen again because everyone was so positive, and I thought maybe I was just totally on crack.

This still sounds somewhat generically modeled to me.  I listened on the Mackies too, just to be sure... what are you guys hearing in this that you haven't heard in other modelers?

I don't think anyone here is saying they are hearing anything here they haven't heard in other modellers.  Personally I am just saying it sounds good, which it does.

Ahh, ok.

I'd still take real amps over this but I'm biased... it sounds good, it just doesn't have the wow factor I was expecting...

In the higher gain section towards the end, it does sound nice but is also missing some of the snarl from the real thing IMO (and I owned a pretty killer 800 for roughly a year and recorded it enough to know what I loved about it)...its not as cutting for some reason and missing some of the chew. It sounds a notch above a good modeler but also a notch below the real mccoy in this example (the gainy portion of the jam that is). 0.2

Things is.
When you're doing a recording like this, you're not thinking about pleasing a few thousand different guys with different tone tastes on the internet, if you were you'd have to do a few dozen different versions/recordings of the same song which would take a few days.
And, you're not spending a few hours going through a profile selection process to establish which profiles would be the cream of the crop for this particular recording.
And, keep in mind this is the first tome Peter's hearing/playing the KPA...it's not like he's had a few months to establish his favourite tones in the unit and how to get/use them...and I'm not about to spend a few hours trying to give Peter a run through the entire unit.

You pick a profile/amp, you press record and get on with it....you don't listen back and say well we could do better let's start again....if you were recording your own album yes you'd do that, why not, you have the time to try out different combinations.
When you're finished you don't listen back and say well that little 10 second section doesn't sound as "tube" like as it could, let's redo that little section and add some zing to the profile/patch in case some dude on the internet wasn't convinced.

When you record something like this and post it as a demo, guys seem to think you've spent a few week giving your 100% effort to create the best possible tone the unit was capable of.
When you spend a year recording your own album and then release it, yes, one would imagine you had the time and spent the time going for the best possible tone you were capable of....but not in a 3 hour studio session inbetween a cappuccino for breakfast and a few hotdogs for lunch.  :)

Kabala — Nov 18, 2011
In the higher gain section towards the end, it does sound nice but is also missing some of the snarl from the real thing IMO (and I owned a pretty killer 800 for roughly a year and recorded it enough to know what I loved about it)...its not as cutting for some reason and missing some of the chew. It sounds a notch above a good modeler but also a notch below the real mccoy in this example (the gainy portion of the jam that is). 0.2

The higher gain section towards the end is a Mesa Roadking Modern channel profile, not a JCM800.

Ahhh, now that makes sense!! I knew something was amiss. Always been more of a Marshally/Brit flavored fan (got nothing against MESA however - just look at what Timmons and many others pull out of them). :)

I still think these things (and of course modelers/software, etc) strong suit is in their clean, twang, warm jazzy and up to crunchity crunch stuff...beyond that I'll always prefer a true, pissed off, loud tube amp for high gain tones...but then I don't host players in a legit studio, tour with a band or sell them either. Good luck with your endevor btw.  8-)

Kabala — Nov 18, 2011
Ahhh, now that makes sense!! I knew something was amiss. Always been more of a Marshally/Brit flavored fan (got nothing against MESA however - just look at what Timmons and many others pull out of them). :)

One of the music stores I hang out in a lot these days plays Andy Timmons CDs all day long.
The guy is a genius, his tone is superb, whatever he plays is just magical...and he can play anything.

I'm also not a Mesa fan.
The other day my buddy who's the Mesa distributor down here demoed the MarkV for me....I sat there scratching my head, maybe I was in a negative mood and my ears weren't functioning properly, but whatever he played sounded nasty and uninspiring...I wasn't impressed at all.
However, the Mesa profiles in the KPA all sound pretty damn good, in their mid scooped kind of way, but I'm with you, give me the snarling Marshall mids any day of the week.

Lance, am I correct in thinking that the Kemper has an effects loop after the distortion and eq etc that then returns to just before the mic/cab profile ?   If so, it would be interesting to try a line feed from a real amp via a load box (Hotplate for example) straight into the effect return so you could use a real amp into the mic/cab emulation.    An expensive way of doing it I know, but it would be an interesting experiment.

Speaking of Andy Timmons,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwFOfjQdPls

I'd kill for that tone!

*Yawn*

"If it sounds good, it IS good!"  ;)

Amen Craig.  Thinking the same when I read some replies above, and in the other KPA threads.  Thinking this...    I think we ALL know by now that we don't all like the same thing, and even those of us who do have a strong preference for Marshall or Mesa or Fender or whatever, DO NOT prefer it the same way.

IMO, the tone above is very good!  It may not be exactly how I would have adjusted the knobs IF I were doing it.  But that IS NOT the point.  It's what Peter wanted, and it sounds very good!  

Kabala, IMO, (and I agree with you) your preference for real amps loud for higher gain sounds, is strongly influenced by the actual speaker.  The one thing they can't model really well (IMO) is how a speaker reacts to being turned up loud.  3 different speakers all react differently.  4x12's in one cab with no or little insulation are strongly influenced by all the waves bouncing around in that cab and pounding the back of the speaker cone.  It changes how the speaker sounds and IS part of rock and roll!   I think they haven't effectively modeled the cone breakup and the mayhem inside the cabs effect on it.  

If you put a high fidelity 12" speaker in an isolated cab made to kill all the vibration like a good stereo speaker should, it would sound more and more different than your guitar speaker, the louder you turn it up.  I have done this and saw how radically different they are.  This is a big part of whats missing with modeling IMO.  But as I've also said, it's getting REALLY close!

I like it.  Say hi to Peter!

CraigBert — Nov 18, 2011*Yawn*

"If it sounds good, it IS good!"  ;)

Bullseye! And if it sounds BETTER (the real thing), it IS even better.  ;D

charger — Nov 17, 2011what are you guys hearing in this that you haven't heard in other modelers?

Nothing, but I do have a Tonelab table top and that thing is 1000% nicer than anything I can get outta the Tonelab. It sounds pretty good to me, heads and shoulders above the Pod XT and on backward, but the Pod HD is as good sounding to me as anything. The modelers of today are sounding as good as miked up amps recorded. I am not sure that the Modelers could stand up to a good tube amp turned up past drummer volume but for recording I think the KPA is as good as anything I have heard from a modeler.

DreamTheaterRules — Nov 18, 2011 The one thing they can't model really well (IMO) is how a speaker reacts to being turned up loud.

Let's put it this way, not even the best mic's through the best pre-amps money can buy "model" that speaker breakup/reaction to it's fullest....after all, when a mic/preamp is in front of a real speaker in the recording process or even live, in a sense the mic is a "modeller", it's trying it's hardest to capture something it never quite does perfectly.

I'll duck for cover here, but, sometimes I prefer the mic'd studio monitor version of an amp to what the cranked amp actually sounds like in the isolation room....talking strictly sound/tone here, not feel.
Same thing 'live', it is possible, to my ears anyway, that the sound coming out the PA is a more pleasant listening experience to what the amp might sound like 2 yards away from my ears on stage.

Having said all of that, that's what Kempers method/algorithm of modelling concentrated on, not to model every aspect of the entire circuit of a particular tube amp (IMO to the detriment of the end product), but to use the mic/preamps to capture the part that matters, the part we've all been complaining about for 15 years...to hear the "air" surrounding that mic/speaker and the wooden thump of the speaker cab.

With previous modellers turning up the volume on studio monitors wasn't a good idea, things got nasty the louder you listened, with the KPA you keep turning up the studio monitor volume because it just sounds so realistic....you're hearing more of the mic/speakers ability than you did in previous modellers, I think that's the main difference...is that difference 50%, no, most probably 20%, but that's a significant enough difference, is it worth $1000, I dunno, I guess if you're rich it's worth it, I know I can't afford to buy a Kemper and neither can Peter right now.

In conclusion, may be better than the rest but it still is not there.

Zonta — Nov 19, 2011In conclusion, may be better than the rest but it still is not there.

You don't think this is 'there'?  :)

http://soundcloud.com/temper59/kemper-profiling-amp-foxglove

Lance — Nov 19, 2011[quote author=Zonta link=1321543861/25#25 date=1321713276]In conclusion, may be better than the rest but it still is not there.

You don't think this is 'there'?  :)

http://soundcloud.com/temper59/kemper-profiling-amp-foxglove



Well Lance first part is better yes but the second hi gain part is obviously missing the realism. It sounds modeled.

Kemper beats all the modelers out there including the Axe FX probably yet I guess it is early to claim it be equal of a cranked Recto, JCM900, Extacy, etc miked in a pro studio.


Don't get me wrong. I said I like it in my previous post and I still think the same way. The tone there is simply much better than the one I can achieve with my SM57 yet when compared to the real deal, it is still missing a bit.

On the other hand, I heard better hi gain solo clips of it from you. I would love to hear those in a mix.

"The Chief Dirty 3" and "The Chief Dirty 4"  clips where it goes hi gain for example. Those could sound very "there" in a mix. Also "Kemper Hi Gain clip - Higher volume" clip 14:00 - 28:21.

Kabala — Nov 18, 2011
Ahhh, now that makes sense!! I knew something was amiss. Always been more of a Marshally/Brit flavored fan (got nothing against MESA however - just look at what Timmons and many others pull out of them). :)

I still think these things (and of course modelers/software, etc) strong suit is in their clean, twang, warm jazzy and up to crunchity crunch stuff...beyond that I'll always prefer a true, pissed off, loud tube amp for high gain tones...but then I don't host players in a legit studio, tour with a band or sell them either. Good luck with your endevor btw.  8-)

I got to play a Mesa Stiletto.  Crunch settings sound like Mesa and Marshall had a love child.  Liked it a lot.  Only exception is the highest gain setting.  Little more Mesa-ish.  

Quick demo of the "dynamics" of the Kemper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tvscgj7_IBE

Here is a page like more than a hundred KPA clips:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=976105


And this is a profile created by someone who owns the unit. It is not a factory profile:

http://soundcloud.com/ericmelvin10/kpa-brunetti-059

It is a Brunetti 059.

Check this also:

http://soundcloud.com/bt-king/tracks



And this is a 27 min clip where he goes through all the rigs in the unit:

http://soundcloud.com/bt-king/changing-rigs-111002

My KPA is now in Cape Town with Robin Gallagher, the boss man at Fender South Africa.
He is without doubt a world class country chicken picker, amazing...but he comes from a backround of rock and blues guitar playing, so he does it all.

I sat with him in the amp room in a store whilst he played a Custom Shop Sparkle Green Reliced Tele...I fell in love with this guitar, wow, what a beaut.
Unfortunately I didn't have the KPA with me at the time otherwise we would have made some clips, and he was about to catch a plane back to Cape Town.
So, he arranged to collect it the next day and now it's with him.
Pity, I didn't get a chance to give him a quick KPA tutorial before he uses the unit, but I'll get hyim up and running over the phone...I look forward to his recordings.

Got to be a world first, the Boss at Fender South Africa & the boss at Tokai South Africa hooking up and working together with the KPA...anyway, I thought it was kind of funny.  :)

Zonta — Nov 25, 2011Here is a page like more than a hundred KPA clips:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=976105


And this is a profile created by someone who owns the unit. It is not a factory profile:

http://soundcloud.com/ericmelvin10/kpa-brunetti-059

It is a Brunetti 059.

Check this also:

http://soundcloud.com/bt-king/tracks



And this is a 27 min clip where he goes through all the rigs in the unit:

http://soundcloud.com/bt-king/changing-rigs-111002

Zonta.
I don't like the way Mats (BT King) mixes his stuff.
For example, here's his latest clip, it's a very cool clip and his backing track is great, but he mixes the guitars too soft for a demo of the guitar tones.
I can hear the guitar tones are good, but his mix is wrong, IMO
http://soundcloud.com/bt-king/up-and-down-111124


There are so many new profiles I don't yet have, I'm not a beta tester so I don't have access to the FTP the bets testers are currently using.
But, the Profile/Rig Exchange website is busy being set up right now, that will be cool.

Obviously the best sounding profiles come from the pro studios, they're using $10,000 worth of mics and pre-amps when they make their profiles...but, they share them with us, they're in the Kemper, and they're constantly making new ones that they'll share.

Btw, in that 27 minute clip Mats only goes through a few profiles, using one guitar...try the same profile with a Tele, Strat or Les Paul and it's a new ball game for each profile/guitar combination.

Thing is, anyone can make any modeller or amp sound like shite, it's easy to do.
Peter's studio has no fancy gear in it, no rackmount compressors or pre amps, no fancy mic's, nothing like that, he has a very average Yamaha mixing desk and the pre amps in it are the only pre's in his studio.
The song we did in Peter's studio is basic Kemper into a Soundcard, that's it.
What he does do well is he knows how to mix, and he knows how and what to play to make most gear sound good in a recording and mix.