21 posts
Ok, so seems like a foolish question maybe, but after a very long layoff from playing, I am back at it. Has only been a week, still working on getting callouses, and my time is still limited etc.
Anyway, saw Sheep and Derek talking about amps that are hard to play versus easy, and thought about it last night while practicing. I still don't have my chops anywhere near in shape, but while flailing away i suddenly realized the amp was "singing", whereas up until that point it hadn't been. have you guys noticed this sort of thing - the amp takes a while to get to that state? Or have I been off so long I am just having my feel come back slowly?
IMHO, it's both. Yes, the amp warms up and sounds better. No doubt about that. But also, when I've been off a few days, my touch or phrasing or whatever is off. And even when the amp itself is good, I'm not. The longer I play the more my playing tunes up, so, yeah the amp sings better.
You are an excellent player. I think that, after your amp warms up, you are noticing your playing coming back in tune with what you expect.
I'm basing this on my own experience though. I can play for 15 minutes 4 nights in a row. ON the fifth night I play for an hour. After about 20 minutes, my playing gets notably better.... and yes, everything sounds better from then on.
p.s. going to look now for the S+D conversation.
here's the thread, cool new stuff from Derek :) the stuff I mentioned was just a by product of the discussion.
http://www.chargermusic.com/wh/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1326558313
Yeah I kinda figured it's a bit of both, probably more on my end as I had been playing probably 40 minutes or so by the time I noticed the change. And of course, I was out of time shortly thereafter!
Was just sort of funny because the amp was sounding fine, just felt harder to play than I remembered.
The amp felt harder to play?
Here's another thing I've noticed over the years... the more out of shape I am, the more gain I like. LOL Not that I don't like me some gain anyway. ;) I do play clean a significant part of my playing time now. (That Budda clean channel is SO nice!) But, when me feel is sloppy, more gain makes it feel better. And, the Tone Press is your friend! LOL (The Tone Press is my friend all the time though).
You know, I used to have a hard time getting good sounds from amps... for example, I remember playing through a Marshall JCM when I was 18 or 19, and not understanding how to get the crunch out of it, not being able to play my stock Guitar Center licks, just flailing. Now when I play pretty much any amp, I sound like me, if that makes any sense. I think once you have a defined style and feel and you can really play, the amp becomes less important. E.g. if I go into guitar center and play any one of 20 amps, I pretty much hear me in it.
I think a big part of it for me was that for so long I played heavy music with a lot of distortion, and I was kind of at a loss when I ran into something like a Fender Twin or something that needed a lot of volume to have tone. But now I play clean a lot, and it makes a huge difference... because almost every amp has a clean sound, some are just crappier than others.
The amp felt harder to play?
Yup. I've run into this many times trying out gear in the past - some combinations of guitar and amp are magic, having an almost liquid feel when you play, while others are like molasses, just feel slow and unresponsive, ie. harder to play.
For clarification - I mean taking the same guitar from amp to amp.
You know, I used to have a hard time getting good sounds from amps... for example, I remember playing through a Marshall JCM when I was 18 or 19, and not understanding how to get the crunch out of it, not being able to play my stock Guitar Center licks, just flailing. Now when I play pretty much any amp, I sound like me, if that makes any sense. I think once you have a defined style and feel and you can really play, the amp becomes less important. E.g. if I go into guitar center and play any one of 20 amps, I pretty much hear me in it.
I think a big part of it for me was that for so long I played heavy music with a lot of distortion, and I was kind of at a loss when I ran into something like a Fender Twin or something that needed a lot of volume to have tone. But now I play clean a lot, and it makes a huge difference... because almost every amp has a clean sound, some are just crappier than others.
I agree with most of that, but in this case it's not about tone - I didn't move a knob or anything. It's more voodoo-ish I guess.
could it be voltage to the amp? don't know if you have power conditioning or not... or if it could even produce this effect (noticeably)... but maybe it was some fluctuation in power supplied - like a brown sound variac effect in reverse (stiff amp instead of spongy).
honestly though, I thought this thread was going to be about how long I leave amps in standby before playing... lol!
I sound about the same on a flexi, univalve, and uberschall these days - guitars sound similar too - all just different flavors of the same thing... it's neat and it sucks at the same time - neat that it sounds like "me"... sucks that I spent all that money for variety and wound up with stuff that all sounds like "me". ;)
Sheep brings another good point. NO DOUBT (Dar and I have both measured this) wall voltage varies and some nights my amp sounds better than others in easily recognizable degrees.
One night I played the Tweaker for 30 minutes, and the Budda for 30. Neither sounded that great. I measured the wall voltage. Couple nights later the tweaker sounded great as soon as I started playing and better a few minutes later. Then switched and the budda sounded killer! Measured... about 5 volts higher than the other night. Easily heard difference!
For what it's worth, when I checked later, turning the boost up (pedal) just a bit did compensate some, but not all of the difference.
Well now I'm guessing last night was more an instance of my own feel coming back, based on it being 40 minutes. However, Sheep - do you notice a change in "sponginess" as the tubes warm up?
Haha edit based on Howie's post - I do have a power conditioner but hmmm if you notice that maybe there was some voltage change. Hard to believe it would be that noticable but could be. Just so I don't get like Eric Johnson and start preferring one battery brand over another based on sound... :D
Then again, Howie is talking about tone, I am talking about feel... But I guess the voltage could be in play for stiff versus spongy as well...
I notice some increase in sponge as tubes age... but not while playing on a particular day, so far.
the other thing that occurs to me... when I've taken long breaks from guitar playing, I often come back and think my amps are stiff after 15 mins or so of jamming around. can't get the sustain I want out of notes or chords, everything feels off and is very frustrating. in my case, this is all down to left hand strength and endurance - I fight with amps and guitars a lot less after a week or two once I'm playing more regularly - sustain comes back, irritating squeaks and noises go away. other problems arise to take over, of course, but so it goes! :)
I guess time will tell, and it's likely a combination of all these things to varying degrees. But yeah, sustain is a part of the equation as well, and i can see how that is partly left hand strength/endurance.
Sheep - how long do you leave your amp in standby? :P
Sorta a placebo effect. ;D You just started hitting your stride and the amp was playing tricks on ya, giving you the impression IT was flowing better when in reality it was you. ;)
Really, they do have a mind of their own. I experience the 'uneven power' thing at least once a week and it pisses me off, I can now tell the moment I throw the standby switch and strike that first chord if it's gonna be a good day or not. When it happens, the highest end (presence) is lacking, the mids have no character and the volume is off. I haven't solved how to get around it or what caueses it, I just know I'm screwed for a while and go do something else, lol. The next day all will be well again. I will say this, it seems like some amps are more susceptible to that than others...the Quick Rod was easily the most frequent, the 5150 III almost never did it and the new Cameron amp lies somewhere in between.
I normally leave my amp on standby for about 10 minutes before playing, just the usual routine for me (turn it on and hit the reading room ;)) and honestly, I never notice a difference in tone from when I first start playing to hours later, it sounds the same to me...but seriously, I have the worst musical ears here - I'd put money on it. ::)
I would tell ya that it does take time for an amp to warm up. You don't HEAR the sound you want to hear and thus you are not as inspired, this makes the amp a bit more difficult to play.
If I know I am getting ready to play, I generally turn the amp on first and let it sit in bypass and warm up. It's often on a good ten minutes before I grab a guitar and start playing.
The sound will change over time. Tube amps are fical creatures. I would say I generally get a consistant tone but when it ain't happening it ain't happening. Sometimes I turn the amp off and walk away. And about an hour later turn it back on and for some reason it sounds different a little bit.
Also, there's room temperature, relative humidity, user happiness, how many cups of coffee you've had or not had...
charger — Jan 26, 2012Also, there's room temperature, relative humidity, user happiness, how many cups of coffee you've had or not had...
If you've consumed a case of Mt. Dew and eatin' a bag of Chips A'hoy or not... :D
Thanks for chiming in guys... pretty sure its a matter of my chops coming back. Last night I got to the "amp singing" point in about ten minutes. I did end up tweaking knobs this time though :)
BTW, it's been around a 2 year break... With one week long comeback attempt in the middle.
Fenderbender — Jan 26, 2012[quote author=charger link=1327518678/0#16 date=1327605079]Also, there's room temperature, relative humidity, user happiness, how many cups of coffee you've had or not had...
If you've consumed a case of Mt. Dew and eatin' a bag of Chips A'hoy or not... :D
Speaking for myself, I finally got off Dew nearly 4 years ago and my playing has improved a bunch! ;) ;D
Still hooked on Chips A hoy though!
Two years is a long break but I'm thinking it would come back pretty quickly. You probably feel like you're hacking at the strings right now compared to whenever you were averaging a lot of hours per week.