Hookbender — Jan 24, 2014It's a alarming frame of mind to say global warming is bullshit, apparently because he experienced 7 degree temps in Alaska, Ha, and of course the lack of data thing ..... pause..... and then say I believe in God. In one sitting. ;D
I have a feeling that "data" won't be all that important going forward in this little discussion.
95% of the scientists
"know" (not believe) that global warming is happening. I am with the scientific community on that, the religious right and the big oil controlled republican party are the only ones who don't believe in it, because they are "believers" not skeptics, I am a skeptic myself but I do think the universities and all the scientists are on the right track.....
Humanity as a whole is trained from birth to be "believers" believers in some religious dogma or in societies dictates. It takes real courage to go from "believing" to say to oneself "I know some stuff and there is a lot of stuff that I don't know". That is the difference between a believer and a man of knowledge. One just believes whatever he is trained to believe, the other takes responsibility for himself and his own actions knowing full well the possible consequences of being a man of knowledge.
I prefer the latter way, to try and be a man of knowledge not a believer......
So in conclusion, sell all of your winter gear because it will be worthless in a few decades......
Well, posts like that should be in the "religion " threads, where it's perfectly acceptible to insult peoples intelligence. :)
That said, I would like to thank Al for the 59 degree day we had today.
DreamTheaterRules — Feb 02, 2014Well, posts like that should be in the "religion " threads, where it's perfectly acceptible to insult peoples intelligence. :)
That said, I would like to thank Al for the 59 degree day we had today.
Huh? :-?
Wait a minute, that doesn't make any sense!
Religion itself is an insult to people's intelligence! (Please note the apostrophe between "people" and the "s" to denote ownership instead of plurality. ;) )
HTH. ;D
Peoples could also be a name. So, who has the last name Peoples? :D
All the years I've been here tells me that DTR must really be upset about that post. We never stay on topic in any thread. ;D
DreamTheaterRules — Feb 02, 2014Well, posts like that should be in the "religion " threads, where it's perfectly acceptible to insult peoples intelligence. :)
That said, I would like to thank Al for the 59 degree day we had today.
It's surely not meant as a insult, you just took it that way. that should tell you something. ;D You get 3 guesses. ;D
http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_shermer_on_believing_strange_things.html
CraigBert — Feb 02, 2014
;D
Ah, hell no ;D Power to the Peoples!! Growing up in Virginia, this is what I thought of
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=BwZxqR6rQhcrEM&tbnid=xTLM94_Z-cN-3M:&ved=0CAIQjBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peoplesdrugstore.net%2Fstorefront.jpg&ei=5BDvUuKAKI-ikQf1t4CAAg&bvm=bv.60444564,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNE-RlPoDN0xX3lg7SfUcf9k0pPdAQ&ust=1391485538357025
By the way, it was 80 degrees here today.
We finally got some rain, I'm thinking a half inch, and some snow up in the sierras, so this might not be a complete loss of a rainy season yet. Looks like the high pressure ridge that has inexplicably been blocking every storm off the coast of california for 13 months is finally crumbling. Same high pressure ridge, btw, actually rerouted storms we were supposed to get out to the midwest.
Hookbender — Feb 02, 2014[quote author=DreamTheaterRules link=1389068169/100#101 date=1391306998]Well, posts like that should be in the "religion " threads, where it's perfectly acceptible to insult peoples intelligence. :)
That said, I would like to thank Al for the 59 degree day we had today.
It's surely not meant as a insult, you just took it that way. that should tell you something. ;D You get 3 guesses. ;D
I didn't "take" anything wrong. I'm not offended. My feelings aren't hurt. Basically, one post says that believers aren't educated enough to know better. How could a believer possibly be offended by that? :-?
I have no idea why you guys assume that nobody who is a "believer" has ever taken the time to research or "educate" themselves, and only believes what they are told. Truth of the matter is, most of the believers I know spend more time learning about it than any of you do. The other truth of the matter is, I don't CARE what any of you believe, nor will I waste my time debating it with you.
This thread was started as a joke and to talk about weather. I intentionally avoid the religion threads because I'm not going to listen to people tell me I believe what I believe because I'm just not smart enough to know better. So, now that we know I'm not smart or funny, I promise to not post anything that will offend the smart people. Course, with us dumb people, if you take away the bad jokes and things that offend smart people, we don't have much left to say. ;D ;D
"Humor" is not being serious about something, then calling it a joke as soon as someone calls you out on it.
It's the internet, people are going to challenge you. Even your friends.
DreamTheaterRules — Feb 03, 2014
I have no idea why you guys assume that nobody who is a "believer" has ever taken the time to research or "educate" themselves, and only believes what they are told. Truth of the matter is, most of the believers I know spend more time learning about it than any of you do. The other truth of the matter is, I don't CARE what any of you believe, nor will I waste my time debating it with you.
Ah you took it personally, I was just stating what I prefer. I don't disrespect believers, I simply prefer to be a man of knowledge who knows some things and realizes he don't know many things, I don't believe in anything like I was taught to do by the church and society in general, however I am neutral on it all, and I don't disbelieve either, everything I was taught when young is "Possible" and that is the best I can do amigo. However I don't disrespect others who do believe. There are many folks on this planet and all of them are different. And whatever they need to get by is fine with me. I was speaking first person, I was not talking about anyone else.
However I do disrespect the movers and shakers who spend tons of money on the greatest brain washing tool ever invented by mankind the TV, people like big oil and others who want humanity to think like they want them to think.
Let me ask you what does religion have to do with global warming. Those who are on the religious right just accept the dogma that is fed to them by the pulpit. There are great truths written in the scriptures, all of them.
It is just that I think most of those folks never question what they are taught
beyond what they read as written by others, they just accept it all without personal discernment. I know this because I watch people closely and listen to what they say. I also listen to
the intent behind what they say and that is more revealing to me than anything else they talk about.
Skepticism is a thing of beauty. And clear vision is also a thing of beauty.
Religion is fine. Believe whatever you want. But don't impose that on others, please. And don't assume that when we use science, that is the same as your beliefs. It is not. Science is rigorously tested and subject to scrutiny, and peer review. Religion is not. Yes religion can have its place... it's your personal set of beliefs. No, you can't dictate to everyone else because of it, if you do that, you're just an asshole.
I doubt skeptics get offended by something said by a believer on the subject of religion. Why would you "believe" that to be true?
Knowledge is only useful if applied. A lot of people have had classes in college that taught critical thinking and all that and don't apply it. My ex for one. ;D She refused completely to hear it. She got pissed because I pretty much quit being religious, judged me for it, but wouldn't let me explain why I changed that little stance. And, probably would have become more angry if I did explain it.
People are trained in school to read and study subjects with factual material and are then tested/questioned on such material in hopes of obtaining as much of that knowledge as possible and to show that you answer the questions with factual answers ....... except when it comes to religion. Ahhhh, thats a no no. It must not be done. How dare you! I think people that think like that need to get their head correct a few times. 8-) They should make that your punishment. ;D Do it enough and you'll see things quite differently in time. ;D
I don't know if I'd be for banning religion from T.V. but damn, at least put a damn limit on it. It's on every other channel now. business is booming it seems. ;D
By the way Howie my focus was not on religious beliefs as much as believing in the system, I mentioned what the religions and society taught me as a disclaimer to what I now do believe, which is nothing. There are only a series of possibilities to me these days, I don't believe, and I don't disbelieve. I am wise enough to know that I ain't that wise. And my comment really had nothing to do with religion except for the fact that their early teachings made me an indiscriminate believer in everything without questioning it. My real context in that original post is in the TV, and internet, I don't believe anything I read on it until I see the university studies, however I don't disbelieve it either it is all just possible and if it is important enough to me I will research it.
Hook I am not at all religious as in the context of organized Christianity which is what I was born in to being a believer of. However both my sons are quite religious and one is an ordained minister. I can see the point to it, and I do not demean it at all. More power to them if it makes them happy and eases their path through life. Religion to me is taught by folks who read the scriptures and do not read the energy flow of the universe which to me is the real creative source. Everything is energy based. Even the smallest particles when stopped have no actual mass, mass is generated by the energy of the protons and electrons of atoms as far as I can tell.
I ain't telling anybody how to live or what to believe, but I will debate it of course if they try and force their beliefs on me as if I should also believe like they do.
"I am wise enough to know that I ain't that wise."
I'm stealing that. :)
You both need to wise up.
a wise man knows an allegory when he reads one.
like it? I love it! platonically, of course.
DreamTheaterRules — Jan 31, 2014ah, Tripper's back. Don't have to be nice to him anymore. ;D ;D
Now now, I'm just teasing. :)
Tripper
6 to 12 inches of snow/freezing rain, whatever tomorrow. Charlotte NC. Fuck you Al. Global warming my snowy frostbitten ass. ;D ;D
Just stocked up on my favorite beer and a bottle of wine, and a tad of food. Been snowing here all day already. Tomorrow is suppose to be Ohio weather. ;D I am ready...... for fucking summerrrrrr!!!!!!!
We just had 9" of snow late last week and 1/4" of ice on Saturday. It's mostly gone now so no big deal. Kind of nice to get that once every four years (which is about average around here). :)
Gonna be 80's here all week in Gods Country........Bwahaaaaaaaaaa y'all Yankees and Rebs suffering all winter back there in Hell 'er I mean the East Coast..............
Of course at 115* every day here the Hell remark above kinda reverses back on me for 4 solid months. :'(
Thank goodness for my new $6,308 AC unit...........
You can have your Global Warming, I prefer...
;)
Day 2 of sitting in the house and more snow today. This sucks. I'm about to go ape shit crazy. My house is spotless. Well, it's time for 8-).
Only day 2 and you can't think of anything to do??? Damn! I could probably stay inside for over a month (as long as I had enough food) and never be bored.
Damn. I like being outside. I feel like I'm in jail.
I'm watching my neighbor, who happens to be somewhat of an idiot, try to get his car back in the driveway after finding out he could on go 2 feet on the road in our hood. Him and his wife have the car in the driveway, but that isn't good enough. They want it pulled up to the garage, I guess. So, after their attempts, it seems they have slid the car into their yard and have completely burried the front tires in the yard. ;D ;D Not sure if they realize that yet. ;D ;D
Shit. I guess I'll go pull this idiot out of his yard with my truck. Beer time. ;D ;D
I've never seen snow like this.
Damn. Now he's using a snow shovel to get snow off his car. ;D I guess he doesn't appreciate paint. ;D
In 1965 executives at Shell wanted to know what the world would look like in the year 2000. They consulted a range of experts, who speculated about fusion-powered hovercrafts and "all sorts of fanciful technological stuff". When the oil company asked the scientist James Lovelock, he predicted that the main problem in 2000 would be the environment. "It will be worsening then to such an extent that it will seriously affect their business," he said.
"And of course," Lovelock says, with a smile 43 years later, "that's almost exactly what's happened."
Lovelock has been dispensing predictions from his one-man laboratory in an old mill in Cornwall since the mid-1960s, the consistent accuracy of which have earned him a reputation as one of Britain's most respected - if maverick - independent scientists. Working alone since the age of 40, he invented a device that detected CFCs, which helped detect the growing hole in the ozone layer, and introduced the Gaia hypothesis, a revolutionary theory that the Earth is a self-regulating super-organism. Initially ridiculed by many scientists as new age nonsense, today that theory forms the basis of almost all climate science.
For decades, his advocacy of nuclear power appalled fellow environmentalists - but recently increasing numbers of them have come around to his way of thinking. His latest book, The Revenge of Gaia, predicts that by 2020 extreme weather will be the norm, causing global devastation; that by 2040 much of Europe will be Saharan; and parts of London will be underwater. The most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report deploys less dramatic language - but its calculations aren't a million miles away from his.
As with most people, my panic about climate change is equalled only by my confusion over what I ought to do about it. A meeting with Lovelock therefore feels a little like an audience with a prophet. Buried down a winding track through wild woodland, in an office full of books and papers and contraptions involving dials and wires, the 88-year-old presents his thoughts with a quiet, unshakable conviction that can be unnerving. More alarming even than his apocalyptic climate predictions is his utter certainty that almost everything we're trying to do about it is wrong.
On the day we meet, the Daily Mail has launched a campaign to rid Britain of plastic shopping bags. The initiative sits comfortably within the current canon of eco ideas, next to ethical consumption, carbon offsetting, recycling and so on - all of which are premised on the calculation that individual lifestyle adjustments can still save the planet. This is, Lovelock says, a deluded fantasy. Most of the things we have been told to do might make us feel better, but they won't make any difference. Global warming has passed the tipping point, and catastrophe is unstoppable.
"It's just too late for it," he says. "Perhaps if we'd gone along routes like that in 1967, it might have helped. But we don't have time. All these standard green things, like sustainable development, I think these are just words that mean nothing. I get an awful lot of people coming to me saying you can't say that, because it gives us nothing to do. I say on the contrary, it gives us an immense amount to do. Just not the kinds of things you want to do."
He dismisses eco ideas briskly, one by one. "Carbon offsetting? I wouldn't dream of it. It's just a joke. To pay money to plant trees, to think you're offsetting the carbon? You're probably making matters worse. You're far better off giving to the charity Cool Earth, which gives the money to the native peoples to not take down their forests."
Do he and his wife try to limit the number of flights they take? "No we don't. Because we can't." And recycling, he adds, is "almost certainly a waste of time and energy", while having a "green lifestyle" amounts to little more than "ostentatious grand gestures". He distrusts the notion of ethical consumption. "Because always, in the end, it turns out to be a scam ... or if it wasn't one in the beginning, it becomes one."
Somewhat unexpectedly, Lovelock concedes that the Mail's plastic bag campaign seems, "on the face of it, a good thing". But it transpires that this is largely a tactical response; he regards it as merely more rearrangement of Titanic deckchairs, "but I've learnt there's no point in causing a quarrel over everything". He saves his thunder for what he considers the emptiest false promise of all - renewable energy.
"You're never going to get enough energy from wind to run a society such as ours," he says. "Windmills! Oh no. No way of doing it. You can cover the whole country with the blasted things, millions of them. Waste of time."
This is all delivered with an air of benign wonder at the intractable stupidity of people. "I see it with everybody. People just want to go on doing what they're doing. They want business as usual. They say, 'Oh yes, there's going to be a problem up ahead,' but they don't want to change anything."
Lovelock believes global warming is now irreversible, and that nothing can prevent large parts of the planet becoming too hot to inhabit, or sinking underwater, resulting in mass migration, famine and epidemics. Britain is going to become a lifeboat for refugees from mainland Europe, so instead of wasting our time on wind turbines we need to start planning how to survive. To Lovelock, the logic is clear. The sustainability brigade are insane to think we can save ourselves by going back to nature; our only chance of survival will come not from less technology, but more.
Nuclear power, he argues, can solve our energy problem - the bigger challenge will be food. "Maybe they'll synthesise food. I don't know. Synthesising food is not some mad visionary idea; you can buy it in Tesco's, in the form of Quorn. It's not that good, but people buy it. You can live on it." But he fears we won't invent the necessary technologies in time, and expects "about 80%" of the world's population to be wiped out by 2100. Prophets have been foretelling Armageddon since time began, he says. "But this is the real thing."
Faced with two versions of the future - Kyoto's preventative action and Lovelock's apocalypse - who are we to believe? Some critics have suggested Lovelock's readiness to concede the fight against climate change owes more to old age than science: "People who say that about me haven't reached my age," he says laughing.
But when I ask if he attributes the conflicting predictions to differences in scientific understanding or personality, he says: "Personality."
There's more than a hint of the controversialist in his work, and it seems an unlikely coincidence that Lovelock became convinced of the irreversibility of climate change in 2004, at the very point when the international consensus was coming round to the need for urgent action. Aren't his theories at least partly driven by a fondness for heresy?
"Not a bit! Not a bit! All I want is a quiet life! But I can't help noticing when things happen, when you go out and find something. People don't like it because it upsets their ideas."
But the suspicion seems confirmed when I ask if he's found it rewarding to see many of his climate change warnings endorsed by the IPCC. "Oh no! In fact, I'm writing another book now, I'm about a third of the way into it, to try and take the next steps ahead."
Interviewers often remark upon the discrepancy between Lovelock's predictions of doom, and his good humour. "Well I'm cheerful!" he says, smiling. "I'm an optimist. It's going to happen."
Humanity is in a period exactly like 1938-9, he explains, when "we all knew something terrible was going to happen, but didn't know what to do about it". But once the second world war was under way, "everyone got excited, they loved the things they could do, it was one long holiday ... so when I think of the impending crisis now, I think in those terms. A sense of purpose - that's what people want."
At moments I wonder about Lovelock's credentials as a prophet. Sometimes he seems less clear-eyed with scientific vision than disposed to see the version of the future his prejudices are looking for. A socialist as a young man, he now favours market forces, and it's not clear whether his politics are the child or the father of his science. His hostility to renewable energy, for example, gets expressed in strikingly Eurosceptic terms of irritation with subsidies and bureaucrats. But then, when he talks about the Earth - or Gaia - it is in the purest scientific terms all.
"There have been seven disasters since humans came on the earth, very similar to the one that's just about to happen. I think these events keep separating the wheat from the chaff. And eventually we'll have a human on the planet that really does understand it and can live with it properly. That's the source of my optimism."
What would Lovelock do now, I ask, if he were me? He smiles and says: "Enjoy life while you can. Because if you're lucky it's going to be 20 years before it hits the fan."
CraigBert — Feb 12, 2014You can have your Global Warming, I prefer...
;)
Thats the wrong kind of plant. ;D
Hookbender — Feb 20, 2014[quote author=CraigBert link=1389068169/125#130 date=1392198652]You can have your Global Warming, I prefer...
;)
Thats the wrong kind of plant. ;D
Wow, I didn't even notice that there
were plants in that picture! Man, you need help! ;D
desertbluesman — Feb 19, 2014 Blah, blah, blah, we're all fucked, blah, blah, blah...
Well, if I only have 20 more years to enjoy myself, I guess I can stop wasting time recycling! ;D
CraigBert — Feb 20, 2014[quote author=Hookbender link=1389068169/125#139 date=1392864965][quote author=CraigBert link=1389068169/125#130 date=1392198652]You can have your Global Warming, I prefer...
;)
Thats the wrong kind of plant. ;D
Wow, I didn't even notice that there
were plants in that picture! Man, you need help! ;D
No. If your gonna post a picture of a woman, I'd expect a much better looking one than that..... with less clothing. ;D
I think she's hot. YMMV.
Oh wait, you're from the south... Maybe this is more your type? :D
;D
Your gettin old, son. She really isn't that great, too me anyway.
