83 posts
Years have gone by since most of us (who have seen the vid or actual concert) have watched Def Leppard's 'In the Round In Your Face' concert.
Was the shit in '88. But again...youtube, etc was not around then. So maybe not so many people have seen it.
Enter today....we can now see anything. And this is one thing that still amazes me. Def Leppard Live in 1988. What was thought of as an 'overproduced' album that sold millions, ended up sounding incredible live. Phil and Steve were, in my opinion, one of the greatest 2-guitar tandems that has ever existed. Watch the whole concert and come back and tell me otherwise. They did this 26 years ago.
And if you pay attention to what each does throughout, it is awesome. 'Heartbreak' especially.
Incredible band. Incredible concert.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAT0_EQozBw
Never saw Def Leopard or heard much of their music. But the absolute best concert I ever saw was Roy Buchanan at a little venue in Wildwood N.J. back before he hit the national scene. I sat on the floor, feet from the stage, and watched a display of guitar genius that stunned me and two recent graduates of Berkeley School of music to silence for the whole ride home, a one and a half hour ride up the Garden State Parkway. No one said a word the whole trip home.........
Best one-armed drummer out there! :)
They were so great. I listened to Pyromania religiously for at least a year, until my cassette completely wore out.
I've heard they are going back and rerecording songs from their catalog because of a label dispute over royalties on their digtal versions? Good for them- I doubt they can recreate the production they got with Lange but more power to 'em.
I always liked the interplay between the guitars. Not harmonizing like Maiden, but just really melodic counter-pointing (hope that makes sense!). I also forgot that Steve Clark died in '91. They sure had their share if hurdles to overcome.
I never liked Def Leopard at all. Soft "pop" rock that was way too much over-produced. There was just no room for the music to breath and I never liked the vocals either. Big thumbs down from me
Jon — Apr 15, 2014I never liked Def Leopard at all. Soft "pop" rock that was way too much over-produced. There was just no room for the music to breath and I never liked the vocals either. Big thumbs down from me
Yeah, definitely not music full of feel or emotion. But they really nailed pop metal, with huge vocals, massive production, etc. And there's some really good stuff on High and Dry and Pyromania. The whole Hysteria album really lost me--it was just like everything else but taking to excess.
I always liked them, never loved them. When this album came out I lived in an apartment and the guy below me played this album almost every night. I'm not exaggerating. We nicknamed him "the cruiser" because he cruised town for hours. And, he had this going in his car almost every time you heard him. One of the guys that used to come over almost every night to party/play cards after basketball, said that he loved the album but didn't need to buy it because "the cruiser played it every night." I remember at one point, one of my buddies heard it so many times he actually asked him to stop playing it every night because we were getting tired of it. His answer was "But it's the greatest album ever!" ;D
Anyway, I'm trying to watch through this as I get a chance. I can see where someone who was really into their music would like the concert. They are pretty into the show. I remember this concert tour and ALMOST going to it. But they were so popular then that we went hours before hand and waited in line, and it sold out before we got tickets.
Johnny, I could see you up there with them! (With some more hair perhaps). :)
Personally, I like their first album more than anything that followed Pyromania.
I found
THIS Behind the Music video very interesting about all the stuff that happened to them.
Good find Craig. I'll try to watch it tonight when I get home.
Just think how big MJackson's "Thriller" was. Def Lep was 2nd only to that, that year. They were the shit, man. 65 Million cd's and albums? The resolve and determination of the drummer was simply a inspiring, incredible, just amazing will. I just don't see how a music person could not be impressed with their success and experiences. I could not hear any other music besides DL, VH, Bon Jovi, Journey, Boston.... shit like that and be happy! I even started listing too, and kinda liking now, Motley Crew. That music, at times, is refreshing to me. Sounds more fun dangerous compared to the dark serious rock of today. Or what followed it basically, Stained, Three Doors Down, Creed, dark sound. I liked it all, but Def??? They were the shit for a while. I think what AC DC did was brilliant with the back and black or what ever, album.
Look what SRV did for the blues and guitar playing. Lots of folk don't even know who he is. Lots of teenagers around Charlotte NC are listening to this shit now. It's like a little fad or something. DL, LOVERBOY, all that shit. Little Night Ranger for the ladies. Hell yeah!
Hard for me to look down on these guys. Any of those type bands. They made millions, not just a living, doing what they love.
On a side-note (since Hooky mentioned 'em), AC/DC just announced that they are retiring after 40 years of being together. I've heard that one of the guitarists had a stroke and can't play, but 40 years is a LONG time to stay together!
Plus those schoolboy outfits are starting to look a bit strange on old farts. :D
May not be retiring
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/10769783/ACDC-We-are-not-retiring.html
I have always loved AC/DC, pure raw power.....a world away from the overproduced soft pop of Def Leopard.
Have you ever listened to Def Leppard's first album John? On Through The Night?
CraigBert — Apr 17, 2014Have you ever listened to Def Leppard's first album John? On Through The Night?
Probably at some time in the past, although I don't specifically remember the first album, but then again if the voice is the same as the later albums then I really don't want to. That guy just has a really annoying singing voice.
Like em or not, every musician would love a taste of the success they had. It doesn't matter if you like them or not, they are a historic huge type band that was big time successful.
And that you tube thing, Craig, was interesting. I hate their latest albums. To me they suck. But I'll listen to anything they come out with hoping for a great song or 2.
Sometimes you don't need great playing to have great songs. I mean complicated stuff. Sometimes a song is just a good song. Plain and simple.
Hookbender — Apr 18, 2014
Sometimes you don't need great playing to have great songs. I mean complicated stuff. Sometimes a song is just a good song. Plain and simple.
I agree with that 100%.......but I don't like any of their songs, never have and probably never will unless they write something I do like of course :) If you like them, then good luck to you.
"pour some sugar on me, in the name of love"
You just have to love that, Jon! ;D
Nothing wrong with liking what you like Jon (something we've tried to get through to Howie a few times). But I can imagine if you were a teenager with the chance to play in front of thousands of people (with the majority being women who want to have sex with you), you'd probably stick with the formula that worked. ;) :D
Craig, physician, heal thyself. :)
Not sure why you ALWAYS have to add disclaimers to your music about it being something I won't like. My musical spectrum is far far broader than you indicate. When it is not MUSIC though, I'm not interested. If it's not made by a real live musician, I'm not interested. So, computer generated dance and trance, (C)Rap, etc... no interest. But I'll listen to a great song of any style or great musicians of any style.
CraigBert — Apr 18, 2014Nothing wrong with liking what you like Jon (something we've tried to get through to Howie a few times). But I can imagine if you were a teenager with the chance to play in front of thousands of people (with the majority being women who want to have sex with you), you'd probably stick with the formula that worked. ;) :D
My point exactly.
Jon — Apr 18, 2014[quote author=Hookbender link=1397368257/0#15 date=1397781364]
Sometimes you don't need great playing to have great songs. I mean complicated stuff. Sometimes a song is just a good song. Plain and simple.
I agree with that 100%.......but I don't like any of their songs, never have and probably never will unless they write something I do like of course :) If you like them, then good luck to you.
Why would I need luck if I like them?
DreamTheaterRules — Apr 18, 2014"pour some sugar on me, in the name of love"
You just have to love that, Jon! ;D
I like that better than "Beat It".
Hey, watch it! Eddie plays on "Beat it!" And Luke too!!!
DreamTheaterRules — Apr 18, 2014Craig, physician, heal thyself. :)
Not sure why you ALWAYS have to add disclaimers to your music about it being something I won't like. My musical spectrum is far far broader than you indicate. When it is not MUSIC though, I'm not interested. If it's not made by a real live musician, I'm not interested. So, computer generated dance and trance, (C)Rap, etc... no interest. But I'll listen to a great song of any style or great musicians of any style.
So it's not "MUSIC" unless it's made with Howie Approved live musicians, eh? And you wonder why we have to keep adding disclaimers? Riiiiight. ;)
You are seriously confusing what music really is with the recreation of performance. :)
Craig. Music 101. "Music is made by musicians, playing instruments." If it is computer generated, or regenerated looped, sampled, patched, etc. it was not created by a musician playing an instrument. It was created by someone playing on a computer. You should know this by now. You really need to pay more attention! ;D ;D
DreamTheaterRules — Apr 18, 2014Craig. Music 101. "Music is made by musicians, playing instruments." If it is computer generated, or regenerated looped, sampled, patched, etc. it was not created by a musician playing an instrument. It was created by someone playing on a computer. You should know this by now. You really need to pay more attention! ;D ;D
Your definition is wrong in more than one way (and I think you know it). Music neither requires a musician nor an instrument. Birds, creeks, people whistling, etc., can all be musical. I've heard background noise from space and rhythms of the body mapped to notes and they definitely were musical. I feel sorry for you with such a narrow view, you're really missing out on lots of good stuff just because others are telling you what you're "supposed" to like. :)
DreamTheaterRules — Apr 18, 2014"pour some sugar on me, in the name of love"
You just have to love that, Jon! ;D
oh good grief, a big fat NO on those !
CraigBert — Apr 18, 2014 I've heard background noise from space and rhythms of the body mapped to notes and they definitely were musical.
Most of the background noise from rhythms of the body that I know of are from the musical fruit. Beans! It can be quite musical. LOL
I saw Def Leppard early on.. High and dry, I believe. They opened up for Blackfoot in a little Civic Center in Salem, VA. I wouldn't say best ever concert though.
I saw one of them Rock SuperBowls in the Tangerine Bowl in Orlando in 1980. Whole Shitload of good bands. ZZ Top, Rossington-Collins Band, Pat Travers Band, Triumph, Point Blank, Johnny Van Zant Band. I was down here visiting and stumbled onto that one. That one was pretty impressive.
I saw Pink Floyd a couple of times. U2 put on a really good stadium show.
I have tickets to see Iced Earth next weekend here in St. Pete. I'm really looking forward to that. I haven't been out to a live show in a long time. If you don't hear from me after that, I probably got Mosh-mashed.
DreamTheaterRules — Apr 18, 2014Craig. Music 101. "Music is made by musicians, playing instruments." If it is computer generated, or regenerated looped, sampled, patched, etc. it was not created by a musician playing an instrument. It was created by someone playing on a computer. You should know this by now. You really need to pay more attention! ;D ;D
I'd off the evidence of Milli Vanilli's situation as proof your statement is wrong.
You call that music??? :-?
Jon — Apr 17, 2014May not be retiring
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/10769783/ACDC-We-are-not-retiring.html
I have always loved AC/DC, pure raw power.....a world away from the overproduced soft pop of Def Leopard.
This is ironic, because his production on "Back in Black" is really what put Mutt Lange (producer of every Def Leppard album) on the map.
DTR, I'm afraid to even start because I know you'll feel like people are picking on you, as usual. But your statement is so wrong it's actually kind of amazing. Feel free to tell all the musicians here *who actually post their music* that their sampled drums and computer-generated synth sounds invalidate their music.
Charger, you know how Craig and I like to give each other crap about what we listen too. Don't take my part too seriously, although I believe Craig actually does listen to some of that ... "stuff" he says he does. :)
That said, a guy using a drum program to complete a song that has guitar rhythm, lead, melodies, bass, maybe vocals, is hardly the same thing as a guy who can't play any on instrument sitting on a computer and putting together hip hop loops and then talking over it and selling it as "music." Sorry if you disagree, but I don't consider that music. No singing, no instruments, made buy a person who can't sing or play an instrument.... whatever it is, it has NO soul and is not man made, so you can have all of it you want. I'll pass.
Music is a relative term. Very general term at best. I've been amazed by people singing without a band at all. Only using one instrument, their voice. I've heard a girl sing a song while taping a plastic cup on the floor for a beat. Go to New Orleans and take a listen to some of the folks playing on the street with a trashcan lid and a trashcan for beats. I wouldn't call a trash can and lid or a plastic cup a instrument, so how could it be qualified as music? Pretty simple, if it qualifies as music to you, any person, then it is to them. Music favors a democrats mindset. It's wide open and experiments are welcome. That Milly V stuff passed as music, hit the top of the charts and was played live, ;D, to thousands and they loved it. So, yes, it qualifies as music. Music is what music is, imo. I don't think it has to many rules and regulations. I think we can even disagree about what is music and what isn't, and I'd still be right. :D And the obvious, you don't decide what is music and what isn't for anyone but yourself. I don't like death metal or real hard ass rock music, but it's still music. At least imo it is. I don't think the fact I dislike that music should mean that it isn't, in fact, music.
I don't think hearing Stratmans mouth run about religion is music, but you probably do. So it's music to you. just keep your windows up when blasting that crap in your car. ;D
DreamTheaterRules — Apr 21, 2014Charger, you know how Craig and I like to give each other crap about what we listen too. Don't take my part too seriously, although I believe Craig actually does listen to some of that ... "stuff" he says he does. :)
That said, a guy using a drum program to complete a song that has guitar rhythm, lead, melodies, bass, maybe vocals, is hardly the same thing as a guy who can't play any on instrument sitting on a computer and putting together hip hop loops and then talking over it and selling it as "music." Sorry if you disagree, but I don't consider that music. No singing, no instruments, made buy a person who can't sing or play an instrument.... whatever it is, it has NO soul and is not man made, so you can have all of it you want. I'll pass.
What if the person can play an instrument, has a ton of musical talent, and makes it all on the computer? And how do you know? How do you know a hip hop artist rapping over a beat isn't a Julliard-trained musician?
just dropping by to tell DTR I couldn't disagree with him more. :)
If you can't sing, you aren't a singer. Oh wait. The consensus here sounds like that if you take computer generated voice noises and make them into a song, you are a singer!
nice try Hook. Has NOTHING to do with what I said, as anything can be used as a percussive INSTRUMENT and many crude primative forms of other instruments can be used. But those are instruments and thus do not qualify for my argument. And don't try to twist what I said. I didn't say that someone could't play a guitar riff or drum pattern, save it and use it to create a song. I didn't say a guitar player or pianist couldn't use a drum program to create songs. Etc. i said that anyone who can't play any instrument is not a musician, and that anything created completely by a computer and without the playing of an instrument, is not music.
If you guys think otherwise, that is certainly your perogative. Explains why so many of you like (C)rap! ;D
DreamTheaterRules — Apr 22, 2014 i said that anyone who can't play any instrument is not a musician, and that anything created completely by a computer and without the playing of an instrument, is not music.
And we're merely saying that YOU need to go look up the definition of "music" and you will find that it has a different meaning. ;)
DreamTheaterRules — Apr 22, 2014i said that anyone who can't play any instrument is not a musician, and that anything created completely by a computer and without the playing of an instrument, is not music.
by that logic, pavarotti was not a musician and tediously entering the midi for a chopin nocturne from the score through some editor application (keyboard and mouse only) results in non-music when played back.
bzzt.
"music" is not "what I think is good", that's preference and taste.
no one will argue with the statement "I don't like that music"... but to appropriate the power to deem something music or not unto yourself is outrageous. that's no longer an expression of an opinion, it's an attempt to make your opinion "correct" by defining it to be so.
no one gets to define what sounds good for someone else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuyJG9nN4Bg
how about this? he plays an instrument... is he a musician? is he playing music?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kJus_qf2Pk
to sum up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denying_the_antecedent
If I like it, then it's music.
I don't like it.
Therefore, it's not music.
bzzt.
is this art?
Jackson Pollock No. 21... I don't dig it. it's art, though.
art that doesn't appeal to me.
DreamTheaterRules — Apr 22, 2014 i said that anyone who can't play any instrument is not a musician, and that anything created completely by a computer and without the playing of an instrument, is not music.
A) Singers who don't play any instruments.
B) Emily Howell (http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/music_box/2010/05/ill_be_bach.html)
If I like it, then it's music.
I don't like it.
Therefore, it's not music.
NEVER said that AT ALL. There are lots of forms of music I don't like. That IS taste. And who says I wouldn't like something created on a computer. You're trying to blur the lines of what I said as well, with the "tediously entering the midi for a chopin nocturne from the score through some editor application (keyboard and mouse only) results in non-music when played back." That WAS music to start with and is recreated. And don't try the "what if a piano player programs every note in a computer instead of playing it" or same for guitar or whatever. That IS a musician, creating music in a computer and is NOT what I"m talking about. That person could play the notes and record them and is simply doing it in the computer instead. NOT what I'm talking about.
I had a friend of a friend, who did (and released) CDs about 10 years ago. It was all loop stuff he gathered from anywhere he could get it. When he hear me play, he asked if I could do some tracks for him. Atmostpheric things, and wild acid rock solos. I said I could. When another friend of mine later asked him what he "played" (meaning instrument), he answered "I'm an electronic musician." He could not play any instrument AT ALL and had no knowledge of notes, or anything of the sort. He'd patch together loops to create his "songs." The things I gave him were the only instruments ever PLAYED on any of his CDs. IMO, he is NOT a musician. THAT< and the rap, hip hop guys who are only DJ's playing parts of other peoples music or samples, are not musicians. Of, if they are, it is not presented in that form.
And lest we get to tied up with the "you can't make up the definition of a word" stuff, I'll copy and paste right from the Webster dictionary.
mu·sic noun, often attributive \myü-zik\
: sounds that are sung by voices or played on musical instruments
: written or printed symbols showing how music should be played or sung
: the art or skill of creating or performing music
Works for me. :)
That pesky Webster dictionary thing again...
mu·si·cian noun \myü-zi-shn\
: a person who writes, sings, or plays music
arranged samples by a "non-musician" is ABSOLUTELY music.
the thing you are missing is that THE COMPUTER is an instrument.
what does Webster have to say about fallacies? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority
to be honest, your logic on this topic sucks.
for clarity: I'm saying your logic is crappy. I'm not saying you are crappy.
"your logic sucks" -> fixable
"you suck" -> not fixable and also not what I'm saying.
Sheep, please remember: At this place, I reserve the right to be wrong about everything I say. :)
(and note, this all started with the ongoing joke between Craig and I about each others musical tastes. :) )
ok ok. but one last thing!
get out of logical fallacies free card = stating opinions as opinions.
converting opinions to assertions is inviting readers to move the discussion to epistemology.
"I don't like rap, it's not musical to me" -> using the card!
"I don't like rap, it's not music" -> can't use the card! epistemology time! :(
Sheep, I'm just going to say this. If we resurrect our annual BertStock and after all this time, you finally agree to come, and you show up with nothing to play but a laptop, some guys are going to be VERY disappointed! ;D