The Watering Hole

Politics
273 posts
Under $300 a month for all that?  Holy crap...  :-?

When I first moved up here, I was paying $11,200 a month on five different properties (I sold the sixth right before I moved).  Four of the payments were a lot higher than they could have been because I took out 7 year investment loans instead of a typical 30 year loan (you don't want to pay a lot of interest for investment property).  I don't miss that stress.
charger — Jul 21, 2014[quote author=Hookbender link=1404776484/75#93 date=1405974315]

My mortage consist of $153.62 per month towards principle, and $144.84..... per month .... in taxes and insurance.

I get a little heated when it comes to government. I wish Americans had the time and resources, and especially the will, to tell the government to fuck the hell off. I really do! I'm sick of all of em.


The property tax part goes to your local community, not the federal government. The insurance is so you can rebuild your house if it burns down. Why are you heated about that?  You can certainly choose I assume not to insure your house if you own it outright.  But you don't... someone else bought it, and now you are paying them for it.  They certainly have a right to cover the cost of it if they are left holding the bag, don't they?


What bag? They still have a very valuable asset. The only thing they could bitch about is profit/interest got cut short. Otherwise called local government. They are still taxes man. The point was, right now, other people get as much money as I'm actually paying towd the debt every month.  
ironsheep — Jul 21, 2014oh, you're the guy who knows the truth? I should ask you more questions...


No smart ass, you shouldn't ask more questions.  ;D

Let me rephrase.... I now know to look a little deeper than the news channels before I form an opinion. Hows that?
CraigBert — Jul 21, 2014Under $300 a month for all that?  Holy crap...  :-?

When I first moved up here, I was paying $11,200 a month on five different properties (I sold the sixth right before I moved).  Four of the payments were a lot higher than they could have been because I took out 7 year investment loans instead of a typical 30 year loan (you don't want to pay a lot of interest for investment property).  I don't miss that stress.


Look, It's relative to where you live. I don't make a six figure income. In fact, half of that. So I'm paying $300 interest, $150 principle, and 150 taxes and insurance. Then $650 child support because my wife decided to be a whore. I guess it was choice, pretty sure she wasn't born one.  :-/

Anyway, money for me is tight on a different scale. By far not a 6 figure income.
Not knocking it, I just didn't realize you could buy anything for that much.  Rents are pretty cheap up here and I'm not sure if I could even find a room to rent anywhere for $300 a month!
Hookbender — Jul 22, 2014[quote author=ironsheep link=1404776484/75#95 date=1405975982]oh, you're the guy who knows the truth? I should ask you more questions...


No smart ass, you shouldn't ask more questions.  ;D

Let me rephrase.... I now know to look a little deeper than the news channels before I form an opinion. Hows that?



I know what you meant... but how could I resist such a statement??   ;D

no need to explain yourself, was just ribbing ya.
Hookbender — Jul 22, 2014[quote author=CraigBert link=1404776484/100#100 date=1405981639]Under $300 a month for all that?  Holy crap...  :-?

When I first moved up here, I was paying $11,200 a month on five different properties (I sold the sixth right before I moved).  Four of the payments were a lot higher than they could have been because I took out 7 year investment loans instead of a typical 30 year loan (you don't want to pay a lot of interest for investment property).  I don't miss that stress.


Look, It's relative to where you live. I don't make a six figure income. In fact, half of that. So I'm paying $300 interest, $150 principle, and 150 taxes and insurance. Then $650 child support because my wife decided to be a whore. I guess it was choice, pretty sure she wasn't born one.  :-/

Anyway, money for me is tight on a different scale. By far not a 6 figure income.

I'm not sure I get the problem-- your taxes and interest are less than your principal+interest.  Over time the principal portion of the loan grows and the interest portion decreases, it starts 100-0 and ends 0-100.  I think my tax+insurance (escrow) is right around 1/4 of my total payment too. I'd think that's pretty standard.
ironsheep — Jul 22, 2014[quote author=Hookbender link=1404776484/100#102 date=1405996649][quote author=ironsheep link=1404776484/75#95 date=1405975982]oh, you're the guy who knows the truth? I should ask you more questions...


No smart ass, you shouldn't ask more questions.  ;D

Let me rephrase.... I now know to look a little deeper than the news channels before I form an opinion. Hows that?



I know what you meant... but how could I resist such a statement??   ;D

no need to explain yourself, was just ribbing ya.

8-)
charger — Jul 22, 2014[quote author=Hookbender link=1404776484/100#103 date=1405997107][quote author=CraigBert link=1404776484/100#100 date=1405981639]Under $300 a month for all that?  Holy crap...  :-?

When I first moved up here, I was paying $11,200 a month on five different properties (I sold the sixth right before I moved).  Four of the payments were a lot higher than they could have been because I took out 7 year investment loans instead of a typical 30 year loan (you don't want to pay a lot of interest for investment property).  I don't miss that stress.


Look, It's relative to where you live. I don't make a six figure income. In fact, half of that. So I'm paying $300 interest, $150 principle, and 150 taxes and insurance. Then $650 child support because my wife decided to be a whore. I guess it was choice, pretty sure she wasn't born one.  :-/

Anyway, money for me is tight on a different scale. By far not a 6 figure income.

I'm not sure I get the problem-- your taxes and interest are less than your principal+interest.  Over time the principal portion of the loan grows and the interest portion decreases, it starts 100-0 and ends 0-100.  I think my tax+insurance (escrow) is right around 1/4 of my total payment too. I'd think that's pretty standard.

It's not necessarily a problem. I just stated the facts. I have that other thread on my mind, the sm house experiment.
WALMART reprezent, reprezent zent!!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/31/richest-person-in-each-state_n_5617993.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013&ir=Politics


There are some vast differences fo sho
Why don't you and Charger shut Walmart down. then you won't have to worry about how much they make. Then you can bitch about all the people they employed not getting enough free shit from the government and government making to much money. At this point, considering the unemployment rate and economy.... and tax revenue..... you need to become religious and pray to Walmart. Considering all the other problems we have, I can't imagine how Walmart got to the top of your list.
Hookbender — Jul 08, 2014Seems to me like this article is a bit one sided. Makes sense, but higher wages forced on companies like Walmart etc will surely also have negative effects. Right? And I'm not so sure putting more money in these uneducated people's hand will do them that much good. I think our schools should be training our children how to handle money. Until then, i'd be in favor of companies making handling money be part of their training. You can give many uneducated people $500,000 and that shit would be gone in a year or 2 and they'd be right back to where they started. Not much will ever take the place of education. Interesting read.






You brought them up...
You've got no problem cutting 210,000 jobs at GM, which make an average of $29/hour.  

But the idea of losing 1.4 million jobs that pay $9/hour makes you really feel for the plight of Walmart, and those 3 multi-billionaires who control it, whose sole innovation in life was being born with the right last name?  

Yeah, I'd shut that fucking company down.  Why not? What do they do that's productive?  They employee a ton of people in jobs so poorly paid they make 80% of their employees "working poor" and eligible for federal assistance.  They force out huge swaths of legitimate "small businesses" who can't afford to buy 8 million widgets at a time--and everyone loves "small business," right?  They homogenize the country and the landscape, providing us with massive piles of cheap shitty Chinese goods.  What's not to like?
charger — Aug 01, 2014You've got no problem cutting 210,000 jobs at GM, which make an average of $29/hour.  

But the idea of losing 1.4 million jobs that pay $9/hour makes you really feel for the plight of Walmart, and those 3 multi-billionaires who control it, whose sole innovation in life was being born with the right last name?  

Yeah, I'd shut that fucking company down.  Why not? What do they do that's productive?  They employee a ton of people in jobs so poorly paid they make 80% of their employees "working poor" and eligible for federal assistance.  They force out huge swaths of legitimate "small businesses" who can't afford to buy 8 million widgets at a time--and everyone loves "small business," right?  They homogenize the country and the landscape, providing us with massive piles of cheap shitty Chinese goods.  What's not to like?


Holy shit. What an awful way of looking at that. What an awful way of looking at success in America. Any.... ANY.... of the owners of any business, for the most part if they strive for success at all, pretty much has the goal... now get this.... to do exactly what Walmart did and is doing. I'm talking about the owners being successful. The business being successful.

Now, is it how they are successful, and obtained success, that bothers you? Is it just Walmart? How about Lowes, or Dollar Stores, or Walgreens Pharmacy? Are you arguing to raise the min wage based on the stats of Walmart alone without considering the consequences to other big business? Or small business, for that matter? Surely, surely, you can't hate Walmart that much? Even small businesses do the same thing on a smaller scale.  What are you suggesting? Government go to every business in America, find out how much profit is being made and compare that  with how much their employees make? That's communist. Every big business has almost done the same thing to small businesses. Why do you hate Walmart so much? Sounds like you hate business, entirely.

You want Walmart to survive one of their employes falling asleep, driving their truck with their shit in it, and killing someone, or would you prefer the business be shut down by the forthcoming lawsuit?

I just don't think it makes any sense to base your opinion on raising the min wage on the stats of Walmart. I don't get it.



I'm unaware of anything illegal about how Walmart pays employees.  
"You've got no problem cutting 210,000 jobs at GM, which make an average of $29/hour."  

Oh I've got a problem with it, I don't like it. At all. I don't like failure period, by any company pretty much. But you don't see government handing out billions to mom and pop stores, do ya? Because Walmart came to town.....

I'm for success and failure.

You must be in favor of big,  powerful, governments. Is that true?  ;D
Hookbender — Aug 01, 2014"You've got no problem cutting 210,000 jobs at GM, which make an average of $29/hour."  

Oh I've got a problem with it, I don't like it. At all. I don't like failure period, by any company pretty much. But you don't see government handing out billions to mom and pop stores, do ya? Because Walmart came to town.....

I'm for success and failure.

You must be in favor of big,  powerful, governments. Is that true?  ;D


Dude, seriously, you think our government doesn't make loans to small businesses?  How deep is your head buried in the sand? You've never heard of a small business administration loan?  You've never heard a political speech?  Every politician loves small business... supposedly.  

http://www.sba.gov/category/navigation-structure/loans-grants

Yeah, Walmart sucks.  They sell shitty Chinese crap for next to nothing, filling our homes with garbage.  They pay their workers squat, merely so they can make more profit.  They crush the competition then hire all the workers over from their crushed competitors for a fraction of what they made before.  Are other companies as bad as Walmart?  I'm sure they are.  Do they thrive by destroying every other legitimate business in the surrounding area, especially in smaller towns?  Not that I've seen.  Walmart's business model is about selling everything, selling it cheaper, and making consumers have no reason to go to a smaller store that can't afford to compete.  Is that America?  Sure.  But as consumers, we aren't forced to endorse it.  The government can't make us shop at Walmart.  So I don't.  Fuck 'em.  

What the government can do is a set a federal minimum wage that is higher than the fucking poverty line.  If you have a problem with that, sorry.  I don't think it's right to be able to legally pay people starvation wages, and I'll never think it's right.  Our government has no rule in the Constitution that says we have to be moral, or treat workers with compassion or kindness.  That's up to humans.  Anyone can choose to be an asshole.  Walmart, collectively, has chosen to be a big fucking asshole, ass-raping the shit out of communities, workers, and the American landscape.  Sure, it's legal.  That doesn't mean I have to support it.  Lots of shitty things are legal, do you support them all?  
"It's just business, right?"

The 'Merican mantra
charger — Aug 01, 2014[quote author=Hookbender link=1404776484/100#114 date=1406920946]"You've got no problem cutting 210,000 jobs at GM, which make an average of $29/hour."  

Oh I've got a problem with it, I don't like it. At all. I don't like failure period, by any company pretty much. But you don't see government handing out billions to mom and pop stores, do ya? Because Walmart came to town.....

I'm for success and failure.

You must be in favor of big,  powerful, governments. Is that true?  ;D


Dude, seriously, you think our government doesn't make loans to small businesses?  How deep is your head buried in the sand? You've never heard of a small business administration loan?  You've never heard a political speech?  Every politician loves small business... supposedly.  

http://www.sba.gov/category/navigation-structure/loans-grants

Yeah, Walmart sucks.  They sell shitty Chinese crap for next to nothing, filling our homes with garbage.  They pay their workers squat, merely so they can make more profit.  They crush the competition then hire all the workers over from their crushed competitors for a fraction of what they made before.  Are other companies as bad as Walmart?  I'm sure they are.  Do they thrive by destroying every other legitimate business in the surrounding area, especially in smaller towns?  Not that I've seen.  Walmart's business model is about selling everything, selling it cheaper, and making consumers have no reason to go to a smaller store that can't afford to compete.  Is that America?  Sure.  But as consumers, we aren't forced to endorse it.  The government can't make us shop at Walmart.  So I don't.  Fuck 'em.  

What the government can do is a set a federal minimum wage that is higher than the fucking poverty line.  If you have a problem with that, sorry.  I don't think it's right to be able to legally pay people starvation wages, and I'll never think it's right.  Our government has no rule in the Constitution that says we have to be moral, or treat workers with compassion or kindness.  That's up to humans.  Anyone can choose to be an asshole.  Walmart, collectively, has chosen to be a big fucking asshole, ass-raping the shit out of communities, workers, and the American landscape.  Sure, it's legal.  That doesn't mean I have to support it.  Lots of shitty things are legal, do you support them all?  

Loans to small businesses, some. but that isn't what we're discussing. When a small business is about to fail, what happens? They fail. Government doesn't seem to give a shit about those folks. And when they fail because walmart comes in, they still don't care. If I were you, and had your complaints, I'd be focused on who the government helps. And, that would be your chosen enemy, big time business. be pissed at government.

Walmart sells cheap shit, cheap. So what. So does Family Dollar. When Lowes comes into town, do you complain then? Do you shop there or Home Depot? When Walgreens comes in and put the local pharmacy guy out of business, do you complain about that? They're doing the same thing. you should be. Walmart isn't alone when it comes to crushing family owned small businesses. GM isn't a good comparison. Completely different situation and you know it.

The thing your missing here is these people chose to work at Walmart. No one forced them to work their. No one forces people to shop their either. If you want a bicycle for your child, you have a choice. Go to Walmart and get one for under a $100 bucks, or go to the local bike shop and get one for $500 bucks. Again, your choice. So, whats the problem? It's liberal, free choice. you should be happy.

I got inch thick book in the mail today from Ikea. Talk about cheap shit. However, I'm sitting at a table right now that came from their. $50 bucks, nothing fancy, but big. I use it in my office. When I got divorced, I was tight on money and needed a desk. It will do. Works fine. I knew it was cheap shit, I paid a cheap shit price, and i'm happy with it. I don't think your argument makes much sense. Walmart isn't deceiving people. The people know what Walmart sells. they know what they are getting paid before they start their job and they agreed to it.

I don't have a problem with the foundation of your argument. I have a problem with the evidence you give for implementing the higher min wage based entirely on Walmarts business plan. I have a problem cutting off my nose despite my face. Raising the min wage and putting more small businesses out of business isn't helping, it's hurting.


Ikea listened in
What message? What are you talking about? "Yer not down to"? What language is that?

Ikea still sells crap. Not sure what the point of your post is relative to the discussion. Their min wage isn't 15 dollars per hour. Accross the board as Charger wants. If they chose to do so on their own, thats fine. But it shouldn't be law that since Ikea chose to pay it's employees a little more, that every business should do the same.

I haven't seen any logical reason, or any evidence, that justifies a $15 dollar per hour hike in the min wage. Maybe that should happen in California because of the extremely high cost of living their. Do that in Alabama and half the businesses will shut down. And those businesses that shut down will be the middle class family owned businesses that we need so bad.

I live in Charlotte NC. Try to make it working 40 hours a week on $10 bucks an hour. Good luck with that. Their pay rate is pointless.

I'd hate to be the one who made the decision to raise the min wage to 15 per hour, entirely because I hate Walmart, and have to explain that to small business.

I didn't say it was a bad decision to work for min wage at Walmart, for example. I said bad decisions led to that situation. You should be working for fox news. your using their same no spin, but storms of spin actually, method of communicating.

Again, business can up their pay on their own. Thats fine with me. Example of that doesn't justify making it law for every business.

I find it hard to believe that you can't see the harm that would do to sm business. Forget Walmart and come up with something that will help sm business. Forget Walmart and address the high cost of living in California. Put emphasis on education and helping people get off government assistance. Your time and efforts will be rewarded in those areas way more than killing the already struggling sm business that needs the help. The next time, and their will be a next time, GM and Dodge need a bail out, point the bailout towards sm businesses. They deserve it. Let the banks etc fail that raped the people to begin with. Instead of helping them stay open. And the people said, amen and amen.

When it come down to the nut cuttin, he he, you don't have a reason to hate walmart. Not as far as I can see, anyway.
Hookbender — Aug 02, 2014What message? What are you talking about? "Yer not down to"? What language is that?

Ikea still sells crap. Not sure what the point of your post is relative to the discussion. Their min wage isn't 15 dollars per hour. Accross the board as Charger wants. If they chose to do so on their own, thats fine. But it shouldn't be law that since Ikea chose to pay it's employees a little more, that every business should do the same.

I haven't seen any logical reason, or any evidence, that justifies a $15 dollar per hour hike in the min wage. Maybe that should happen in California because of the extremely high cost of living their. Do that in Alabama and half the businesses will shut down. And those businesses that shut down will be the middle class family owned businesses that we need so bad.


The point of the original article is that money doesn't trickle down, it trickles up.  The middle class suffers when the lower class is squeezed more and more by "it's just business, right?" practices like 30hr week and worse if you look into their practices.  The rich person cannot and will not make up for the spending of the masses on middle and lower class goods and services.  Why would a rich cat trickle?  He would make it rain...po folk trickle ALL of their money back in and up.  Bad decisions you say, can't hold onto money you say...the people who keep the lights on in the mom n' pop shops you talk about as well as the huge corps themselves.  The middle class order their shit off the net, wanna talk about family business killers, talk to Amazon...



I live in Charlotte NC. Try to make it working 40 hours a week on $10 bucks an hour. Good luck with that. Their pay rate is pointless.

I'd hate to be the one who made the decision to raise the min wage to 15 per hour, entirely because I hate Walmart, and have to explain that to small business.

I didn't say it was a bad decision to work for min wage at Walmart, for example. I said bad decisions led to that situation. You should be working for fox news. your using their same no spin, but storms of spin actually, method of communicating.


Ahh, I see.  The hero corp takes in all the little miscreants and down on their luck bums and out of the good of it's heart gives them a paycheck.  It may not be any fancy "living wage" type amount or anything but do people who make "bad decisions" and don't get educated deserve more salary gifts?  Look, what I'm getting at is that the corporation is super successful, but not the people who work there, they are failures.


Again, business can up their pay on their own. Thats fine with me. Example of that doesn't justify making it law for every business.

I find it hard to believe that you can't see the harm that would do to sm business. Forget Walmart and come up with something that will help sm business. Forget Walmart and address the high cost of living in California. Put emphasis on education and helping people get off government assistance. Your time and efforts will be rewarded in those areas way more than killing the already struggling sm business that needs the help. The next time, and their will be a next time, GM and Dodge need a bail out, point the bailout towards sm businesses. They deserve it. Let the banks etc fail that raped the people to begin with. Instead of helping them stay open. And the people said, amen and amen.

When it come down to the nut cuttin, he he, you don't have a reason to hate walmart. Not as far as I can see, anyway.


There are all sorts costs of living in CA, it's huge and every level is represented.  I have never been to Walmart.  GM was bailed out at the request of the rest of the car companies because of the damage it would have caused the related companies they all rely on.  Play out what you think would have happened if GM went down.  Play out what you think would have happened if the banks went down.  I'm not saying to be happy about these events but where are you going with "let them fail"?  I'm pretty sure had it gone that way on both of those counts you would be singing a different tune and it would still "all be gov's fault"...


It's very simple to play out GM going down. GM goes down, Tesla takes over their facilities. Or other car companies get a leg up. Or, they just go away. Big banks go away and smaller ones, plural, take up their slack with big smiles on their face and a clean record. Seems you've been programed to be scared to death of big business failure.

Nothing your saying justifies raising the min wage because you don't like Walmart.

This is pretty much gone full circle. I don't mind being proven wrong or persuaded to change my mind based on logical, reasonable information. Sprinkled in the mix, a few facts. But, saying we need to raise the min wage based on someone not liking Walmart isn't gonna cut it. Their pay rates are legal. They aren't doing anything wrong. It's very dangerous to up min wage based on one business practice. Again, no one is forced to shop at, or work for Walmart. Same with Lowes, Home Depot, etc.
"Ahh, I see.  The hero corp takes in all the little miscreants and down on their luck bums and out of the good of it's heart gives them a paycheck.  It may not be any fancy "living wage" type amount or anything but do people who make "bad decisions" and don't get educated deserve more salary gifts?  Look, what I'm getting at is that the corporation is super successful, but not the people who work there, they are failures. "

In no way, none, is it the fault of a successful corp that the people working there are failures. In no way is it justified to punish a successful corp for success by raising min wage.
Hookbender — Aug 02, 2014It's very simple to play out GM going down. GM goes down, Tesla takes over their facilities. Or other car companies get a leg up. Or, they just go away. Big banks go away and smaller ones, plural, take up their slack with big smiles on their face and a clean record. Seems you've been programed to be scared to death of big business failure.

Nothing your saying justifies raising the min wage because you don't like Walmart.

This is pretty much gone full circle. I don't mind being proven wrong or persuaded to change my mind based on logical, reasonable information. Sprinkled in the mix, a few facts. But, saying we need to raise the min wage based on someone not liking Walmart isn't gonna cut it. Their pay rates are legal. They aren't doing anything wrong. It's very dangerous to up min wage based on one business practice. Again, no one is forced to shop at, or work for Walmart. Same with Lowes, Home Depot, etc.





Ahhh, I get it now, K.I.S.S., because thinking hurts.  No ramifications?  Was Tesla's gov bailout ok?  Some banks did go down and were absorbed into now even bigger banks.  Would it have been more and more little banks or like two massive banks?  What would a run on the banks do?  They fought that in the media hard right then.  The sky was falling and the jobs were next
Hookbender — Aug 02, 2014"Ahh, I see.  The hero corp takes in all the little miscreants and down on their luck bums and out of the good of it's heart gives them a paycheck.  It may not be any fancy "living wage" type amount or anything but do people who make "bad decisions" and don't get educated deserve more salary gifts?  Look, what I'm getting at is that the corporation is super successful, but not the people who work there, they are failures. "

In no way, none, is it the fault of a successful corp that the people working there are failures. In no way is it justified to punish a successful corp for success by raising min wage.


Best yet, my man!!!  Punish those failure workers!!!  What's up with the "punishment" buzzword anyway?  Sounds like something sadists would come up with... he h hehhh
BINGEWOOD — Aug 02, 2014[quote author=Hookbender link=1404776484/100#121 date=1406998585]It's very simple to play out GM going down. GM goes down, Tesla takes over their facilities. Or other car companies get a leg up. Or, they just go away. Big banks go away and smaller ones, plural, take up their slack with big smiles on their face and a clean record. Seems you've been programed to be scared to death of big business failure.

Nothing your saying justifies raising the min wage because you don't like Walmart.

This is pretty much gone full circle. I don't mind being proven wrong or persuaded to change my mind based on logical, reasonable information. Sprinkled in the mix, a few facts. But, saying we need to raise the min wage based on someone not liking Walmart isn't gonna cut it. Their pay rates are legal. They aren't doing anything wrong. It's very dangerous to up min wage based on one business practice. Again, no one is forced to shop at, or work for Walmart. Same with Lowes, Home Depot, etc.





Ahhh, I get it now, K.I.S.S., because thinking hurts.  No ramifications?  Was Tesla's gov bailout ok?  Some banks did go down and were absorbed into now even bigger banks.  Would it have been more and more little banks or like two massive banks?  What would a run on the banks do?  They fought that in the media hard right then.  The sky was falling and the jobs were next
BINGEWOOD — Aug 02, 2014[quote author=Hookbender link=1404776484/100#122 date=1406998945]"Ahh, I see.  The hero corp takes in all the little miscreants and down on their luck bums and out of the good of it's heart gives them a paycheck.  It may not be any fancy "living wage" type amount or anything but do people who make "bad decisions" and don't get educated deserve more salary gifts?  Look, what I'm getting at is that the corporation is super successful, but not the people who work there, they are failures. "

In no way, none, is it the fault of a successful corp that the people working there are failures. In no way is it justified to punish a successful corp for success by raising min wage.


Best yet, my man!!!  Punish those failure workers!!!  What's up with the "punishment" buzzword anyway?  Sounds like something sadists would come up with... he h hehhh


Not raising the min wage isn't punishment for anyone. Raising the min wage isn't justified at the moment. If you did raise the min wage, it would hurt small business. Raising the min wage because of Walmarts business plan, which has been successful thus far, would only be punishment to small business for a small labor force at Walmart that are likely uneducated and not capable or trained to be able to do higher paying jobs. So, to help those folks, how about we train them and provide them a plan to work their way into higher paying jobs with the skills to be successful. That would be money well spent. Giving them a little more money to afford cigs and beer isn't gonna help the problem.

Small business made this country. And you want to destroy that because you don't like Walmart? Come on man. You can do better than that. Take your own advice and think about it.
"I'm ok, you're ok"
Hookbender — Aug 02, 2014[quote author=BINGEWOOD link=1404776484/100#124 date=1407000121][quote author=Hookbender link=1404776484/100#122 date=1406998945]"Ahh, I see.  The hero corp takes in all the little miscreants and down on their luck bums and out of the good of it's heart gives them a paycheck.  It may not be any fancy "living wage" type amount or anything but do people who make "bad decisions" and don't get educated deserve more salary gifts?  Look, what I'm getting at is that the corporation is super successful, but not the people who work there, they are failures. "

In no way, none, is it the fault of a successful corp that the people working there are failures. In no way is it justified to punish a successful corp for success by raising min wage.


Best yet, my man!!!  Punish those failure workers!!!  What's up with the "punishment" buzzword anyway?  Sounds like something sadists would come up with... he h hehhh


Not raising the min wage isn't punishment for anyone. Raising the min wage isn't justified at the moment. If you did raise the min wage, it would hurt small business. Raising the min wage because of Walmarts business plan, which has been successful thus far, would only be punishment to small business for a small labor force at Walmart that are likely uneducated and not capable or trained to be able to do higher paying jobs. So, to help those folks, how about we train them and provide them a plan to work their way into higher paying jobs with the skills to be successful. That would be money well spent. Giving them a little more money to afford cigs and beer isn't gonna help the problem.

Small business made this country. And you want to destroy that because you don't like Walmart? Come on man. You can do better than that. Take your own advice and think about it.


"Small business made this country?" Really?  You seem to spend all your time defending big ones.  It seems to me they employ a lot more people, too.  Don't get me wrong, I love the small business, but you can bet your ass as soon as the first american business was able to knock out its competitors and take over its customers and add a second location, it did.  Big business has been around as long as America, and big business certainly built America.  Saving big business makes a lot more sense than you seem to imply.  For every GM, there are a thousand smaller businesses around it that supply parts and specialty equipment, 50,000 dealerships that provide living wage jobs.  The average worker at GM made $30/hour... yet you make an argument that we should let that kind of business fail.  Why? So we can have a lot more workers who are overqualified to stand at a cash register at Walmart?  

There's no amount of job training that's going to help the low wage worker get to where they need to be to make a big move up when they're past 30 or so.  If they don't already have skills in information technology, etc, they're fucked, and they're competing with kids who are 20 and grew up with smartphones and IT skills. It's easy to say this, because if you just look at the H1-B system, wherein we hire shitloads of very high-priced foreign workers to do jobs that Americans aren't qualified for, you can see the problem.  Every year a certain number of H1-Bs are made available and every year technology companies burn through them in a heartbeat.  We can't find American workers qualified to do at least a portion of the highly technical jobs out there, which is unfortunate.  Which makes it imperative that we provide jobs for middle to lower class people that pay money they can live on.  Or resign ourselves to increasing taxes on the wealthy and middle class to cover the salary gap between what lower wage workers are paid, and what it costs them to live.  Or we become India, with streets full of beggars.

You keep saying we need to educate our workers so they can move up.  What you ignore, and never answer, is that those jobs are still going to be there, and still need to be filled.  They are always going to be the largest part of the workforce.  Train some workers to do slightly higher paying jobs, and that just means walmart has more educated low-level workers. Those jobs will get filled because people need jobs, even if they are overqualified. Everybody can't work in high-paying jobs.  A lot of people are going to have to work in the service industry.  We could certainly give them some education, and then we'd have what, college-educated cashiers?  Seems a little pointless to me.  Just paying a higher bottom wage seems to make a lot more sense.  
charger — Aug 04, 2014[quote author=Hookbender link=1404776484/125#126 date=1407008868][quote author=BINGEWOOD link=1404776484/100#124 date=1407000121][quote author=Hookbender link=1404776484/100#122 date=1406998945]"Ahh, I see.  The hero corp takes in all the little miscreants and down on their luck bums and out of the good of it's heart gives them a paycheck.  It may not be any fancy "living wage" type amount or anything but do people who make "bad decisions" and don't get educated deserve more salary gifts?  Look, what I'm getting at is that the corporation is super successful, but not the people who work there, they are failures. "

In no way, none, is it the fault of a successful corp that the people working there are failures. In no way is it justified to punish a successful corp for success by raising min wage.


Best yet, my man!!!  Punish those failure workers!!!  What's up with the "punishment" buzzword anyway?  Sounds like something sadists would come up with... he h hehhh


Not raising the min wage isn't punishment for anyone. Raising the min wage isn't justified at the moment. If you did raise the min wage, it would hurt small business. Raising the min wage because of Walmarts business plan, which has been successful thus far, would only be punishment to small business for a small labor force at Walmart that are likely uneducated and not capable or trained to be able to do higher paying jobs. So, to help those folks, how about we train them and provide them a plan to work their way into higher paying jobs with the skills to be successful. That would be money well spent. Giving them a little more money to afford cigs and beer isn't gonna help the problem.

Small business made this country. And you want to destroy that because you don't like Walmart? Come on man. You can do better than that. Take your own advice and think about it.


"Small business made this country?" Really?  You seem to spend all your time defending big ones.  It seems to me they employ a lot more people, too.  Don't get me wrong, I love the small business, but you can bet your ass as soon as the first american business was able to knock out its competitors and take over its customers and add a second location, it did.  Big business has been around as long as America, and big business certainly built America.  Saving big business makes a lot more sense than you seem to imply.  For every GM, there are a thousand smaller businesses around it that supply parts and specialty equipment, 50,000 dealerships that provide living wage jobs.  The average worker at GM made $30/hour... yet you make an argument that we should let that kind of business fail.  Why? So we can have a lot more workers who are overqualified to stand at a cash register at Walmart?  

There's no amount of job training that's going to help the low wage worker get to where they need to be to make a big move up when they're past 30 or so.  If they don't already have skills in information technology, etc, they're fucked, and they're competing with kids who are 20 and grew up with smartphones and IT skills. It's easy to say this, because if you just look at the H1-B system, wherein we hire shitloads of very high-priced foreign workers to do jobs that Americans aren't qualified for, you can see the problem.  Every year a certain number of H1-Bs are made available and every year technology companies burn through them in a heartbeat.  We can't find American workers qualified to do at least a portion of the highly technical jobs out there, which is unfortunate.  Which makes it imperative that we provide jobs for middle to lower class people that pay money they can live on.  Or resign ourselves to increasing taxes on the wealthy and middle class to cover the salary gap between what lower wage workers are paid, and what it costs them to live.  Or we become India, with streets full of beggars.

You keep saying we need to educate our workers so they can move up.  What you ignore, and never answer, is that those jobs are still going to be there, and still need to be filled.  They are always going to be the largest part of the workforce.  Train some workers to do slightly higher paying jobs, and that just means walmart has more educated low-level workers. Those jobs will get filled because people need jobs, even if they are overqualified. Everybody can't work in high-paying jobs.  A lot of people are going to have to work in the service industry.  We could certainly give them some education, and then we'd have what, college-educated cashiers?  Seems a little pointless to me.  Just paying a higher bottom wage seems to make a lot more sense.  

In your first paragraph, you define pretty much what Walmart has done. They found a way to limit it's competition and grow as a company. Exactly what your complaining about. And they do employ a lot more people, correct again, just not in the manner you want them to as far as pay goes. The reason I'd let GM fail, is because they continue to fail, over and over again. If it were my decision, I would have given GM's facilities to Tesla, for example, and let them work their magic. Require Tesla to train and employ GM's labor force for those jobs at Tesla first. Tesla is the kind of cutting edge lagit car company we need right now. just imagine what they could do with the proper funding and facilities.

Look. I'm not talking about these people suddenly making a six figure income. If they are making $10 bucks an hour and have nothing to show for their time, show them how they could make $30 to $50k a years plus, simply managing a grocery store. just an example. When I say educate these people, I don't mean simply signing them up so they can get their GED. I'm talking teaching them how to manage money, an invaluable tool, give them a plan on how they can work their way at least into a nice apt or just out of the projects. Show them how to plan. Life skills are very important and imo very needed for people who are down on their luck and can't see any way out of their situation. And the education part goes farther than just a high school diploma or college degree in a specific field, as you know. If people are willing to become educated, there is no reason they shouldn't be afforded that, imo, necessity. At any age. With all due respect, I think your opinion is based to much on the conditions in California. You don't have to be a computer wiz in Alabama or many other states to make a decent living. Thats my point.

Yeah, your going to have lower paying jobs. So, Walmart does have lower paying jobs. I don't see your beef with Walmart. You don't complain about any other big retail stores that do basically the same thing, only Walmart. That stands out to me in your argument more than anything.
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=High_School_Diploma/Hourly_Rate/by_Employer

This is the pay scale, by the hour, for 3 huge companies based on the person having just a high school education. Home Depot is the worst of the 3 yet your not saying a word about them. Lowes top pay is close to Walmart. Not a word about them either. And this pay scale would indicate to me that achieving a $15 hour job at walmart or the other 2 is very realistic. So, why force every business in America to pay Walmarts top pay per hour because you don't like them? The fruit is hanging from the vine, people just have to have the determination to go get it. It takes sacrifice and time. There is no reason to GIVE people more money at these jobs if you have people that are not willing to sacrifice, work hard, and Earn more than they make currently.

I was transferred from one Winn Dixie store to another at one point. When I got their, if a customer dropped a jar of pickles on the floor, for example, and the cashier had no one in her line, she would get on the pa and request a clean up..... while she stands their with her/his thumb up their ass looking at it. First, it's a potential slip and fall lawsuit while it lays their. People like that are overpaid at the bottom of the pay scale. And you want to pay that idiot $15 per hour? Seriously? And these same people that stand around and bitch about not being paid more are the same people that bitch about doing something out of there hired purpose. Like this cashier having to clean up a spill, for example. Fuckers simply refuse to do it. And the problem is, you can't just fire someone for that. It ain't that easy. This is just a little real life babysitting bullshit people you have to deal with. Paying them more ain't gonna change things for long. That person will be doing the same shit once the $15 bucks per hour becomes the norm. That's how it works. At least if the fruit is their to EARN, the harder workers will grab it. And leave the baby's behind. In general, most of the people making low salaries, are earning that salary. Sure, probably some exceptions. In todays world too, making that top pay $15 per hour, plus having health insurance, plus access to 401k, ain't great, but if that is the fruit on the vine, it isn't all that bad. Outside of California, of course. I support not giving anyone anything in the work force but opportunity, what they do with that opportunity is dependent on them and their level of commitment. However, I do support rewarding a job well done. In that case extras were earned, not given. Huge difference.
Hookbender — Aug 05, 2014[quote author=charger link=1404776484/125#128 date=1407195190][quote author=Hookbender link=1404776484/125#126 date=1407008868][quote author=BINGEWOOD link=1404776484/100#124 date=1407000121][quote author=Hookbender link=1404776484/100#122 date=1406998945]"Ahh, I see.  The hero corp takes in all the little miscreants and down on their luck bums and out of the good of it's heart gives them a paycheck.  It may not be any fancy "living wage" type amount or anything but do people who make "bad decisions" and don't get educated deserve more salary gifts?  Look, what I'm getting at is that the corporation is super successful, but not the people who work there, they are failures. "

In no way, none, is it the fault of a successful corp that the people working there are failures. In no way is it justified to punish a successful corp for success by raising min wage.


Best yet, my man!!!  Punish those failure workers!!!  What's up with the "punishment" buzzword anyway?  Sounds like something sadists would come up with... he h hehhh


Not raising the min wage isn't punishment for anyone. Raising the min wage isn't justified at the moment. If you did raise the min wage, it would hurt small business. Raising the min wage because of Walmarts business plan, which has been successful thus far, would only be punishment to small business for a small labor force at Walmart that are likely uneducated and not capable or trained to be able to do higher paying jobs. So, to help those folks, how about we train them and provide them a plan to work their way into higher paying jobs with the skills to be successful. That would be money well spent. Giving them a little more money to afford cigs and beer isn't gonna help the problem.

Small business made this country. And you want to destroy that because you don't like Walmart? Come on man. You can do better than that. Take your own advice and think about it.


"Small business made this country?" Really?  You seem to spend all your time defending big ones.  It seems to me they employ a lot more people, too.  Don't get me wrong, I love the small business, but you can bet your ass as soon as the first american business was able to knock out its competitors and take over its customers and add a second location, it did.  Big business has been around as long as America, and big business certainly built America.  Saving big business makes a lot more sense than you seem to imply.  For every GM, there are a thousand smaller businesses around it that supply parts and specialty equipment, 50,000 dealerships that provide living wage jobs.  The average worker at GM made $30/hour... yet you make an argument that we should let that kind of business fail.  Why? So we can have a lot more workers who are overqualified to stand at a cash register at Walmart?  

There's no amount of job training that's going to help the low wage worker get to where they need to be to make a big move up when they're past 30 or so.  If they don't already have skills in information technology, etc, they're fucked, and they're competing with kids who are 20 and grew up with smartphones and IT skills. It's easy to say this, because if you just look at the H1-B system, wherein we hire shitloads of very high-priced foreign workers to do jobs that Americans aren't qualified for, you can see the problem.  Every year a certain number of H1-Bs are made available and every year technology companies burn through them in a heartbeat.  We can't find American workers qualified to do at least a portion of the highly technical jobs out there, which is unfortunate.  Which makes it imperative that we provide jobs for middle to lower class people that pay money they can live on.  Or resign ourselves to increasing taxes on the wealthy and middle class to cover the salary gap between what lower wage workers are paid, and what it costs them to live.  Or we become India, with streets full of beggars.

You keep saying we need to educate our workers so they can move up.  What you ignore, and never answer, is that those jobs are still going to be there, and still need to be filled.  They are always going to be the largest part of the workforce.  Train some workers to do slightly higher paying jobs, and that just means walmart has more educated low-level workers. Those jobs will get filled because people need jobs, even if they are overqualified. Everybody can't work in high-paying jobs.  A lot of people are going to have to work in the service industry.  We could certainly give them some education, and then we'd have what, college-educated cashiers?  Seems a little pointless to me.  Just paying a higher bottom wage seems to make a lot more sense.  

In your first paragraph, you define pretty much what Walmart has done. They found a way to limit it's competition and grow as a company. Exactly what your complaining about. And they do employ a lot more people, correct again, just not in the manner you want them to as far as pay goes. The reason I'd let GM fail, is because they continue to fail, over and over again. If it were my decision, I would have given GM's facilities to Tesla, for example, and let them work their magic. Require Tesla to train and employ GM's labor force for those jobs at Tesla first. Tesla is the kind of cutting edge lagit car company we need right now. just imagine what they could do with the proper funding and facilities.

Look. I'm not talking about these people suddenly making a six figure income. If they are making $10 bucks an hour and have nothing to show for their time, show them how they could make $30 to $50k a years plus, simply managing a grocery store. just an example. When I say educate these people, I don't mean simply signing them up so they can get their GED. I'm talking teaching them how to manage money, an invaluable tool, give them a plan on how they can work their way at least into a nice apt or just out of the projects. Show them how to plan. Life skills are very important and imo very needed for people who are down on their luck and can't see any way out of their situation. And the education part goes farther than just a high school diploma or college degree in a specific field, as you know. If people are willing to become educated, there is no reason they shouldn't be afforded that, imo, necessity. At any age. With all due respect, I think your opinion is based to much on the conditions in California. You don't have to be a computer wiz in Alabama or many other states to make a decent living. Thats my point.

Yeah, your going to have lower paying jobs. So, Walmart does have lower paying jobs. I don't see your beef with Walmart. You don't complain about any other big retail stores that do basically the same thing, only Walmart. That stands out to me in your argument more than anything.


Because there is a lot more wrong with Walmart than just the amount it pays its workers.  However, I use Walmart as an example because 80% of their workers qualify for federal assistance.  To me, that doesn't mean that Walmart is successful.  It means that Walmart is one of the largest recipients of corporate welfare in the country.  They aren't successful through smarts and business acumen.  They are successful because they game the system, and rely on the taxpayers to enable them to hire 80% of their workforce without having to pay them a living wage.  You seem to think that's fine.  I don't.  
Hookbender — Aug 05, 2014http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=High_School_Diploma/Hourly_Rate/by_Employer

This is the pay scale, by the hour, for 3 huge companies based on the person having just a high school education. Home Depot is the worst of the 3 yet your not saying a word about them. Lowes top pay is close to Walmart. Not a word about them either. And this pay scale would indicate to me that achieving a $15 hour job at walmart or the other 2 is very realistic. So, why force every business in America to pay Walmarts top pay per hour because you don't like them? The fruit is hanging from the vine, people just have to have the determination to go get it. It takes sacrifice and time. There is no reason to GIVE people more money at these jobs if you have people that are not willing to sacrifice, work hard, and Earn more than they make currently.

I was transferred from one Winn Dixie store to another at one point. When I got their, if a customer dropped a jar of pickles on the floor, for example, and the cashier had no one in her line, she would get on the pa and request a clean up..... while she stands their with her/his thumb up their ass looking at it. First, it's a potential slip and fall lawsuit while it lays their. People like that are overpaid at the bottom of the pay scale. And you want to pay that idiot $15 per hour? Seriously? And these same people that stand around and bitch about not being paid more are the same people that bitch about doing something out of there hired purpose. Like this cashier having to clean up a spill, for example. Fuckers simply refuse to do it. And the problem is, you can't just fire someone for that. It ain't that easy. This is just a little real life babysitting bullshit people you have to deal with. Paying them more ain't gonna change things for long. That person will be doing the same shit once the $15 bucks per hour becomes the norm. That's how it works. At least if the fruit is their to EARN, the harder workers will grab it. And leave the baby's behind. In general, most of the people making low salaries, are earning that salary. Sure, probably some exceptions. In todays world too, making that top pay $15 per hour, plus having health insurance, plus access to 401k, ain't great, but if that is the fruit on the vine, it isn't all that bad. Outside of California, of course. I support not giving anyone anything in the work force but opportunity, what they do with that opportunity is dependent on them and their level of commitment. However, I do support rewarding a job well done. In that case extras were earned, not given. Huge difference.


Look at it this way though:
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=High_School_Diploma/Hourly_Rate#by_Yearly_Sales

Average pay rate for companies selling over 500 million a year is $15.88.  Walmart sold 476 billion last year, yet 15.88 is the TOP of their range.  HD's yearly sales were 74 billion, and as your graph pointed out, their hourly starting wage is $1.21 more than Walmart--that's a $1500 difference yearly.  I'm not defending Home Depot here either, but it's a matter of size.  Why would I use as an example a company that sells $400 billion less a year, and starts their workers at $1.21 higher salary?  Does that seem like a better argument to you?

Walmart is 6+ X the size of Home Depot in sales.
Use anyone you want, is what I say. Most all larger businesses are doing the same thing as Walmart. Their pay isn't that much different. They have higher paying jobs too that only require a high school education. Target does the same thing. Their pay is just a bit more than walmart, but they do the same thing.

If you hate Walmart to the point you do, you should hate Lowes, Home Depot, and all the others as you do Walmart. If you have a family of 4 people and a man kills just the Dad, vs another man that killed all 4 members of another family, does it make the crime of murder and the hate of either man less or more? Not to me. just because Walmart is the biggest target of the things you dislike about them doesn't make the size of Home Depot less significant. It's the same thing on a smaller scale. I don't think a man that kills one child is any less deserving of the death penalty than another that killed 8 children. Little extreme example but you get what I'm saying.

I kinda agree with the premiss of your argument to want to help these people making low salaries. I just don't agree with the way you want to fix it.  

The pay is close to the same pretty much in all large business like the ones we mentioned. Go to Home Depot and count, on one isle, how many things say, made in China. They all do it. Go to Target and do the same. The stuff you complain about is all over these types businesses. theirs no telling where half the shit in the car you drive is made. I mean damn. you think it's required to pay a man $30 and hour to put lug nuts on wheels all day? And people wonder why cars cost so much? A car comes down a assembly line and you tighten 4 or 5 bolts with a power tool, all day. And you get paid $30 bucks an hour to do that. Thats not skilled labor.  ;D
Hookbender — Aug 05, 2014Use anyone you want, is what I say. Most all larger businesses are doing the same thing as Walmart. Their pay isn't that much different. They have higher paying jobs too that only require a high school education. Target does the same thing. Their pay is just a bit more than walmart, but they do the same thing.

If you hate Walmart to the point you do, you should hate Lowes, Home Depot, and all the others as you do Walmart. If you have a family of 4 people and a man kills just the Dad, vs another man that killed all 4 members of another family, does it make the crime of murder and the hate of either man less or more? Not to me. just because Walmart is the biggest target of the things you dislike about them doesn't make the size of Home Depot less significant. It's the same thing on a smaller scale. I don't think a man that kills one child is any less deserving of the death penalty than another that killed 8 children. Little extreme example but you get what I'm saying.

I kinda agree with the premiss of your argument to want to help these people making low salaries. I just don't agree with the way you want to fix it.  

The pay is close to the same pretty much in all large business like the ones we mentioned. Go to Home Depot and count, on one isle, how many things say, made in China. They all do it. Go to Target and do the same. The stuff you complain about is all over these types businesses. theirs no telling where half the shit in the car you drive is made. I mean damn. you think it's required to pay a man $30 and hour to put lug nuts on wheels all day? And people wonder why cars cost so much? A car comes down a assembly line and you tighten 4 or 5 bolts with a power tool, all day. And you get paid $30 bucks an hour to do that. Thats not skilled labor.  ;D


So your argument is that those people should make less too?  Man, you really want people to succeed, don't you.
We need a reset. Shit is out of control. I do want people to succeed. Want to know why poor folks can't afford a new GM car? Could one of the problems be close to the same thing your arguing for in this min wage increase?

Labor Unions forcing high pay for it's GM workers, maybe?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/05/20/what-explains-gms-problems-with-the-uaw/

So, there is actual evidence, sort of, of what happens when you "over pay" workers in a large business. Labor Unions forcing high pay for GM workers = extremely over priced product. And I don't have mention the product isn't any better, and sometimes worse, than it's competitors. Basically, the people ain't worth $75 per hour and thier vehicles aren't worth what we have to pay for them. That = the government bailing out a failure every 10 or so years.

So I assume your in favor of these shit hole labor unions that ruin companies as well? They do the same thing your wanting to do. Force high wages so people can live better and all that crap. Better benefits blah blah blah...until.... your GM. And the bubble burst. Every 10 years or so. You want to add Walmart to the list? Mabe Target too. Hell, we'll just bail out everyone. All big businesses. They deserve it, their paying high wages.  ;D
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/05/31/after-101-years-why-gm-failed/
"Compared to its toughest competitors -- like Toyota Motor Co. (TM) -- GM's cars were poorly designed and built, took too long to manufacture at costs that were too high, and as a result, fewer people bought them, leaving GM with excess production capacity."

Pretty much sums up the point of my previous post, doesn't it.
Doesn't explain why, when you go to buy a car that's not build by a union, it's just as expensive.  All cars are expensive.  

I would definitely like to see the phrase "working poor" phased out.  The idea that a person can work full time at a job in this country and be incredibly poor seems shitty to me.  Seems you don't care if they're poor, and think that education will make them all get rich.  In my mind, nobody needs a college degree to work at WalMart, or Home Depot, or whatever your approved large retailer is.  But if EVERYONE had a college degree, we would still have a vast majority of jobs that were minimum wage.  What would we do then?  They'd still need to be filled.
Hookbender — Aug 06, 2014 "Compared to its toughest competitors -- like Toyota Motor Co. (TM) -- GM's cars were poorly designed and built, took too long to manufacture at costs that were too high, and as a result, fewer people bought them, leaving GM with excess production capacity."

Pretty much sums up the point of my previous post, doesn't it.



Sure, if you ignore the rest of the list and make too expensive just = union...
charger — Aug 06, 2014Doesn't explain why, when you go to buy a car that's not build by a union, it's just as expensive.  All cars are expensive.  

I would definitely like to see the phrase "working poor" phased out.  The idea that a person can work full time at a job in this country and be incredibly poor seems shitty to me.  Seems you don't care if they're poor, and think that education will make them all get rich.  In my mind, nobody needs a college degree to work at WalMart, or Home Depot, or whatever your approved large retailer is.  But if EVERYONE had a college degree, we would still have a vast majority of jobs that were minimum wage.  What would we do then?  They'd still need to be filled.


No need to discuss this with you if your not gonna pay attention to what I say in my post.
charger — Aug 06, 2014Doesn't explain why, when you go to buy a car that's not build by a union, it's just as expensive.  All cars are expensive.  

I would definitely like to see the phrase "working poor" phased out.  The idea that a person can work full time at a job in this country and be incredibly poor seems shitty to me.  Seems you don't care if they're poor, and think that education will make them all get rich.  In my mind, nobody needs a college degree to work at WalMart, or Home Depot, or whatever your approved large retailer is.  But if EVERYONE had a college degree, we would still have a vast majority of jobs that were minimum wage.  What would we do then?  They'd still need to be filled.



Ahh, what the hell.

I'll just turn your statements back to you. Working poor, poor, strugglin, whatever. So, if a person works 40 hours a week they should be able to afford a 3br 2b middle class home, have a car per person, free healthcare, be bailed out if they go bankrupt, etc etc.? Wait, your leaving out free dental care, manicures, blowjobs, and free...... pot.

We aren't talking about "my approved" retailer. We're talking about your disapproval of the retailer named Walmart. That part isn't worthy of a response. No where, none, 0, did I suggest anyone should have a college degree to work at any retailer you mentioned or the ones you didn't mention. The rest doesn't make sense.

Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't have responded.
Hookbender — Aug 07, 2014[quote author=charger link=1404776484/125#138 date=1407368709]Doesn't explain why, when you go to buy a car that's not build by a union, it's just as expensive.  All cars are expensive.  

I would definitely like to see the phrase "working poor" phased out.  The idea that a person can work full time at a job in this country and be incredibly poor seems shitty to me.  Seems you don't care if they're poor, and think that education will make them all get rich.  In my mind, nobody needs a college degree to work at WalMart, or Home Depot, or whatever your approved large retailer is.  But if EVERYONE had a college degree, we would still have a vast majority of jobs that were minimum wage.  What would we do then?  They'd still need to be filled.


No need to discuss this with you if your not gonna pay attention to what I say in my post.

That's alright by me, since you're not discussing the topic anyway.  I'm still on the $15 minimum wage. You've redirected the discussion all the way over to unions. Kind of a classic conservative redirect.  I still think the $15 minimum wage is a great idea.  And no, I don't think unions are evil, I know quite a few people who have benefited from having them negotiate contracts and fair working conditions.  Along with the massive influence they had on the rise of good working conditions throughout US history.  Of course you can pick out an example of a sucky union.  I can also pick out examples of sucky corporations.  

In the end, what would matter most to people, in my opinion, is if they weren't working full time to be dirt poor.
charger — Aug 07, 2014[quote author=Hookbender link=1404776484/125#140 date=1407445301][quote author=charger link=1404776484/125#138 date=1407368709]Doesn't explain why, when you go to buy a car that's not build by a union, it's just as expensive.  All cars are expensive.  

I would definitely like to see the phrase "working poor" phased out.  The idea that a person can work full time at a job in this country and be incredibly poor seems shitty to me.  Seems you don't care if they're poor, and think that education will make them all get rich.  In my mind, nobody needs a college degree to work at WalMart, or Home Depot, or whatever your approved large retailer is.  But if EVERYONE had a college degree, we would still have a vast majority of jobs that were minimum wage.  What would we do then?  They'd still need to be filled.


No need to discuss this with you if your not gonna pay attention to what I say in my post.

That's alright by me, since you're not discussing the topic anyway.  I'm still on the $15 minimum wage. You've redirected the discussion all the way over to unions. Kind of a classic conservative redirect.  I still think the $15 minimum wage is a great idea.  And no, I don't think unions are evil, I know quite a few people who have benefited from having them negotiate contracts and fair working conditions.  Along with the massive influence they had on the rise of good working conditions throughout US history.  Of course you can pick out an example of a sucky union.  I can also pick out examples of sucky corporations.  

In the end, what would matter most to people, in my opinion, is if they weren't working full time to be dirt poor.


All related and wasn't a attempted redirect. I questioned whether raising the min wage to $15 per hour "would hurt COMPANIES.... LIKE, LIKE, like...... Walmart. Shortly after you announce your hatred for Walmart and your refusal to shop there for the reasons you gave. And it went on from there. You directed the main subject of the discussion, focused and huge spotlight on Walmart. If your announcing this in your thread, I should be able to address your statement. No foul there on my part.

Can't say anything good about unions. It's obvious you never worked in retail enough to see P&L statements from a retailer like we're discussing.
WalMart is also the focus of the original article.  It's notable to me that they employ more people than anyone else besides the federal government, yet pay them so little that 80% of them qualify for government assistance.  Imagine if we could get all those people off federal assistance, by having their employers pay them enough not to qualify for it.  I thought conservatives hated welfare?
charger — Aug 07, 2014WalMart is also the focus of the original article.  It's notable to me that they employ more people than anyone else besides the federal government, yet pay them so little that 80% of them qualify for government assistance.  Imagine if we could get all those people off federal assistance, by having their employers pay them enough not to qualify for it.  I thought conservatives hated welfare?


Good point, kinda. Imagine if we quit giving billions of dollars to other countries a year and took care of our own people first. Imagine that. You could probably take the iron dome thing away from Israel and all the money it took to operate it and give it to these people and be spot on. then Israel would be forced to eliminate all the "terrorist" organizations that were shooting rockets into their country simply because they "hate" them and a flawed religious interpretation, and end that crap. Imagine what would happen it Jesus came back. Imagine all the people......Sing it brother!

I don't concern myself with what "conservatives" like or hate.


Have you paid attention to all the people crossing our border illegally in a attempt to be "poor" in America? Have you noticed that these people are currently working, a lot without the ability to speak english, and making it? Did you hear Obama saying it will do air strikes in Iraq? think that will make much difference? All that money that could be going to OUR people, spent bombing people in a country we already know won't change ever. think about it. Our government waist money. Puts it in the garbage and your worrying about the poor not making 15 an hour? thinking that will fix it. Come on man.
Do you do the signs for the Tea party?
Again, you're not addressing a $15 minimum wage.  You're addressing government spending, which is completely unrelated. This is not some sort of political rant... it's a common sense idea.  

But just to address your bizarre analogy, foreign aid =$23 billion a year. Welfare spending =$670 billion.  
It's all related. Ignore it if you want.
The government doesn't pay people. Corporations and business owners do.  Except when the corporations, like WalMart (and others, if it makes you feel better), pay them so little that the government has to pay them as well.  

I'd bet that a third of that $670 billion in welfare payments goes to people who are employed.  Imagine if that number was $470 billion instead of $670 billion, that would cut our yearly deficit in half.  Instead, we support business paying people nothing.  I'd say we should cut foreign aid if I didn't think it was doing more good than bad, and was significant enough to make a difference.  It's just not a significant amount in terms of our overall budget, and it's likely doing enough good that it outweighs the bad it does.  

Again, not really relevant to paying people a living wage instead of starvation wages.