193 posts
charger — Jul 16, 2012Is it also a lie when Romney says that under Obama, spending increased at the fastest level in history? Or is that lie just okay with you?
Yes. It is a lie.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/may/23/facebook-posts/viral-facebook-post-says-barack-obama-has-lowest-s/
charger — Jul 16, 2012I'll tell you what... every time Romney says he's going to help the middle class, or the poor, he's lying through his teeth and he knows it. Since birth he's known one thing--how to get richer, help his rich friends get richer, and how to screw the poor and middle class to get there. Why do you think he won't release his tax returns for any but 2009 on? Because we would frankly be disturbed by what they show--someone who makes ludicrous amounts of money, pays little tax, and keeps a large portion of his money in offshore tax shelters.
Show me one plan or idea Romney has that will benefit anyone but the rich, say the top 5%. One plan.
So you think Romney would run the country exactly like he ran Bain Capital? If you do, think how quickly we could reduce the national debt. ;D ;D ;D ;D And he could chop up and sell off Iran, Afghanistan, Israel, Iraq, you know, all those pain in the ass countries that cost us a fortune. ;D He'd be great for America. ;D ;D
Hookbender — Jul 16, 2012[quote author=charger link=1342042977/25#49 date=1342479236]I'll tell you what... every time Romney says he's going to help the middle class, or the poor, he's lying through his teeth and he knows it. Since birth he's known one thing--how to get richer, help his rich friends get richer, and how to screw the poor and middle class to get there. Why do you think he won't release his tax returns for any but 2009 on? Because we would frankly be disturbed by what they show--someone who makes ludicrous amounts of money, pays little tax, and keeps a large portion of his money in offshore tax shelters.
Show me one plan or idea Romney has that will benefit anyone but the rich, say the top 5%. One plan.
So you think Romney would run the country exactly like he ran Bain Capital? If you do, think how quickly we could reduce the national debt. ;D ;D ;D ;D And he could chop up and sell off Iran, Afghanistan, Israel, Iraq, you know, all those pain in the ass countries that cost us a fortune. ;D He'd be great for America. ;D ;D
Countries don't run like that. At Bain he could lay off workers galore and still turn a profit, because there is no prize for employing more workers. As president, you certainly can increase unemployment radically to reduce expenditures, but you are not going to get any proze for it.
Just tell me something. Does it make him seem more or less trustworthy to you, this refusal to release any taxes before 2009? He's so adamant, it makes me think that he thinks he has more to lose by releasing them than by not. What could be in those things?
I'd tell them to stick it up their ass myself. Just saying.
Everyone knows he's rich. Why are they even talking about it? Fucking Obama is rich too. Romney needs to stick to the economy and let the dems worry like hell about his tax returns while he goes and wins this election. And in the end, the liberals just get to tell America that Romney's rich........ again! Obama needs to focus on what the fuck his goals are for his second term, like making a budget, or something like that. He needs to shut up about Romney. He's making people aware of who he is. I don't think a lot of people even know who he is. ;D
I don't think he has anything to hide. We know the cats loaded. Move the fuck on to something important for fucks sake. Shit loads of recent Presidents have been loaded. Candidates too, from both parties. It just seems so goddamn childish to me. What a waist of time to talk about that shit while our country goes to hell.
I think all "politicians", at some point, needs to be hung from their nuts for 30 minutes, including Nancy P.
But it is embarrassing based on his father's stance.
I think it shows how out of touch he is. The people already see him as incredibly out of touch with normal Americans, and I think if he were to show some insane tax returns where he made millions and paid, perhaps, nothing in taxes? I think it would be the end for him. I think he's going to lose anyway, but he's certainly not making himself look any better by hiding his income.
Well shit. Why are you so concerned about bullshit? These are not lagit concerns.
So, he made shit loads of money. Good for him. That isn't a crime.
Lets just say he paid 10% in taxes. Good for him. He took advantage, legally, of the current tax system. That isn't a crime either.
So, you want to make it illegal for successful people who made a lot of money to be a candidate for President of the USA? You'd have to yank Obama's ass out of office if that's the case.
The concern shouldn't be how little taxes Romney paid, the concern should be to close the loopholes that enable not just Romney, but 1000's of other people who do the same thing. You pay as little as possible as well as everyone of us here. We take advantage of every deduction we can get. No different with Romney than anyone else, it's just a larger deduction.
If your gonna bitch about Romney taking deductions and paying as little taxes as possible, then you and everyone else will suffer from the change in the tax system that fixes that. Is that what you want? Or, would you prefer that only conservatives suffer from that change? Never mind, don't answer that.
Don't ever bash me again for all the concerns I had with Obama, like Rev Wright and all the other criminals surrounding him because they were damn lagit compared to this crybaby crap. ;) This doesn't even make sense man. ;D ;D
"I think it shows how out of touch he is."
;D ;D Just what the fuck does that mean? ;D ;D
Right, if yer rich, you should pay to have laws made that make your greed become "within the rules" so you can feel ok about hiding yer money and taking a lower percentage on your income than the middle class who also pay payroll taxes.
We should all feel sorry for them, really. I mean why would you pay taxes when you can pay politicians directly.
Still, daddy's gotta be rollin' in the grave. Mebee not tho.... Showing he was an above board rich guy didn't help him win.
Hookbender — Jul 18, 2012Well shit. Why are you so concerned about bullshit? These are not lagit concerns.
So, he made shit loads of money. Good for him. That isn't a crime.
Lets just say he paid 10% in taxes. Good for him. He took advantage, legally, of the current tax system. That isn't a crime either.
So, you want to make it illegal for successful people who made a lot of money to be a candidate for President of the USA? You'd have to yank Obama's ass out of office if that's the case.
The concern shouldn't be how little taxes Romney paid, the concern should be to close the loopholes that enable not just Romney, but 1000's of other people who do the same thing. You pay as little as possible as well as everyone of us here. We take advantage of every deduction we can get. No different with Romney than anyone else, it's just a larger deduction.
"I think it shows how out of touch he is."
;D ;D Just what the fuck does that mean? ;D ;D
I think you're wrong. I don't think Americans should be hiding their money in offshore tax shelters in the Cayman Islands, and even if it is legal, I would not vote for a person who did that. It's too slimy.
There's another interesting question out there--perhaps he has actually cheated on his taxes.
For example, his retirement account?
Candidates list their assets in broad ranges, so we know Romney's retirement account is worth somewhere between $21 million and $102 million. Law professor Ed Kleinbard of the University of Southern California says that's a lot of money considering the most Romney could ever contribute to the account was $30,000 a year.
That's certainly a tax shelter that normal people don't have access to... because we can only contribute 30k a year. How Romney got that much in his account is probably a lot of sleight-of-hand, cheating by depositing stock in it, then grossly undervaluing the stock. It makes me think he's a cheat, personally, no matter the trickery he used to get there.
http://www.npr.org/2012/07/19/157002254/tax-professionals-scrutinize-mitt-romneys-returns
If your gonna bitch about Romney taking deductions and paying as little taxes as possible, then you and everyone else will suffer from the change in the tax system that fixes that. Is that what you want? Or, would you prefer that only conservatives suffer from that change? Never mind, don't answer that.
Dude, I and you and everyone else will not suffer from closing any of these loopholes, because these loopholes affect only rich people. When's the last time you deposited money in your offshore account? How's your tax shelter company in the Caymans doing? And how are you doing with those millions in your retirement accounts? I doubt anyone I know has even ever deposited the $30k max in their retirement accounts in a year. Come on, dude.
Who cares Charger? We know he's made money. If he cheated on his taxes or not isn't what we are voting for. I say close all loopholes and come up with a fair tax. I can't believe you question why such a rich person who makes all this money has money in a in any account. He's rich, that's why.
What your saying is a liberal can lie to you but a conservative can't.
If I suspect there is a God, is the bible really good evidence of that being true? No. If you suspect Romney broke the law concerning his taxes, and a few other people "suspect" the same, does that make your allegation true because your a liberal or something? Hell no. Prove it.
Your concerns have no substance and don't matter one bit concerning him being President. I didn't hear shit about how much taxes Kerry paid. Clinton either. Not even Bush 1 or 2. It doesn't matter, and you know it.
He can prove/disprove all of it. Show the people the same stuff he showed McCain...
Hookbender — Jul 20, 2012Who cares Charger? We know he's made money. If he cheated on his taxes or not isn't what we are voting for. I say close all loopholes and come up with a fair tax. I can't believe you question why such a rich person who makes all this money has money in a in any account. He's rich, that's why.
What your saying is a liberal can lie to you but a conservative can't.
If I suspect there is a God, is the bible really good evidence of that being true? No. If you suspect Romney broke the law concerning his taxes, and a few other people "suspect" the same, does that make your allegation true because your a liberal or something? Hell no. Prove it.
Your concerns have no substance and don't matter one bit concerning him being President. I didn't hear shit about how much taxes Kerry paid. Clinton either. Not even Bush 1 or 2. It doesn't matter, and you know it.
He has at least $21 million in his retirement accounts. You can legally contribute 30,000 a year. He is pretty old. but he hasn't been contributing to it for 700 years. Yeah, he probably cheated on his taxes. A person who is now trying to be the supreme executive for the United States. A nation of laws.
And yet you actually said, above "if he cheated on his taxes or didn't isn't what we're voting for." So you're okay with that. If you've got no interest in the rule of law, you're not going to be swayed by anything I or anyone else says, and this conversation is pointless, right?
You've made up your mind. It's funny because in your first post I thought you actually wanted to talk about the election, but it turns out that all you really want to do is tell us how shitty Obama is. Great argument.
charger — Jul 20, 2012[quote author=Hookbender link=1342042977/50#64 date=1342759915]Who cares Charger? We know he's made money. If he cheated on his taxes or not isn't what we are voting for. I say close all loopholes and come up with a fair tax. I can't believe you question why such a rich person who makes all this money has money in a in any account. He's rich, that's why.
What your saying is a liberal can lie to you but a conservative can't.
If I suspect there is a God, is the bible really good evidence of that being true? No. If you suspect Romney broke the law concerning his taxes, and a few other people "suspect" the same, does that make your allegation true because your a liberal or something? Hell no. Prove it.
Your concerns have no substance and don't matter one bit concerning him being President. I didn't hear shit about how much taxes Kerry paid. Clinton either. Not even Bush 1 or 2. It doesn't matter, and you know it.
He has at least $21 million in his retirement accounts. You can legally contribute 30,000 a year. He is pretty old. but he hasn't been contributing to it for 700 years. Yeah, he probably cheated on his taxes. A person who is now trying to be the supreme executive for the United States. A nation of laws.
And yet you actually said, above "if he cheated on his taxes or didn't isn't what we're voting for." So you're okay with that. If you've got no interest in the rule of law, you're not going to be swayed by anything I or anyone else says, and this conversation is pointless, right?
You've made up your mind. It's funny because in your first post I thought you actually wanted to talk about the election, but it turns out that all you really want to do is tell us how shitty Obama is. Great argument.
I don't care how much money he has. They should investigate this claim about him not paying taxes and if it's true that he did something illegal, let the laws take care of that. I don't care. But right now it's just a guess and political tactic by liberals to make him look bad. Nothing more.
The point of all this is that Obama lies his ass off to America and thinks we should just overlook that and vote for him again. I think we should hold these people accountable and get their ass out of office if they do that. Same with any other politician. Romney too. I don't think he's some kind of savior or anything like that. If he lies while in office or doesn't do what he says he'll do, vote his ass out on the next election.
I didn't make up my mind about anything, Obama did that for me. I just decided not to stick my head in the sand and ignore it.
If we don't hold these people accountable, we will never have that hope and change thing Obama ran on actually happen.
Like I said:
You've made up your mind. It's funny because in your first post I thought you actually wanted to talk about the election, but it turns out that all you really want to do is tell us how shitty Obama is. Great argument.
Then your missing the point, or ignoring it. I don't think Obama is shitty. I think he's made very damn large mistakes. I also think he's outright lied to us and hasn't completely even attempted to do the most basic jobs while in office. Like address the debt, lack of a budget, for example.
Obama is President right now. Who am I suppose to talk about? Santa?
The point is to hold these people to a higher level of accountability. All of them. Pubs and dems. Presidents, congress, senate, govs....fucking all of them.
Like I said, you've already made up your mind. Never mind all the stuff that Obama DID get done with the worst Congress in history. Never mind that budgets don't originate, get voted on, or get passed by the President (that's Congress). Never mind that you probably think it's noble that Republicans automatically fillibuster every piece of legislation in the Senate, so that effectively, what used to require 51 votes to pass now always requires 60. It's Obama's fault. All of it.
Go vote Romney, he'll really fix all that shit.
Why didn't he just wish that Bush half of the debt away when he got in?
You liberals are all the same. Every time somethings negative gets mentioned about Obama, you jump on the Bush did it wagon. We all know Romney is rich, we all know Bush spent money. This isn't about Bush. If you've lost an argument, blaming Bush isn't a way out. Focus fuckers, focus. ;D
I will mention 9-11 in Bush's defense, but that's not much of a defense. However, Bush and Obama have something in common. Tax cuts.
Liberal shmiberal, you just ignore the pub's role. Yer the one that's crying that BamBam didn't deal with the debt. At the time he came in, half it was Jr's debt. Whatja think of the "Grand Bargain" negotiations?
Lost what argument? I think that's pretty presumptuous of you to assume you won some sort of argument here. You've given us jack and shit, and then told us it makes a great argument for Romney. So far I haven't heard a coherent argument for Romney at all, from you, and I'm not impressed by your Faux News regurgitation of Obama's "failures".
Then read about them on a liberal site, or channel. Facts are facts.
Your not gonna hear a argument for Romney from me. I'm just going to give him a chance to fix the mess we're in. Obama did a so so job of keeping the ship floating. Now we need someone to get the engines running again. Your ignoring facts and calling them fox entertainment when they are facts, period. And you can tell when a liberal runs out of things to say when you get the blame Bush shit. Remember, bush did a great job on the economy, he just spent way to much damn money in the process. The only thing I can say Obama did really well was killing Binny. That seems like something you'd pat a conservative on the back for, doesn't it? ;D
Apparently you've decided to ignore everything I've said and insert your own take on what I said. That's fine. We both know what I've said.
;D ;D ;D
Thank You Bingy. 8-)
Basically, your argument is, with the Republicans basicallly blocking everything Obama wanted to do since 2009, he managed to get the country moving again, but for some reason it's Obama's fault we haven't made a full recovery from the worst financial crisis since 1929 in three years. I'm sorry, I don't think you posted any sort of persuasive argument for anything at all. Correct me if that's not the entirety of your argument.
"Your ignoring facts and calling them fox entertainment when they are facts, period. And you can tell when a liberal runs out of things to say when you get the blame Bush shit. Remember, bush did a great job on the economy, he just spent way to much damn money in the process."
Great job, especially when it was revealed in the end...and only cost 6 trillion!!!
How's majik undeez gonna get those engines chugging? By being a pub so his buddies'll hire again?
charger — Jul 23, 2012Basically, your argument is, with the Republicans basicallly blocking everything Obama wanted to do since 2009, he managed to get the country moving again, but for some reason it's Obama's fault we haven't made a full recovery from the worst financial crisis since 1929 in three years. I'm sorry, I don't think you posted any sort of persuasive argument for anything at all. Correct me if that's not the entirety of your argument.
As i said, your ignoring what I've said. I've already explained what the point of my argument was, and you did ignore it.
If your statement above is correct, then he won't be able to do anything in his second term either. So, we will have a President for 4 more years that won't be able to get anything done again. That means he's a victim of congress and senate. All the more reason not to vote for him.
We need to get rid of the people in congress and senate that stay their and make a career out of being in the congress and senate. That's not the way it's suppose to be anyway. And, that's part of our problem.
So, you can vote for Romney, who has a chance to get things done, or vote for Obama who can't get anything done. Thats the answer to your post, which has nothing to do with the point of my argument, by the way.
And how exactly does Romney have any chance to get things done? The way I look at it, if Romney gets elected, then he's going to have about 45 idiotic Republican senators, and maybe even numbers in the House. He's not going to have a 60-member supermajority in the Senate, in fact he'll have even less than Obama does! What can he possibly get done?
This is all Romney is running on. No plans, just "My team won't fight me" and "He gave it a try, it's time to try something else." Hook's just showing that he can parrot the RNC and ignore everything else that has happened over the last ten years or more.
honestly, that's what annoys me most. Not that Romney has dastardly plans, in fact he doesn't seem to have any plans at all, except:
I'm going to repeal everything Obama passed.
And his campaign platform seems to be: I'm not Obama.
How is that going to inspire anything? Just run as what you're not, and people will elect you? Lame.
They've given us people all we need to know. Do you really think a man who tithes like Mitt Romney could possibly be dishonest or unethical?
(HA HA HA)
It takes a special kind of privilege to call anyone "you people". But, that's not Romney, that's his wife, and she's clearly not going to do well in many interviews since she's even worse at not saying what's on her mind than Romney.
I'd rather someone who says what they think myself. Even if they make a few mistakes, like... "I'm finally proud of my country" stuff.
Better than someone who lies to you, any day. ;)
BINGEWOOD — Jul 23, 2012This is all Romney is running on. No plans, just "My team won't fight me" and "He gave it a try, it's time to try something else." Hook's just showing that he can parrot the RNC and ignore everything else that has happened over the last ten years or more.
Oh really? And everything that's happened over the last 10 years is Romneys fault? I thought it was Bush's fault.
Make up your mind already.
Keep on ignoring, Hookee, and please feel free to misinterpret what I write... I know ya will!!!
I don't think Romney, Charger, Tripper, or even Stratman had anything to do with policy making in the last ten years that would effect the economy in this way. Therefore, it would be pretty stupid to accuse these people of doing what caused these problems with the economy on them.
Yes, yes!!! Ignore AND misinterpret!!!! It's lovely!!!
Ahhhhh, FOX, yer lessons were not in vain...
It doesn't matter whether he was directly involved in practically destroying our economy or not. Romney's plans are on his website, if you can call them plans.
On the economy: "His plan seeks to reduce taxes, spending, regulation, and government programs."
So basically, toss out Dodd-Frank, which is the only significant regulation of the financial services industry in the last 30 years. I find especially laughable his claim that he wants to reduce spending, especially since for the last couple of days he's been railing against the sequester agreed on by the Congress (which he claims was single-handedly designed, implemented, and passed by Obama). The sequester would institute some 2 billion in cuts automatically across all sectors of government, and I guess Romney doesn't like this because it includes defense, which is the majority of discretionary spending.
On healthcare: "On his first day in office, Mitt Romney will issue an executive order that paves the way for the federal government to issue Obamacare waivers to all fifty states. He will then work with Congress to repeal the full legislation as quickly as possible."
His plan is to undo Obama's work. That's genius at work, folks.
Taxes? "To repair the nation's tax code, marginal rates must be brought down to stimulate entrepreneurship, job creation, and investment, while still raising the revenue needed to fund a smaller, smarter, simpler government."
Two problems with this "plan":
1) marginal tax rates are currently the lowest they have been in this country since right around the time of the great depression. How'd that work then?
2) we currently have a smaller, smarter, simpler government. Everyone complains about high unemployment, about job growth being anemic, etc. Yet many, many economists have pointed out that the reason we are currently growing jobs so slowly is we have been laying off PUBLIC SECTOR workers en masse. Private sector job growth has actually been pretty good, but we're cutting so many government jobs that the net effect is slow growth. This is easily researched. Here's one article:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/is-the-private-sector-really-doing-fine/
And here's the gist of it:
Over the past year the private sector has added nearly 2 million jobs and GDP has grown by 2 percent. According to Christopher Thornberg, an economist and co-founder o"f Beacon Economics, that is a normal pace for growth."
...
The public sector, on the other hand, has cut 161,000 jobs over the past year, the vast of which came at the state and local level, where payrolls have decreased by 111,000 since May 2011.
...
If the government had not parsed back payrolls, Jacobs said the unemployment rate would be below 8 percent and the private sector, stimulated by increased demand from the additional public employees, would be growing faster.
Go look at the "Issues" section of Mitt's website. There's not a single category that starts with a plan. Instead, every category begins with a big heading "Obama's Failure." The guy is apparently not able to craft his own ideas except as a response to someone else's ideas. Will that win him the presidency? Maybe. Will that move our country forward? Undoubtedly, no.
This one gave me pause, too...
http://www.mittromney.com/blogs/mitts-view/2011/10/mitt-romney-announces-foreign-policy-and-national-security-advisory-team
Mitt Romney's announced foreign policy team.
A large portion of these folks come from the big banks (Citigroup, Lehman, Deutsche Bank, etc.)
There are also a few hawks from conservative think tanks, such as the Heritage Foundation.
The ones with government experience are almost all from the Bush Administration.
Well, what's Obama's plan. Does he have one? A budget isn't necessary, why have a plan? Oh, but lets spend money, that'll fix it, Wilber.
And please. Let's not talk about "teams". An Obama supporter bringing up...... the teams?????? Got to be kidding me.
If you don't know Obama's plans, it's because you don't want to. I actually went to Romney's site to find his because he sure as hell doesn't talk about them, and what I found was all the things Obama did that he's going to undo. That's not a very impressive platform to stand on.
As far as Obama's foreign policy team, I'm not sure who you have a problem with? Clinton? Panetta? They're pretty fucking awesome if you ask me.
It's very impressive that he wants to undo Obama care though. That shit could sink us.
Now, try to name a third good guy on the Obama team. I'll give you the other 2. ;D
"Most impressive"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Sweet praise of Israel's socialized medicine tho...
You don't have to agree with and idea just because a liberal is for it, Bingy. DO you think business owners aren't worried about this? Do you see this healthcare law beneficial to out economy? Explain how. Do you think they few good things in this law is worth the price we have to pay for it? As if we know the price to begin with, right?
Hookbender — Jul 31, 2012You don't have to agree with and idea just because a liberal is for it, Bingy.
What do you mean? Who's agreeing with what idea and who's the liberal yer talking about?
DO you think business owners aren't worried about this?
I have heard this on FOX, again not sure what you mean? They never go past the statement. What is the scariest element as you see it?
Do you see this healthcare law beneficial to out economy? Explain how. Do you think they few good things in this law is worth the price we have to pay for it? As if we know the price to begin with, right?
Yer the one who was for it and said it was a good start, I'm the one who thinks that the big provisions should have been seen as fraud and delt with long ago and favors single payer. Didja hear about Romney's praise of Israel's socialized medicine?
So your against the healthcare thing? You think Romney is right on for trying to get rid of it? And you agree that it's bad for the economy? Business, and to costly?
Wait.... your a fox news watcher? What the hell. Your accusing me of that, yet your the one actually watching fox???? Wow.
I'm still reading the healthcare thing so I can't really give you what seems to be the worst element of the healthcare law. I don't think businesses should be forced to carry insurance on their employees or be fined, if that's actually the case. And I don't think the cost of insurance has been addressed in this thing, nor the problem with law suits that doctors have to take in consideration. That's just me spouting shit that may not be true. I'm still reading the thing.
