97 posts
Getting really ugly. I watched a couple of clips of McCain trying to put the genie that he unleashed back in the bottle... it doesn't seem to be going to well.
At a rally on Wednesday with Sen. McCain and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, someone yelled "off with his head."
I have to seriously question the judgment of a person who thought that it would be okay to send his VP out to portray his opponent as a terrorist. That's, by my count, his third really poor judgment call just in the last month and a half of this campaign.
I haven't seen or heard that. What did Palin say that gave you that idea? About Obama being a terrorist?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gi3oP74kMjA
and the reason McCain is doing this:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6YKOkfFsE
McCain pals around with G Gordan Liddy....a convicted felon. :o :o ::)
Palin mighta started her career with some radicals as well.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/10/palin_chryson/
Palin didn't say Obama was a terrorist. We both no what she was referring to, but that isn't calling Obama a terrorist. And, that man she was referring to is, or was, a pretty bad dude at one time. I think Obama has had some questionable relationships with crazy people, that's what in the news. So unless people, the public, search out the facts about each one, they will continue to question relationships. Same goes for McCain. I just think Obama's are a tad worse than McCains. More of them. Doesn't mean either of them did anything wrong, it's just a political chess game designed to create questions about the other candidate. If you understand that, it's not a big deal. You just have to search out the facts for yourself. Personally, I'd rather search out what the candidate is planning to do to help our country in the future. To a degree, I don't care about the past. To a degree...... some things are relevent to how decisions will be made in the future.
I think your last post, or link, was a pretty good and honest response from McCain. He did the right thing at the right time. He corrected and stopped an idiot from continuing her baseless accusations agaist Obama. What's wrong with that?
This took about 10 seconds to find. Much more accurate description of Ayers and Obama. But will other people take the time to do this? The average voter? Probably not, but I could be wrong. Either way, I think Obama, from a political standpoint, shouldn't have anything at all to do with these type people. Meaning Ayers, Rev. Wright, etc. Sonner or later, these people will come back to haunt you, as they are now with Obama.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html
Hookbender — Oct 12, 2008I think your last post, or link, was a pretty good and honest response from McCain. He did the right thing at the right time. He corrected and stopped an idiot from continuing her baseless accusations agaist Obama. What's wrong with that?
There's nothing wrong with that, it just took a week of people yelling "He's a terrorist", "Kill him" for him to cool off what he started by desperately rehashing shit from much earlier in the campaign.
Hopefully the last debate will be interesting.
Palin didn't say Obama was a terrorist. We both no what she was referring to, but that isn't calling Obama a terrorist
Here is where your problems start.
Charger says "....his VP out to portray his opponent as a terrorist"
Portray,depict,paint a picture of........Not that she called him a terrorist.
Your first response was:
I haven't seen or heard that. What did Palin say that gave you that idea? About Obama being a terrorist?
You have already assumed charger said that Palin was calling Obama a terrorist.
Your next post above continues on with that assertion.
You are essentially arguing with your own assumptions.
This is most likely due to poor reading comprehension coupled with a contrarian attitude. ;D
I took the Palin speech to mean Obama had relationships with questionable people, such as Ayers. She painted that picture. I don't see it as her painting Obama as a terrorist. She's pointing out the obvious to people who will not find the truth and just believe what she says, or maybe, implies. Which to me is that Obama associates with terrorist. My comprehension is just fine, it's yours I'm concerned with. His relationships with some of these people are worthy of question. She's questioning Obama's choice of people he associates with. I have no problem with that.
Are you saying she's questioning the truth?
No Binge. I'm sayng that associating with Ayers, Rev. Wright, etc, is worthy of question. That's all. And I didn't consider Palin to be portraying Obama to be a terrorist, I thought she was referring to Ayres...not Obama.
If you don't get the answer you like, just keep asking?
Just do some reading Hook. It's all over the news,newspapers and the internet.
You may not take it that way,but others are. Consider what the people in the audience yell.
It's obvious what Palin is doing. What the campaign is doing.
Fox may have a different take. ;D
Here are some quotes for you:
Republicans and Democrats alike have collaborated with the present-day Ayers in educational reform.
What makes them different, and what has pumped up the Weimar-like rage at McCain-Palin rallies, is the violent escalation in rhetoric, especially (though not exclusively) by Palin. Obama launched his political career in the living room of a domestic terrorist. He is palling around with terrorists (note the plural noun). Obama is not a man who sees America the way you and I see America. Wielding a wildly out-of-context Obama quote, Palin slurs him as an enemy of American troops.
By the time McCain asks the crowd Who is the real Barack Obama? its no surprise that someone cries out Terrorist! The rhetorical conflation of Obama with terrorism is complete. It is stoked further by the repeated invocation of Obamas middle name by surrogates introducing McCain and Palin at these rallies. This sleight of hand at once synchronizes with the poisonous Obama-is-a-Muslim e-mail blasts and shifts the brand of terrorism from Ayerss Vietnam-era variety to the radical Islamic threats of today.
Thats a far cry from simply accusing Obama of being a guilty-by-association radical leftist. Obama is being branded as a potential killer and an accessory to past attempts at murder. Barack Obamas friend tried to kill my family was how a McCain press release last week packaged the remembrance of a Weather Underground incident from 1970 when Obama was 8.
BINGEWOOD — Oct 12, 2008If you don't get the answer you like, just keep asking?
When I say "worthy of question", I mean question, then find the truth of the matter to the best of one's ability....which is usually 30 minutes on the net. Not very difficult. No use in questioning if your not gonna seek the answer.
pickmaster60 — Oct 12, 2008Palin didn't say Obama was a terrorist. We both no what she was referring to, but that isn't calling Obama a terrorist
Here is where your problems start.
Charger says "....his VP out to portray his opponent as a terrorist"
Portray,depict,paint a picture of........Not that she called him a terrorist.
Your first response was:
I haven't seen or heard that. What did Palin say that gave you that idea? About Obama being a terrorist?
You have already assumed charger said that Palin was calling Obama a terrorist.
Your next post above continues on with that assertion.
You are essentially arguing with your own assumptions.
This is most likely due to poor reading comprehension coupled with a contrarian attitude. ;D
I think the problem started when you attempted to answer a question for Charger, but that's just me. ;)
Are you assuming that I'm assuming something then giving an answer in place of the person I ask the question to, based primarily on assumption? That's logical. :o
Hookbender — Oct 12, 2008 No use in questioning if your not gonna seek the answer.
Well obviously there is SOME use.
Are you saying that the "folks" are the people who should be asking or the originators of the doubt?
If you want it to be personal you should PM or E-mail charger.
Otherwise it's public.......free for anyone to comment.
All I did was post two links to footage to help you understand what's going on.
You said you hadn't seen or heard anything about it. It's been going on for a while and has been in the news.
What I'm saying is......You take a comment,change the meaning and take it out of context. You change the wording to mean something different than what was originaly said or intended.....then argue the point with your own missunderstanding.
It looks like a lack of comprehension of what is said and understanding of what is going on.
It could be your trolling. What are you doing?
pickmaster60 — Oct 13, 2008If you want it to be personal you should PM or E-mail charger.
Otherwise it's public.......free for anyone to comment.
All I did was post two links to footage to help you understand what's going on.
You said you hadn't seen or heard anything about it. It's been going on for a while and has been in the news.
What I'm saying is......You take a comment,change the meaning and take it out of context. You change the wording to mean something different than what was originally said or intended.....then argue the point with your own misunderstanding.
It looks like a lack of comprehension of what is said and understanding of what is going on.
It could be your trolling. What are you doing?
What am I doing? Well, first, I ask Charger a question. Then you answered it for him for some reason, then I responded to your post. Maybe you should re-read the post in question. It would be the second post on this thread. Think think think, that's what Ole Winnie the Pooh says. ;D
"I have to seriously question the judgment of a person who thought that it would be okay to send his VP out to portray his opponent as a terrorist."
This is Charger's post.
My response.....
"What did Palin say that gave you that idea? About Obama being a terrorist?"
What assumption? there isn't one. Unless it;s the assumption that Palin SAID something that portrayed Obama as a terrorist. I guess she could have shown film or something. ;D
I agree with you that this is the easiest point to argue. The truth can be much harder.
Saying that someone "Pal's around with terrorists" is not exactly subtle,
It is gutter rabble rousing and incitement worthy of a fascist rally.
It may well seem subtle to a section of the audience that is mentally retarded enough for this to be a subliminal message :)
To the retards she might as well have said.
"What do you do with the pals of terrorists" and pulled out a noose.
This has stepped way over the mark.
Obama is a high risk for assassination anyway.
Well, the truth is that Ayers really isn't or wasn't a terrorist. And Obama isn't a terrorist for sure. McCains adds have been proven false, and the assumption by Palin that Ayres is a terrorist is part of her lack of understanding facts and her ignorance of the subject. Politics for short.
I do understand that mentioning terrorist or Ayres with Obama as the subject of discussion is a poor attempt to bring the two together. But Palin is hoping the public does that, imo. And I don't see her as doing that herself, as a matter of fact.
I guess one could come to that conclusion, but I don't. I see it as an attempt, again, to cast doubt on voters using Obama's encounters with questionable people. Fair game in my book.
And Pick, the real assumption here is that Palin is attempting to tie Obama with terrorist to begin with. I can't read the womans mind, if she has one, but I dissagree with the basis of this assumption, of course.
BINGEWOOD — Oct 12, 2008[quote author=Hookbender link=1223772829/0#14 date=1223854310] No use in questioning if your not gonna seek the answer.
Well obviously there is SOME use.
Are you saying that the "folks" are the people who should be asking or the originators of the doubt?
I missed this question. Pick will get on me if I don't answer a question. ;D
If I understand your question correctly, I"m saying that if someone says something, before you believe what they say, check the accuracy of it.
It's not just Palin doing it.
McCains campaign is doing it.
Fox has reported stories saying Obama is Muslim and an Arab.
Rush has as well.
Plus the underground untracable E-mails saying all of this and more.
I've had about six people send me a version of the "Obama 50 lies"
They send it to me as if it's true. All of them Republican and in Alabama.
They were circulated quite a bit in Republican circles.
Hookbender — Oct 13, 2008"I have to seriously question the judgment of a person who thought that it would be okay to send his VP out to portray his opponent as a terrorist."
This is Charger's post.
My response.....
"What did Palin say that gave you that idea? About Obama being a terrorist?"
What assumption? there isn't one. Unless it;s the assumption that Palin SAID something that portrayed Obama as a terrorist. I guess she could have shown film or something. ;D
Jesus H. Christ, Hook. Everyone and their mother seems to understand what is going on but you.
Palin said "Obama pals around with terrorists" -- in both the present tense, and the plural. Then she said "this is a man who does not see America the way you and I see America." She said this repeatedly for appearances over a couple of days.
When people in the crowd shouted "terrorist" she did nothing to correct them. When people in the crowd shouted "kill him" she said nothing. When crowds, riled up by her anti-media rants, started getting hostile towards reporters, she did nothing to correct them. When someone shouted "off with his head" about Obama, she said nothing.
It took McCain being DIRECTLY QUESTIONED by people about the rumors that HIS CAMPAIGN has been spreading, before he said anything. He let this shit go on for days. In fact, since it's his campaign, he came up with the bright idea of slurring Obama's "American-ness." If you think that's fine, you are clearly in the minority--most of the press, and most impartial observers, have concluded that McCain is now running a desperate campaign to portray Obama as a terrorist, as un-American, and as divisive. This should not be news to you, unless the only news you watch is on Fox News.
My god, even McCain sees that he fucked up, and Hook still thinks it's just fine and dandy.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/13/uselections2008-johnmccain
Hookbender — Oct 13, 2008
And Pick, the real assumption here is that Palin is attempting to tie Obama with terrorist to begin with.
What part of "This is a man who pals around with terrorists" are you not understanding? It leaves NOTHING to be assumed.
I should have never ask a question. I'm out.
You put a lot of responsibility on the riled up.
Fox terrorist fist jab
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_vmQrTi3aM&feature=related
What is wrong with Fox...and these stupid women?
Not like this is something new. ;D
I liked this one from the other day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okwu0vm0UwMFox and MSNBC are both really funny but for different reasons.
I deplore it as well! ;D
Olbermann on msnbc is pretty funny. He's out there sometimes.
I guess McCain isn't going to stop. Comparing Obama to Osama!
Jeeze....
http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/23440/virginia-republican-chief-compares-obama-to-osama-bin-laden/
BINGEWOOD — Oct 13, 2008I liked this one from the other day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okwu0vm0UwM
Fox and MSNBC are both really funny but for different reasons.
Fox news pundits - they all try to copy Bill O'reilly method
Make a controversial accusation then talk over the guy's response non stop.
You just want to slap them hard and go "Shut the FUCK UP and LISTEN"
man - that guy in the fox video - just can't handle his own medicine. :)
Bill O'Reilly interviewing Obama - I watched some of it on youtube and it was incredible, it was at least 70% O'Reilly talking.
He asks a question and answers it himself then lets Obama talk for a femto second before doing a Stratman rant.
It is fucking hilarious
Sean Hannity pals around with nazis and anti-semites. :)
He gets angry when challenged - what has he got hide.
pickmaster60 — Oct 13, 2008I deplore it as well! ;D
Olbermann on msnbc is pretty funny. He's out there sometimes.
I guess McCain isn't going to stop. Comparing Obama to Osama!
Jeeze....
http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/23440/virginia-republican-chief-compares-obama-to-osama-bin-laden/
Man the gutter lowness of that is breathtaking.
Maybe that is why the republican party has had such a problem capturing or killing Osama bin Ladin.
It must be hard running an intelligence gathering operation if you ...
a) are not intelligent
b) confuse your target with the democratic presidential candidate
c) are a coward who looks after #1 at all costs.
Sounds like the republican chief in Virginia is a), b) and c).
chief - lol - more like head slime ball. :)
fingers — Oct 13, 2008BTW - why are republicans so obsessed and scared of terrorism anyway.
Liberals seem to be able to handle their fear rationally.
And let's face it they were the ones living in the place that was attacked.
They must have more personal courage.
Republicans seem to be predominantly from the fearful and cowardly side of bell curve.
had to be said - they shit themselves over paranoia.
A 911 on fast dial kinda vibe about them
I think maybe some of my, mainly, problem is that I look at things from more of a voters perspective than that of my own. I'm gonna try to narrow my views to that of my own. I can't speak for other voters, but I know how I use to think and that may be playing into the opinion I give currently. Maybe I was in the minoriety then too. ;D
I have some problems with the people Obama associated with, his healthcare plan, lack of info on addressing the debt, I'm not sure what he means by delaying some of his current plans.
Everyone is addressing the possibility that if something were to happen to McCain, Palin would be president. That's fine and kinda understandable. On the job training is probably acceptable as VP, but maybe no President. What happens if something happens to Biden? Biden brings alot to the table for Obama. Much, much, experience and knowledge. What happens if Biden bites the big one?
The latter sounds much better than the former.
If you climb the latter, you will become the former.
Hookbender — Oct 15, 2008I think maybe some of my, mainly, problem is that I look at things from more of a voters perspective than that of my own. I'm gonna try to narrow my views to that of my own. I can't speak for other voters, but I know how I use to think and that may be playing into the opinion I give currently. Maybe I was in the minoriety then too. ;D
I have some problems with the people Obama associated with, his healthcare plan, lack of info on addressing the debt, I'm not sure what he means by delaying some of his current plans.
Everyone is addressing the possibility that if something were to happen to McCain, Palin would be president. That's fine and kinda understandable. On the job training is probably acceptable as VP, but maybe no President. What happens if something happens to Biden? Biden brings alot to the table for Obama. Much, much, experience and knowledge. What happens if Biden bites the big one?
If Biden dies, Obama picks a new VP. It's not that hard. Biden certainly has knowledge and experience, but Obama is going to have an entire staff to rely on, each experts in their fields. Obama's not going to die in office.
Hmmmm.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081014/ap_on_el_pr/health_care_candidates
The economic condition is shit and the only thing these fuckers can think about is making the problem worse by lying to us all. Neither has the money to do shit about healthcare. And if they get their plans passed by putting us in worse debt, I'm movin. ;D It would be a damn shame if the dems, for example, let the dem President, Obama, spend this kind of money right now. Dem house, Dem congress, Dem President. Disaster surely will happen in this case. There would be no balance and Nancy is a fucking idiot fuck up. A complete waste of air.
So both these guys are lying their ass off about the intention of spending the shit out of money we don't have.....and we should vote for one of these guy's, why? So we can speed up the fuck up's we've already experienced? Health care, answer....spend money....War, keep it the same, or move it to Afganastan and Pakistan....continue to spend money....Economy, spend more money.....Debt, ignore it....Do we learn from the mess of deregulation and bad loans, no, we as government do the same thing, buy bad debt. Houston, we have a problem and there is no CHANGE in sight. We are trying to fix a problem with the same bad solutions that got us here in the first place. Some times, you just have to say, fuck it. Now is one of those times.
Hook, something HAS to be done about healthcare. Call it what you will, we pay for it anyway. If we let people decay into emergency situations without preventive care or simple early treatment, and they have no health insurance, then they die in a hospital, admitted on an emergency basis, at an even more exorbitant cost.
For example, cancer. Cancer screening, and chemotherapy/radiation therapy for treatable cancers, is on an order of magnitude cheaper treatment than paying for someone to die in a hospital when it is too late to treat that cancer.
Obama's plan costs something like $5 billion more than McCain's, but insures something around 25 million more people. That's smart governance.
The only other solution is to let people die and refuse them treatment in the ER. Currently, that is illegal, and regardless, it is immoral.
Anyway, McCain's going to win Alabama by between 20 and 30 percentage points. You needn't worry about your vote either way.
On your other point, we had a Republican house and Senate with a Republican president for 5+ years, and what did they manage to do to save the country? Jack and shit. A Democratic house, Senate, and executive can't be anything but a change for the better.
Yes, something has to be done about healthcare, I agree. But not this year, not until we get the economy moving, draw down the debt, etc. We don't have the money. Why should the government be allowed to do what most money people will advise agaist? Isn't that part of our problem in America?
I know my vote won't really count, and that's a damn shame. We need to fix that to. Why can't we vote, and then count the things and the one with the most votes wins? Damn. That's the only way every vote would actually count. It's just wrong that any person be in my position where their vote doesn't mean shit.
Hookbender — Oct 15, 2008Yes, something has to be done about healthcare, I agree. But not this year, not until we get the economy moving, draw down the debt, etc. We don't have the money. Why should the government be allowed to do what most money people will advise agaist? Isn't that part of our problem in America?
I know my vote won't really count, and that's a damn shame. We need to fix that to. Why can't we vote, and then count the things and the one with the most votes wins? Damn. That's the only way every vote would actually count. It's just wrong that any person be in my position where their vote doesn't mean shit.
Wow, then we might actually see the candidates in California, instead of watching them campaign every year in only Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida...
If we can't fix the economy and work to fix healthcare at the same time, what good are we?
Obviously it all can't happen right away, but at least to put ourselves on the PATH to fixing these issues would be smart.
Personally, I think a big "Space Program" sort of infrastructure project would be splendid, because it would put millions of Americans to work, and it would throw a lot more back into the economy than the money spent for it, because people would have jobs, and when they were done, we'd have a much-improved infrastructure - real, tangible things that can help the economy flourish. Obama won big points with me when he suggested this as part of his plan, because it's honestly something I've wanted to see for at least 5 years (at least that's when I started thinking about it).
And if that worked, the newly-flush-with-cash economy would only benefit from finding new ways to solve the healthcare issue for Americans who have a hard time affording it.
Tripper
charger — Oct 15, 2008[quote author=Hookbender link=1223772829/25#44 date=1224082104]Yes, something has to be done about healthcare, I agree. But not this year, not until we get the economy moving, draw down the debt, etc. We don't have the money. Why should the government be allowed to do what most money people will advise agaist? Isn't that part of our problem in America?
I know my vote won't really count, and that's a damn shame. We need to fix that to. Why can't we vote, and then count the things and the one with the most votes wins? Damn. That's the only way every vote would actually count. It's just wrong that any person be in my position where their vote doesn't mean shit.
Wow, then we might actually see the candidates in California, instead of watching them campaign every year in only Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida...
I find it pleasant and amusing that McCain's spending time in states he should already have wrapped up, and Obama's headed to states he shouldn't have a prayer in...that gives me hope for this country - that they aren't all GOP sycophants shouting "kill him" and bringing little monkeys with Obama stickers on them to rallies.
I watched "Countdown with Keith Olbermann" and "The Rachel Maddow Show" on MSNBC last night, and I just have to say that even though Keith can be an ass (because he is one), I really love his passion and his willingness to call bullshit on people. Unlike the Fox hosts who do it, he actually has principles and has the journalistic acumen to effectively utilize sources and evidence.
I've been a big fan of Rachel since I listened to her on Air America - really cares about public policy and wonky stuff...but does a really good job at pointing out the silliness of a lot of what politicians say (and especially John McCain these days).
They're the lefty answer to O'Reilly and Hannity, but with actual brains and actual evidence.
I know that people who don't agree with how they see things would probably hate them, but they work for me, because the vast majority of the time, their criticisms are material, and not just something they pulled out of their ass.
Olbermann savaged McCain in a short Special Comment last night about the ugliness of the crowds at his rallies. It was pretty hardcore:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj65cFLcpr4My whole point of mentioning the shows is this:
If journalists in the so-called mainstream media can't call people out honestly for their public lies, what good are they? Sarah Palin blatantly LIED about the results of that Troopergate report (and another, more scathing one is probably on the way soon), and you barely heard about it from people who matter (like the nightly news hosts). Why is that?
Or what about McCain trumping up Obama's relationship with ACORN (which Obama clearly laid out when asked about it) and confusing voter registration fraud with voter fraud (two HUGELY different things) when McCain himself was a longtime supporter of ACORN, even giving the keynote speech at an event co-sponsored by them in 2006?
All this bullshit needs to be called, and we have to rely on comedy shows and MSNBC?
It just makes me wonder what's really going on here...
Tripper
P.S. ACORN is being portrayed as the new scary liberal organization by conservatives, in the further interest of demonizing something that helps people who can't help themselves. Gotta love it!
I haven't watched any news at all for about 8 months till about a month ago.
During this time I've watched quite a bit.
I seem to gravitate toward msnbc.
I like "Countdown with Keith Olbermann" and "The Rachel Maddow Show" as well.
Rachel got my attention right of the bat . Don't know anything about her other than watching her most nights the past few weeks.
Um, actually Acorn sucks. I just had to deal with them last week...