The Watering Hole

I checked Rachel's bio....She's smart. I told my wife the other night that ...at least she seems to have a brain.

So craig....what did acorn do that sucked?

It's not something I'd rather get into.  They were referred to me by one of my legislators (a Democrat of course) to help me out of my housing situation.  This was before I heard about all the allegations against them too.  They seem to espouse everything I can't stand about the left.

CraigBert — Oct 15, 2008It's not something I'd rather get into.  They were referred to me by one of my legislators (a Democrat of course) to help me out of my housing situation.  This was before I heard about all the allegations against them too.  They seem to espouse everything I can't stand about the left.

Umm... don't the register voters?  What does that have to do with your housing situation?

Hookbender — Oct 15, 2008I think maybe some of my, mainly, problem is that I look at things from more of a voters perspective than that of my own. I'm gonna try to narrow my views to that of my own. I can't speak for other voters, but I know how I use to think and that may be playing into the opinion I give currently. Maybe I was in the minoriety then too. ;D

I have some problems with the people Obama associated with, his healthcare plan, lack of info on addressing the debt, I'm not sure what he means by delaying some of his current plans.

Everyone is addressing the possibility that if something were to happen to McCain, Palin would be president. That's fine and kinda understandable. On the job training is probably acceptable as VP, but maybe no President. What happens if something happens to Biden? Biden brings alot to the table for Obama. Much, much, experience and knowledge. What happens if Biden bites the big one?

If your concerned about Ayers...have you considered what your "favorite" news source says about it?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95442902

Are you also concerned bout McCain's associations?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cliff-schecter/john-mccains-white-suprem_b_99014.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

This is pretty funny:

http://www.republicansforobama.org/?q=node/3027

Oh yeah and he's best friends with Liddy.

Point is...there really is no reason to be afraid of Obama. Nothing that's concerning. And when you compare what might be concerning agaist Obama to what might be concerning about the McCain campaign ...McCain losses.

And BTW, who's been using Ayers to try to further his political career?

McCain?   ;D

charger — Oct 15, 2008[quote author=CraigBert link=1223772829/50#51 date=1224098996]It's not something I'd rather get into.  They were referred to me by one of my legislators (a Democrat of course) to help me out of my housing situation.  This was before I heard about all the allegations against them too.  They seem to espouse everything I can't stand about the left.

Umm... don't the register voters?  What does that have to do with your housing situation?

It has nothing to do with it.  I can only assume that registering (or over registering) voters is a small part of what they do.  Here's their website: http://www.acorn.org/

pickmaster60 — Oct 15, 2008[quote author=Hookbender link=1223772829/25#38 date=1224034945]I think maybe some of my, mainly, problem is that I look at things from more of a voters perspective than that of my own. I'm gonna try to narrow my views to that of my own. I can't speak for other voters, but I know how I use to think and that may be playing into the opinion I give currently. Maybe I was in the minoriety then too. ;D

I have some problems with the people Obama associated with, his healthcare plan, lack of info on addressing the debt, I'm not sure what he means by delaying some of his current plans.

Everyone is addressing the possibility that if something were to happen to McCain, Palin would be president. That's fine and kinda understandable. On the job training is probably acceptable as VP, but maybe no President. What happens if something happens to Biden? Biden brings alot to the table for Obama. Much, much, experience and knowledge. What happens if Biden bites the big one?

If your concerned about Ayers...have you considered what your "favorite" news source says about it?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95442902

Are you also concerned bout McCain's associations?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cliff-schecter/john-mccains-white-suprem_b_99014.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

This is pretty funny:

http://www.republicansforobama.org/?q=node/3027

Oh yeah and he's best friends with Liddy.

Point is...there really is no reason to be afraid of Obama. Nothing that's concerning. And when you compare what might be concerning agaist Obama to what might be concerning about the McCain campaign ...McCain losses.

I'm not voting for McCain so his associations are not of interest to me.

Why would I be afraid of Obama? I have questions concerning issues, and associations. That doesn't amount to afraid in any way.

What concerns I have about Obama are my personal concerns. There is no reason to compare, and I don't know why you feel the need to, McCain to Obama. My stance is clear, I'll vote Obama or not at all. So I'm concerned about Obama's stance on issues, not McCains.

What concerns I have about Obama are my personal concerns

Oh I see.....You want to keep these anxieties and worries private.

pickmaster60 — Oct 16, 2008What concerns I have about Obama are my personal concerns

Oh I see.....You want to keep these anxieties and worries private.




Yeah, he doesn't want Obama moving into his neighborhood and lowering his property prices!

CraigBert — Oct 16, 2008[quote author=pickmaster60 link=1223772829/50#58 date=1224164352]What concerns I have about Obama are my personal concerns

Oh I see.....You want to keep these anxieties and worries private.




Yeah, he doesn't want Obama moving into his neighborhood and lowering his property prices!

Well, according to law, if a woman is white, that's what the Birth Certificate say's Obama is. And considering that, it would break redneck laws to lower property values based on a white man moving into a neighborhood. ;D

Ah, so now you think Obama is white, eh?  Interesting...  ;) ::) :D

If I start checking up...is this gonna pass? :-/

Can I trust that you have done enough research for me to believe it? ;D

pickmaster60 — Oct 16, 2008What concerns I have about Obama are my personal concerns

Oh I see.....You want to keep these anxieties and worries private.




A little straight talk here. Ha! I know you'll love that. ;D

And here's another one for ya....

Let me just say this. 100% of your post to me are, and have been, attack post. The people here don't really care to here it anymore. I'm sure they would rather here our opinions on the issues going forward. Now I can take your attacks for 3 more weeks, but the people here can't take your trivial pointless attacks year after year. ;D ;D

You seem obsessed with my post. Do you think about my post 27-7? Seems to me the interesting part of these debates or discussions is when we discuss the issues. Not my choice of words to describe my thoughts. You have the advantage of knowing me for 40 years. You know me personally, as well as on this forum. You know most of my thoughts and how I think most of the time. Yet it's you who either, intentionally misinterprete my post, or your Alabama education shows up, something. I'm constantly having to explain myself over and over to you....just you. Are you a troll or what?

Now if I'm to take all your criticisms seriously, you first have to display to me a consistent knowledgeable assessment of my post. Your mis-spelled words and poor grammar at times, make one wonder what the hell your problem is.

Constructive critism is fine. And welcomed. No problem. But you frequently changing an issue from one of substance to petty bullshit doesn't really give me a hard on, ya know?  ;D

And you listen to Blues alot righ? I know you do. Seems strange to me that you understand the lyrics of that music but can't understand plain, general, basic english.

You may, in addition to your personality disorder, need to check out Obsessive Compulsive disorder as well. ;D ;D ;D

Ta! Ta!

How bizarre! ;D

You seem obsessed with my post. Do you think about my post 27-7?   Yet it's you who either, intentionally misinterprete my post....  
 
.... you first have to display to me a consistent knowledgeable assessment of my post.  

100% of your post to me are..... attack post!
 
..... doesn't really give my post a hard on, ya know?    

Your post?? ;D ;D

Your post is not hard for me? ...that's ok. I'd rather keep it that way if you don't mind! ;D

Hookbender — Oct 16, 2008A little straight talk here. Ha! I know you'll love that. ;D

And here's another one for ya....

Let me just say this. 100% of your post to me are, and have been, attack post. The people here don't really care to here it anymore. I'm sure they would rather here our opinions on the issues going forward. Now I can take your attacks for 3 more weeks, but the people here can't take your trivial pointless attacks year after year. ;D ;D

You seem obsessed with my post. Do you think about my post 27-7? Seems to me the interesting part of these debates or discussions is when we discuss the issues. Not my choice of words to describe my thoughts. You have the advantage of knowing me for 40 years. You know me personally, as well as on this forum. You know most of my thoughts and how I think most of the time. Yet it's you who either, intentionally misinterprete my post, or your Alabama education shows up, something. I'm constantly having to explain myself over and over to you....just you. Are you a troll or what?

Now if I'm to take all your criticisms seriously, you first have to display to me a consistent knowledgeable assessment of my post. Your mis-spelled words and poor grammar at times, make one wonder what the hell your problem is.

This needed to be made fun of for no other reasons than the irony of the last sentence I included above and my own personal amusement! ;) :D ;D

Here's a "corrected" version of the above (where the parts in red have been adjusted, ignoring personal style choices that could have been worded differently):

Let me just say this: 100% of your posts to me are, and have been, attack posts. The people here don't really care to hear it anymore. I'm sure they would rather hear our opinions on the issues going forward. Now I can take your attacks for three more weeks, but the people here can't take your trivial, pointless attacks year after year.

You seem obsessed with my posts. Do you think about my posts 24/7? Seems to me, the interesting parts of these debates or discussions are when we discuss the issues, not my choice of words to describe my thoughts. You have the advantage of knowing me for 40 years. You know me personally as well as on this forum. You know most of my thoughts and how I think most of the time, yet it's you who either intentionally misinterprets my posts, has your Alabama education show up, or something. I'm constantly having to explain myself over and over to you. Just you.  Are you a troll or what?

Now if I'm to take all your criticisms seriously, you first have to display to me a consistent knowledgeable assessment of my post. Your misspelled words and poor grammar at times, make one wonder what the hell your problem is.

Colin Powell says he will vote Obama.
I really like Colin and how he explains things.

I saw him outside saying how silly it was to try and connect Ayers to Obama ect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiLIWTs2Suo

Palin on SNL was a letdown. Just boring as hell.

You saw him outside???

Like outside your house? Fuck, is he a redneck? Was he in Alabama? Outside as opposite from inside?

Was he chasing deer in your backyard?

;D ;D

He was outside after the interview I suppose.
There were a bunch of repoters talking to him right after it was aired.
When I find it I will give a link if you want it.
Probably even if you don't.  ;D

Anyway ...I'm glad to see him give this endorsement. He's a Republican who's character is almost beyond reproach confirming what many of us here have been saying.

Perhaps it will ease your personal concerns you have with Obama since your "favorite" news channel (NPR) hasn't.

You suppose he was outside? Like, why could you not tell where the man was? Damn???? You sure you know what your talking about? Did you see anything at all? ;D

It's not one association I'm concerned about. It isn't just one issue either. Some concerns are aspects of an issue in which I agree with some things and dislike others, like the war in Iraq, for example. I like that he wants out of Iraq, but he seems to want to replace Iraq possibly with Pakistan. 

I saw clips of him outside as well.  

He's defny outside of his party.

I like that he wants out of Iraq, but he seems to want to replace Iraq possibly with Pakistan.  

If you have evidence of that I'd like to see it.

I have heard him say that if we know some high profile targets are held up in Pakistan just across the border and Pakistan's government won't get them, he would. He's not talking about invading Pakistan like Iraq.

Officially they are our allies.

pickmaster60 — Oct 20, 2008I like that he wants out of Iraq, but he seems to want to replace Iraq possibly with Pakistan.  

If you have evidence of that I'd like to see it.

I have heard him say that if we know some high profile targets are held up in Pakistan just across the border and Pakistan's government won't get them, he would. He's not talking about invading Pakistan like Iraq.

Officially they are our allies.









That's what I'm talking about. Going into Pakistan and hitting targets without Pakistan's permission. Or with their permission. So we add to the list of areas to practice war, Pakistan. Gonna be hard to end the war in Iraq that cost millions of dollars only to add another country to the list of potentials. So we would be in Iraq, Pakistan, and Afganastan. Cause we really won't be able to pull all troops out of Iraq, realistically speeking, truthfully speaking that is.

In reality, this war will never end. I guess.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/jul/16obama.htm


""I've also said that we'll leave a residual force there to engage in counter-terrorism activities inside Iraq, as well, to protect our bases and our diplomats and civilian workers there. But this gives us ample time to wind this thing down in a way that allows us to support what's happening in Afghanistan and relieves the extraordinary stresses that have been placed on military families," he added."

So I guess we will have bases and military in Iraq forever.

I like that he wants out of Iraq, but he seems to want to replace Iraq possibly with Pakistan.  

That's what I'm talking about. Going into Pakistan and hitting targets without Pakistan's permission.

But that is not replacing Iraq with Pakistan.

Gonna be hard to end the war in Iraq that cost millions of dollars only to add another country to the list of potentials

Try 12 billion a month..... not millions.

I don't know what the cost of maintaining bases, more than one, would be and I don't know how many troops he plans to keep their. Lots of questions unanswered, as usual. Plus going after targets that form their after most our troops leave. And he said he would have to talk with comanders on the ground and consider their recomendations. So who knows if it will ever happen, really.

Then theirs Iran to deal with. Hopefully his talks with them will be effective.  

That's what I'm talking about. Going into Pakistan and hitting targets without Pakistan's permission.

We are already going across the border.Missles and men.

I know.

Putting bases on both sides of Iran has been part of the goals.

So Hook....what is your concern about Obama regarding Pakistan?

pickmaster60 — Oct 20, 2008So Hook....what is your concern about Obama regarding Pakistan?

That he'll join the Taliban?  :D ;D

pickmaster60 — Oct 20, 2008So Hook....what is your concern about Obama regarding Pakistan?

Only the one's I've already mentioned above. Would you like me to restate my concerns about you? ;D ;D

CraigBert — Oct 16, 2008[quote author=charger link=1223772829/50#52 date=1224106429][quote author=CraigBert link=1223772829/50#51 date=1224098996]It's not something I'd rather get into.  They were referred to me by one of my legislators (a Democrat of course) to help me out of my housing situation.  This was before I heard about all the allegations against them too.  They seem to espouse everything I can't stand about the left.

Umm... don't the register voters?  What does that have to do with your housing situation?

It has nothing to do with it.  I can only assume that registering (or over registering) voters is a small part of what they do.  Here's their website: http://www.acorn.org/


You do know that over-registering voters doesn't generally lead to vote fraud, right? I mean, Superman and Dick Woody will not show up to the polls to vote. I'm just saying...

Tripper

Ohh, but Jesus will. ;D

Tripper — Oct 20, 2008[quote author=CraigBert link=1223772829/50#56 date=1224118996][quote author=charger link=1223772829/50#52 date=1224106429][quote author=CraigBert link=1223772829/50#51 date=1224098996]It's not something I'd rather get into.  They were referred to me by one of my legislators (a Democrat of course) to help me out of my housing situation.  This was before I heard about all the allegations against them too.  They seem to espouse everything I can't stand about the left.

Umm... don't the register voters?  What does that have to do with your housing situation?

It has nothing to do with it.  I can only assume that registering (or over registering) voters is a small part of what they do.  Here's their website: http://www.acorn.org/


You do know that over-registering voters doesn't generally lead to vote fraud, right? I mean, Superman and Dick Woody will not show up to the polls to vote. I'm just saying...

Tripper

Since you quoted my replies I can only assume that you're saying that to me, right?  And I can respond by saying I have no idea about any impact that their registering has.  It wasn't something I heard much about or cared much about.

I thought it was funny that Huckabee had two people on his show who filled out/signed multiple reg forms.  They said they felt sorry for the ACORN people, some of whom they knew, and wanted to help get them paid plus they offered a cig or a dollar.  Huckabee kept talking about ACORN fraud and how it threatens the election while praising his guests for being "honest" and coming forward.  Well Huckee baby, your guests are the perps.

CraigBert — Oct 20, 2008[quote author=Tripper link=1223772829/75#83 date=1224516788][quote author=CraigBert link=1223772829/50#56 date=1224118996][quote author=charger link=1223772829/50#52 date=1224106429][quote author=CraigBert link=1223772829/50#51 date=1224098996]It's not something I'd rather get into.  They were referred to me by one of my legislators (a Democrat of course) to help me out of my housing situation.  This was before I heard about all the allegations against them too.  They seem to espouse everything I can't stand about the left.

Umm... don't the register voters?  What does that have to do with your housing situation?

It has nothing to do with it.  I can only assume that registering (or over registering) voters is a small part of what they do.  Here's their website: http://www.acorn.org/

You do know that over-registering voters doesn't generally lead to vote fraud, right? I mean, Superman and Dick Woody will not show up to the polls to vote. I'm just saying...

Tripper

Since you quoted my replies I can only assume that you're saying that to me, right?  And I can respond by saying I have no idea about any impact that their registering has.  It wasn't something I heard much about or cared much about.

I was just using your posts to make sure the distinction between "voter registration fraud" and "voter fraud" is clear (it's far too often ignored by those who seem to want to crucify ACORN or claim that Dems are trying to fix the election)

Voter registration fraud is what happens when you hire people to register people and pay them based on meeting quotas (numbers of people registered), much like ACORN and other groups have done. Contrary to the wild claims of right-wing pundits and the McCain campaign, it doesn't mean any of those extra "voters" will show up to vote, it just means someone filled in a bunch of extra names to make some money. It happens to all organizations who try and register people.

Voter fraud is when someone votes illegally - in the actual ACT of voting, not the registration process. That's a big deal.

Voter registration fraud is common and mostly harmless - voter fraud is not as common and a danger to democracy.
Tripper

You're kidding right?  Over registration DOES lead to voter fraud (why else would they register more than once?).  And these people aren't showing up at the voting boothes as Donald Duck or Mickey Mouse, they're filling out absentee ballots as John Smith, Jim Smith, etc.

CraigBert — Oct 23, 2008You're kidding right?  Over registration DOES lead to voter fraud (why else would they register more than once?).  And these people aren't showing up at the voting boothes as Donald Duck or Mickey Mouse, they're filling out absentee ballots as John Smith, Jim Smith, etc.

But you're ignoring the facts here. Most false registrations DID have ridiculous names on them, and historically, very few instances of registration fraud lead to vote fraud. That's just a fact.

It's comparably easy to commit registration fraud - far more difficult than committing vote fraud.

I have an old address on my drivers license (I moved 1.2 miles - I'm in the same precinct and everything), and I hadn't updated it, and I had to jump through 15 minutes of hoops to be able to vote today...and I'm already a registered voter.

I think the GOP's done a good job at creating the fantasy that registration fraud and vote fraud are the same thing. I sincerely hope you haven't bought into that fiction.
Tripper

CraigBert — Oct 23, 2008You're kidding right?  Over registration DOES lead to voter fraud (why else would they register more than once?).

For the money, cigs or a beer.
The reality is this that few of even the legitimate registrations will translate into real votes - these fraudulent registrations would require someone to turn up with ID to actually vote - hardly likely now even if some "conspiracy" was actually in action it won't fly now - under the scrutiny even legitimate votes will be presented as suspect.

And In any case ACORN only managed to register 1.3 million new voters anyway.

This story is ALL about real voting fraud though.

Voting fraud requires organisation.
By far the easiest way to enact voting fraud is to put roadblocks in the way of people voting for your opponents.

Expect roadblocks about the requirement for the level of  ID procedures  that discriminate disproportionately against "ghetto" voters and scare them away.
And the usual "problems" in some areas  with voting machines - ones that slow the voting down to levels where queues form and people give up.
Shit - just rely on police intimidation to scare the "wrong" kind of people off.
That is the real fraud.


Don't think it matters for Obama now - his real source of new voters will be among the the usually low young turnout and that won't be so easy to target for fraud as "ethnic" areas.

I used to think a lot of McCain , still do, he is essentially a decent person.

But since he has now got stuck in the grips of the republican attack machine he seems to have been crippled to nothing more than the "talent" in the hands of aggressive party management.

You can imagine the campaign meetings with the party dogs of war -

"Err - yes John,  much as we value your input - we call the gigs, we call the press, we set the agenda - you have only one job get out there and do your act where and when we ask"

Bush was clearly happy to simply be the front man for the republican corporation - and it won him elections.
McCain is clearly not happy with it, but being behind on the polls means his only hope is the kind of miracle that they can produce on election day where polls don't translate into votes.

Obama - he is clearly in control of his campaign.
McCain can't even put his stamp of  leadership on his own election campaign - it doesn't bode well for his leadership qualities if he becomes president, he will be in the hands of those who got him elected - much like Bush was.

Its always interesting to listen to Hannity and rush.  Do you think they knows how stupid they sound?

Last week it was,  "don't listen to the polls, they're fake,  McCain is really ahead of obama"    and the "economy is still strong"

This week its, "If Obama wins, I told you so"  I told the republicans what to do and they didn't follow my advice."

Now Haniity and Rush will spend the next 4 years bad mouthing our administration which is really sad  and really shows they're unamerican unlike what they preach.

Hannity and Rush - really, right-wing talk radio hosts in general - have created this divisive political culture we "enjoy". George Bush, through his callous attitude and ineptness as a leader, has made it what it is today.

Obama seeks to stop it, McCain seeks to make it worse so he can win and have probably more than half the country hating his ass before he's even fucked anything up (which he's bound to do, since he won't really be in charge).

I hate to sound like Joe Biden (the non-gaffe version), but "that's not change - that's more of the same!"

People not of the right-wing variety have been bitching about these assholes and their lies for years. It's nice that now the more rational sort of conservative-leaning folks are realizing how unbelievably full of shit douchenozzles like Hannity, Limbaugh, and O'Reilly truly are.

Tripper

The federal government has prosecuted something around 80 cases of actual VOTE fraud in the last few elections. Out of hundreds of millions of votes?  Irrelevant.  Voter registration fraud is a completely different thing... you can certainly register Mickey Mouse 800 times, but for it to become VOTE FRAUD, someone actually has to show up to vote as that voter, and be allowed to vote.  

Far more common than vote fraud (which statistically does not even exist) is what we will see this election... voter suppression, votes "lost" or switched by machines, and voters illegally removed from voting rolls or challenged and not allowed to vote.  Because Democrats have a registration advantage of about 6% nationally (and in some areas, much more than that, this year in particular), it is in the Democrats' interest to get as many voters to vote as possible.  It is in Republicans' interest to suppress the vote, as fewer voters overall increases their chances of winning.

Here's a summary of the VOTE FRAUD issue:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html

Tripper — Oct 24, 2008Hannity and Rush - really, right-wing talk radio hosts in general - have created this divisive political culture we "enjoy". George Bush, through his callous attitude and ineptness as a leader, has made it what it is today.

Obama seeks to stop it, McCain seeks to make it worse so he can win and have probably more than half the country hating his ass before he's even fucked anything up (which he's bound to do, since he won't really be in charge).

I hate to sound like Joe Biden (the non-gaffe version), but "that's not change - that's more of the same!"

People not of the right-wing variety have been bitching about these assholes and their lies for years. It's nice that now the more rational sort of conservative-leaning folks are realizing how unbelievably full of shit douchenozzles like Hannity, Limbaugh, and O'Reilly truly are.

Tripper

I hope this is a move away from the far right wing in general. It looks that way to me with all these more moderate Repubs distancing themselves from McCain.

pickmaster60 — Oct 25, 2008[quote author=Tripper link=1223772829/75#92 date=1224882998]Hannity and Rush - really, right-wing talk radio hosts in general - have created this divisive political culture we "enjoy". George Bush, through his callous attitude and ineptness as a leader, has made it what it is today.

Obama seeks to stop it, McCain seeks to make it worse so he can win and have probably more than half the country hating his ass before he's even fucked anything up (which he's bound to do, since he won't really be in charge).

I hate to sound like Joe Biden (the non-gaffe version), but "that's not change - that's more of the same!"

People not of the right-wing variety have been bitching about these assholes and their lies for years. It's nice that now the more rational sort of conservative-leaning folks are realizing how unbelievably full of shit douchenozzles like Hannity, Limbaugh, and O'Reilly truly are.

Tripper

I hope this is a move away from the far right wing in general. It looks that way to me with all these more moderate Repubs distancing themselves from McCain.


And the worst part (for him) is, if John McCain had stayed true to the genial, respectful, right-center politician that he was for most of his career, he wouldn't have lost those people. He's a fucking idiot, simply because he sold his soul in hopes of being elected, and now it looks as though it was for nothing.

Tripper

the better ticket would have been:

pres:  colin powell
vp:  obama