66 posts
$500 million in new SPENDING. More government jobs. Goddamn does it ever end???
Hussein was a problem too. Do you defend Bush's handling of that problem as you seem to with Obama and this border thing? Fuck it, it's only money, right?
Wonder if the fuckers in Washington have a commission to study the most economical way to solve problems? Maybe that should be the next expense Obama needs to add to the list. Or, any other President for that matter.
I think BamBam's border jam will be cheaper. Btw, I'm not defending this move just saying everything costs and depending on yer views you'll accept spending or you won't.
I'm saying fuck your "views", we don't have money to spend right now. We need to be cutting back, not spending. Views on this issue are like opinions on God, lacking logical thinking and definetely closed minded to think this is the only option on the table. Hell, start shooting the fuckers. They'll think twice then. ;D Not kill them, just a small bullet in the leg or legs. ;D
I doubt they'll think twice, people shoot at them all the time.
Chase doesn't want more spending but his "views" will let him be ok with this spending. We pick and choose what we like. If you believe the polls the majority of the country want to "close" the border... this will cost.
Hostile much, Hook?
I mean, I don't support this move, but my views on illegal immigration probably differ greatly from yours. Right now if the government spent $1 million to make the sun rise tomorrow, you'd have something negative to say about that too. Your "no spending" mantra is unrealistic and untenable.
Unrealistic??? Really?
It's unrealistic for me to suggest we don't have 500 million dollars to spend? Is it really? Is it unrealistic for me to expect Obama to do what he said he would also? Make cuts in unnessary spending?
I don't think it's unrealistic at all to stop spending money we don't have.
Hookbender — May 26, 2010Hussein was a problem too. Do you defend Bush's handling of that problem as you seem to with Obama and this border thing? Fuck it, it's only money, right?
Wonder if the fuckers in Washington have a commission to study the most economical way to solve problems? Maybe that should be the next expense Obama needs to add to the list. Or, any other President for that matter.
This is still hilarious to me.
Yeah, 1200 troops on the Arizona border is just like invading Iraq.
Glad you've kept up with current events.
Hookbender — May 26, 2010Unrealistic??? Really?
It's unrealistic for me to suggest we don't have 500 million dollars to spend? Is it really? Is it unrealistic for me to expect Obama to do what he said he would also? Make cuts in unnessary spending?
I don't think it's unrealistic at all to stop spending money we don't have.
Then you should dig the pub plan - 6,000 Guardsmen + 2 billion.
BINGEWOOD — May 26, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1274815922/0#8 date=1274871367]Unrealistic??? Really?
It's unrealistic for me to suggest we don't have 500 million dollars to spend? Is it really? Is it unrealistic for me to expect Obama to do what he said he would also? Make cuts in unnessary spending?
I don't think it's unrealistic at all to stop spending money we don't have.
Then you should dig the pub plan - 6,000 Guardsmen + 2 billion.
But... wait... Hook is voting for those guys! I found that stuff too, on Fox News. No need to point it out... or that this war bill will bring the cost of Bush's wars to $1 trillion.
that isn't fair. fucking ron paul would have invaded afghanistan, and he is about as isolationist as they come.
chase — May 26, 2010that isn't fair. fucking ron paul would have invaded afghanistan, and he is about as isolationist as they come.
Scared trumps ideology...with time, ideology returns.
Obviously this is in response to that Arizona "Challenge anyone who looks Mexican" Law.
It costs a lot of money running a police state law like that and impinges on lawful Americans constitutional right to look swarthy.
charger — May 26, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1274815922/0#3 date=1274837248]Hussein was a problem too. Do you defend Bush's handling of that problem as you seem to with Obama and this border thing? Fuck it, it's only money, right?
Wonder if the fuckers in Washington have a commission to study the most economical way to solve problems? Maybe that should be the next expense Obama needs to add to the list. Or, any other President for that matter.
This is still hilarious to me.
Yeah, 1200 troops on the Arizona border is just like invading Iraq.
Glad you've kept up with current events.
Is that what you understood my post to say? Because you sure missed the point. You as liberal as Stratman was conservative. "The" current event is Obama spending 500 million more dollars we don't have.
If the republicans put up a decent candidate, not a sarah palin idiot, yes...I'll vote for them or him. But they have to be concerned and committed to cutting spending, decrease the size of government, and have a plan to deal with the deficit.
My guess is taxes are going up, accross the board. And my second guess is that this is because of government spending, for the most part.
If these things aren't addressed, I just won't vote. This spending money and increasing the size of government every month has to fucking stop.
Ron Paul wouldn't have invaded Iraq. Period.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=3978940&page=1
Hookbender — May 27, 2010Ron Paul wouldn't have invaded Iraq. Period.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=3978940&page=1
As Bingewood would say, "NOICE!" :)
Hookbender — May 27, 2010Ron Paul wouldn't have invaded Iraq. Period.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=3978940&page=1
never said anything about iraq.
charger — May 26, 2010Iraq?
I didn't think so.
didn't say so for a reason
chase — May 27, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1274815922/0#18 date=1274927690]Ron Paul wouldn't have invaded Iraq. Period.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=3978940&page=1
never said anything about iraq.
I never said anything about Chase. This post was intended to back up Chargers post or comment concerning Iraq.
Hookbender — May 27, 2010[quote author=charger link=1274815922/0#9 date=1274894724][quote author=Hookbender link=1274815922/0#3 date=1274837248]Hussein was a problem too. Do you defend Bush's handling of that problem as you seem to with Obama and this border thing? Fuck it, it's only money, right?
Wonder if the fuckers in Washington have a commission to study the most economical way to solve problems? Maybe that should be the next expense Obama needs to add to the list. Or, any other President for that matter.
This is still hilarious to me.
Yeah, 1200 troops on the Arizona border is just like invading Iraq.
Glad you've kept up with current events.
Is that what you understood my post to say? Because you sure missed the point. You as liberal as Stratman was conservative. "The" current event is Obama spending 500 million more dollars we don't have.
He's spending 1.5 billion less than your darlings are.
If you think "The Republicans" care about runaway spending, you must have missed the years between 2000 and 2008, when they spent like Wall Street brokers on a cocaine binge. Yes, they "care" now. Because they see a political advantage in it. Get them in power, and they would do the same thing Obama is doing, only they would spend it on shit that would help other rich people instead of poor people. The difference between liberals and conservatives is not in the amount of spending, it's in who benefits. W
charger — May 27, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1274815922/0#16 date=1274926186][quote author=charger link=1274815922/0#9 date=1274894724][quote author=Hookbender link=1274815922/0#3 date=1274837248]Hussein was a problem too. Do you defend Bush's handling of that problem as you seem to with Obama and this border thing? Fuck it, it's only money, right?
Wonder if the fuckers in Washington have a commission to study the most economical way to solve problems? Maybe that should be the next expense Obama needs to add to the list. Or, any other President for that matter.
This is still hilarious to me.
Yeah, 1200 troops on the Arizona border is just like invading Iraq.
Glad you've kept up with current events.
Is that what you understood my post to say? Because you sure missed the point. You as liberal as Stratman was conservative. "The" current event is Obama spending 500 million more dollars we don't have.
He's spending 1.5 billion less than your darlings are.
If you think "The Republicans" care about runaway spending, you must have missed the years between 2000 and 2008, when they spent like Wall Street brokers on a cocaine binge. Yes, they "care" now. Because they see a political advantage in it. Get them in power, and they would do the same thing Obama is doing, only they would spend it on shit that would help other rich people instead of poor people. The difference between liberals and conservatives is not in the amount of spending, it's in who benefits. W
that is what modern corrupt supposedly conservative leadership has done, not what the ideal is. ideologically the gap is much larger
I absolutely agree. Ideologically, there
are massive gaps. But I have seen no reason to trust conservatives and their talk. They had the country for eight years, and I saw:
- massive perversions of individual liberties, which they supposedly do not support
- big government expansions, which they supposedly do not support
- spending like Lindsay Lohan in a crackhouse, which they supposedly do not support
About the only thing they really oversaw and enacted that they do support were tax cuts (which certainly didn't help the deficit any) and lack of regulation (which, let's just say, has not helped in either the financial industry or in the minerals management department)
Sure, they can run on rhetoric, but I don't buy it. I believe people like Ron Paul and his nutso son, that they actually would stick to some sort of principle, but their principles are pretty much insane, so I wouldn't vote for them... that's a different issue. The majority of politicians, when the carrot is waved, bow before it, regardless of what they claim when they are campaigning.
i trust nobody either. ideologically i am a conservative though
What do you think about Rand Paul? I see him as interesting... he hews so strongly to his libertarianism that it is bound to keep getting him into more and more hot water. However, he's been consistent so far. I think all the "system" Pubs who were so excited about the Tea Party are now wondering if they hitched their wagon to a rabid horse...
What is conservative ?
Take the much vaunted value of Freedom of the individual from the State.
Neocon Project for a New American Century Conservatism = Statist
Religious conservatism- Statist
That unholy alliance was the conservatism underpinning the Bush years.
Tea Party - from the little I have read, is small minded conservatism - racist, foreigners are the problem where simplistic ignorance is celebrated.
All National Socialist in one way or another.
The only thing they can all agree on is state power through a socialist military complex.
Ron Paul has a mix of views - most are libertarian.
I am a pragmatic libertarian by instinct - but I reject ideology as superstition - ideology is a quasi religious approach that trucks no argument.
I find myself agreeing with much of what Ron Paul has to say - but he is defintiely no national socialist.
for instance
It's odd to hear someone admit the real reason for any government program, much less those that benefit the military-industrial sector. Yet Deputy Defense Secretary William Pery accidentally stated the truth recently when discussing nudear submarines, aircraft carriers, and tanks and other armored vehicles. "We need to maintain some sort of capability for designing, building and producing armed vehicles." Not a word about defense, the supposed reason we need these things in the first place. Perry also said some type of protection of these industries is necessary to preserve jobs. Increasingly, the military looks much like a huge public works project.
I made a point very similar to that in another thread
So - Is he a conservative ?
He has some ideas about economics that are just stupid and I mean really stupid.
Gold standard - the value of all the gold in world is currently about $6 trillion and at a cuurent inflated shock price of $1200
World GDP is est @ $61tn
The only way to return to a gold standard is to make it 10x the current price - and what difference would it make - none.
Or shrink the money supply by 10x - it is ludicrous.
The economic problems would still remain - it is some medieval arguing about how many angels can fit on a pin.
But he has positions that are very radical in other ways and the capitalist system does need reforming if only to make it more a level playing field so that vested interest is challenged routinely.
Big companies should not grow into monoliths, being big should mean being good at managing not good at monopolising.
He is more a right wing hippy though - it's "All you need is Love" equivalent on the left - which is also libertarian.
There needs to be be more of these dreamers in politics - on both sides - if only to challenge the emperors new clothes of the established order - the assumptions.
I think it's just nice to hear a politician speek so down to earth and explain his opinion with common sense applied. I like ole Ron at times on certain issues. He's a breath of fresh air politician, so to speek.
Well, shit Charger. How can you trust liberals?
Obama hasn't closed the prison.
He hasn't cut unnessary spending and infact has continued it.
He's basically purchased auto companies and said he has no interest in doing so.
Now his people say the 1200 troops on the boarder aren't necessarily to stop illegal people from crossing the boarder....their to stop drugs and bad guys from crossing the boarder....which is essentially continuing the war on drugs Bush started.
Biden lies all the time, unintentially, because he's so stupid he doesn't no what he's talking about half the time.
How is Obama's spending helping the poor, or less fortunate? Didn't he just bail out and spend shit loads of money to help the rich business owners, like GM and Chrysler, and more on rich bonus getting insurance companies and banks? Your deluded beach boy. Are you on crack or something?
fingers i'm sure i don't need to explain the logic behind returning to the gold standard to you. the basic idea is to limit the "bubble blowing" that has been the trademark of the fed for the past hundred years. i'm not saying i'm behind the idea, but i am certain something needs to be done about the federal reserve overstepping its rather clearly defined boundaries.
Hookbender — May 27, 2010How is Obama's spending helping the poor, or less fortunate? Didn't he just bail out and spend shit loads of money to help the rich business owners, like GM and Chrysler, and more on rich bonus getting insurance companies and banks? Your deluded beach boy. Are you on crack or something?
Who bailed out the banks and insurance companies? That was Bush. And necessary to prevent catastrophe. Don't be naive.
Yes, Obama bailed out the auto makers. And maybe they should have been allowed to fail. Maybe we shouldn't make cars here. But I find it hard to believe that allowing GM and Chrysler to fail would have helped the American economy or American jobs. Hell, if you were paying attention, you saw how the government allowing Lehman Brothers to fail started a massive implosion.
How does health care help the poor and less fortunate? Um, gee. I have no fucking clue. And also, I find the Sunday comics difficult to understand.
You want to talk about a failure, don't tell me it's Obama's handling of the economy, because from what I see, it's going as well or better than most anyone expected.
Talk to me about the fucking gulf, and BP, and how Obama didn't jump on those fuckers from day one and make sure that shit got stopped. Why are they pouring drilling mud in there in week 5? Why was that not week 1 shit? Relying on BP to tell us the right way to solve the problem... obviously not a good move.
By the way, you think that Sarah Palin has dropped "drill baby drill" from her repartee yet?
Politricks and pennypinch fuxor us again....NOICE backup plans too big bizness + gov! As mah buddy Ollie would say "Real sweet girlz...sweet like molasses." We do so love the ancient creature ooze tho...
I like the part where the removal of the cap keeps getting held up by "mom n' pop oil company" loving corpo cash (R)ecipients. Way to werk on the country's problems, as usual...
+Swill baby swill!
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/05/23/palin-a-slip-on-oil-industry-ties/?mod=rss_WSJBlog&mod=washwire
Rant Paul should stay away from the Rove...it'll help ya win, I doubt Paul will have a problem with this anyway, but being in its presence is oh so hard on the soul. They both do so love the bidness tho...
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=C2631AE5-18FE-70B2-A812F5EDA21931C4Let the gag order begin!
Charger
Do you "trust" liberals?
BINGEWOOD — May 28, 2010Politricks and pennypinch fuxor us again....NOICE backup plans too big bizness + gov! As mah buddy Ollie would say "Real sweet girlz...sweet like molasses." We do so love the ancient creature ooze tho...
I like the part where the removal of the cap keeps getting held up by "mom n' pop oil company" loving corpo cash (R)ecipients. Way to werk on the country's problems, as usual...
+Swill baby swill!
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/05/23/palin-a-slip-on-oil-industry-ties/?mod=rss_WSJBlog&mod=washwire
that woman needs to disappear
Hookbender — May 28, 2010Charger
Do you "trust" liberals?
A lot more than conservatives.
And Obama is not a liberal, don't kid yourself. He's a centrist with a few liberal positions.
charger — May 28, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1274815922/25#36 date=1275046656]Charger
Do you "trust" liberals?
A lot more than conservatives.
And Obama is not a liberal, don't kid yourself. He's a centrist with a few liberal positions.
don't kid yourself. his earlier (pre presidential) speeches and writings show him to be extremely left leaning. why he pulled more towards the center i have no clue.
He wants to get some things done and needs more help than Bernee Sanderz alone can give...haven't seen a ton of "liberal" support or shaping of these bills, more "conservative" input taken without them actually voting for the bills they worked on and they end up pretty centrist throughout.
Conservative and liberal are like Dum and Pube, clubs, and I'll defer to Groucho on clubs..
As for trusting these clubs, I'd trust Bernee Sanderz over any pub based on their actions and the dums aren't much better. Both love politricks and personal gain more than work...I trust in that.
charger — May 28, 2010
Talk to me about the fucking gulf, and BP, and how Obama didn't jump on those fuckers from day one and make sure that shit got stopped. Why are they pouring drilling mud in there in week 5? Why was that not week 1 shit? Relying on BP to tell us the right way to solve the problem... obviously not a good move.
The "Top kill" procedure is risky and can destroy the well head completely making the leak uncontrollable.
Only solution then is to get Transocean and Halliburton out there again drilling new wells to reduce the pressure and hoping they don't fuck up again - which would not be Plan A!!!!
This was last ditch desperation stuff - hope it works.
I hope it works too. We know how to drill into a reservoir but dealing with the earthly forces involved when things go wrong is beyond us..allowing companies to cut corners/drop redundant safety systems because they are "expensive" spending programs helps immensely as well...
Kinda reminds me of the underpants gnomes:
Step 1: Collect underpants
Step 3: Profit!
"By far the most pessimistic take on the oil spill comes from oil guru Matthew Simmons, who was on The Dylan Ratigan Show this afternoon. His warning: There may be no way to stop the leak, and it could take 9000 days (over 24 years) for the gusher to end, while we wait for the well to simply run out."
"Talk to me about the fucking gulf, and BP, and how Obama didn't jump on those fuckers from day one and make sure that shit got stopped. Why are they pouring drilling mud in there in week 5? Why was that not week 1 shit? Relying on BP to tell us the right way to solve the problem... obviously not a good move."
Yeah, you can add that to the list too. This is a worse problem than New Orleans and the hurricane. This is surely gonna sink his battleship. No way he can be re-elected now.
No way? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Hookbender — May 29, 2010"Talk to me about the fucking gulf, and BP, and how Obama didn't jump on those fuckers from day one and make sure that shit got stopped. Why are they pouring drilling mud in there in week 5? Why was that not week 1 shit? Relying on BP to tell us the right way to solve the problem... obviously not a good move."
Yeah, you can add that to the list too. This is a worse problem than New Orleans and the hurricane. This is surely gonna sink his battleship. No way he can be re-elected now.
Oh, I remember so well your response, and how you defended Bush, when we got on his case after Katrina. How the tides have turned. Which administration was it that rubber-stamped the safety checks on these offshore rigs, btw? Surely not anyone you voted for, as you are obviously so clean and pure and idealistically sound when it comes to politics.
It's still pretty hard for me to take you seriously, a guy who voted for Bush twice, when you talk about what a failure this president is.
charger — Jun 01, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1274815922/25#43 date=1275141469]"Talk to me about the fucking gulf, and BP, and how Obama didn't jump on those fuckers from day one and make sure that shit got stopped. Why are they pouring drilling mud in there in week 5? Why was that not week 1 shit? Relying on BP to tell us the right way to solve the problem... obviously not a good move."
Yeah, you can add that to the list too. This is a worse problem than New Orleans and the hurricane. This is surely gonna sink his battleship. No way he can be re-elected now.
Oh, I remember so well your response, and how you defended Bush, when we got on his case after Katrina. How the tides have turned. Which administration was it that rubber-stamped the safety checks on these offshore rigs, btw? Surely not anyone you voted for, as you are obviously so clean and pure and idealistically sound when it comes to politics.
It's still pretty hard for me to take you seriously, a guy who voted for Bush twice, when you talk about what a failure this president is.
Fuck man. You act like one changing his thinking is a bad thing. Yes, I voted for Bush. Yes I voted for Obama. Yes I use to be Religious. Respectfully fuck you. Whatever that means.
I really don't care what you think of me and how you take what I say. I give you my honest opinion, you do or think what you want about it. I don't care.
Katrina and this oil disaster wasn't Bush and Obama's fault. (IMO) They were both handled horribly by out government. The one thing both presidents could do better is to respond quicker. No President is gonna please everyone no matter what they do. But, it's clear our government is slow acting in these two cases. Pretty inexcusable.
What would you have liked him to do? Obviously, there is no successful way to cap this thing until they drill the relief wells. Obama could have been standing on the deck of Horizon itself and, apparently, it wouldn't make a difference. Every attempt to cap it so far has failed.
There's a huge difference between Katrina and the oil spill. Katrina was a natural disaster. Even with a perfect plan, that storm still would have hit land and the levees still would have been breached. The resulting slowness on the part of the government aggravated matters and the response should have been better coordinated and happened faster. The government waited too long to act.
This is not a natural disaster. This is a completely preventable, human-caused disaster. The time to stop this was before it started. Now there is nothing to do but drill relief wells and watch the Gulf get obliterated.
Is your reading of events somehow different from mine? Are you seeing some course of action Obama didn't take that he should have? Do you know the solution that has eluded the BP containment crews?
Katrina? Isn't that when many people died, lost everything they had including their houses, chilled out in the rapedome...etc etc etc
charger — Jun 02, 2010What would you have liked him to do? Obviously, there is no successful way to cap this thing until they drill the relief wells. Obama could have been standing on the deck of Horizon itself and, apparently, it wouldn't make a difference. Every attempt to cap it so far has failed.
There's a huge difference between Katrina and the oil spill. Katrina was a natural disaster. Even with a perfect plan, that storm still would have hit land and the levees still would have been breached. The resulting slowness on the part of the government aggravated matters and the response should have been better coordinated and happened faster. The government waited too long to act.
This is not a natural disaster. This is a completely preventable, human-caused disaster. The time to stop this was before it started. Now there is nothing to do but drill relief wells and watch the Gulf get obliterated.
Is your reading of events somehow different from mine? Are you seeing some course of action Obama didn't take that he should have? Do you know the solution that has eluded the BP containment crews?
Yes. My reading of the events are different. The reading of the events include the reality of the situation and not blind devotion to democrats and liberal defensive crap. Even democrats are pissed about this. Like James Carver, for example.
The governments reaction was, and is, slow as hell on both of these disasters.