The Watering Hole

Politics
66 posts
BINGEWOOD — Jun 02, 2010Katrina? Isn't that when many people died, lost everything they had including their houses, chilled out in the rapedome...etc etc etc



when this is said and done it's my guess that this disaster will be worse than katrina
Hookbender — Jun 02, 2010[quote author=charger link=1274815922/25#47 date=1275451924]What would you have liked him to do?  Obviously, there is no successful way to cap this thing until they drill the relief wells.  Obama could have been standing on the deck of Horizon itself and, apparently, it wouldn't make a difference.  Every attempt to cap it so far has failed.

There's a huge difference between Katrina and the oil spill.  Katrina was a natural disaster.  Even with a perfect plan, that storm still would have hit land and the levees still would have been breached.  The resulting slowness on the part of the government aggravated matters and the response should have been better coordinated and happened faster. The government waited too long to act.  

This is not a natural disaster.  This is a completely preventable, human-caused disaster. The time to stop this was before it started.  Now there is nothing to do but drill relief wells and watch the Gulf get obliterated.  

Is your reading of events somehow different from mine?  Are you seeing some course of action Obama didn't take that he should have?  Do you know the solution that has eluded the BP containment crews?


Yes. My reading of the events are different. The reading of the events include the reality of the situation and not blind devotion to democrats and liberal defensive crap. Even democrats are pissed about this. Like James Carver, for example.

The governments reaction was, and is, slow as hell on both of these disasters.





James Carville wants Obama to get on TV and get mad, and fume, and do the whole Bill Clinton I-feel-your-pain act.  I think that would be nice too.  Would that make you feel better?  Maybe, though who knows.  You don't seem to like Obama enough that there is anything he can do to make you happy.  Obama is very logical, like Spock, and for people who want an emotional leader, it's infuriating.  But--would it help?  What is the actual, physical thing that Obama could and should have done?  All attempts to cap the oil have failed.  Obviously Obama doesn't have a magic wand; likewise, I wouldn't expect him or anyone in his administration to have the scientific acumen to cap this well.  After all, if you've read up on Deep Water Horizon at all you know that this is the deepest drilling rig ever.  The number of people who have experience with this sort of operation are all working on it, and they are very few.  

I'm going to go out on (not much of) a limb here and say maybe this well should never have been drilled.  Maybe we shouldn't be pulling oil up from 5000 feet under water and 30000 feet under the ocean floor...
I don't know what he could do about capping the well or stopping the flow of oil.

How about this as far as getting the oil out of the water though. If there is a possibility of this working at all, it should have started the day after the explosion or so.

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/gulf-oil-spill-supertankers-051310

I like Obama just fine. Maybe to well in fact. Maybe my hope for him to be a complete success and prove the doubters and conservatives wrong is to great a task for any President. Maybe my opinions will prove to be wrong also. Wouldn't bother me a bit to completely wrong on the issues I have with his decision making.  
chase — Jun 02, 2010[quote author=BINGEWOOD link=1274815922/25#48 date=1275458291]Katrina? Isn't that when many people died, lost everything they had including their houses, chilled out in the rapedome...etc etc etc



when this is said and done it's my guess that this disaster will be worse than katrina


I think that's not a guess, it's a fact. Especially if we continue to do nothing about the oil in the water currently, and the new oil flowing like a river into the gulf daily.
I think they should try everything they can too, but then again, I'm not against gov intervention and spending during a crisis.  
I'm not either in this case. I don't feel cost should be considered in helping people after Katrina or to fix and clean up this oil. Surprise, surprise.
And we should have shit loads of this in the water weeks ago.


http://ezinearticles.com/?How-Can-Oil-Containment-Booms-Reduce-Environmental-Impact-After-an-Oil-Spill?&id=4110924

That's another thing Obama could speed up, Charger. Or, that he hasn't done that he could do.
I have to say that the supertanker idea looks brilliant.  Like most people, I had no idea that supertankers could suction oil, or that they had centrifuges in which to separate it from seawater.  If that is true, BP should be doing that right now.  

Oil containment booms are all over the gulf, Hook. But they have been having limited success because of rough waters... the problem with booms is that waves get over them.
Whaddya think?

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/obama-oil-spill-pundits-060210

Do we want the president to be driven by emotion or logic?
Logic, of course. But I'm not asking for emotional break downs. I'm asking for logical actions, not neutral indecision. If Obama can't stop the flow of oil, he can surely minimize the damage to our coast line and attempt to get some oil out of the water.  He at least can make a difference. Or could have made a difference. Neither he nor his staff no much about oil spills of this magnitude, they gave the fix to BP, so they need to focus on what they CAN do and that is to help as much as possible to prevent damage to coast lines and ocean. Common sense. It doesn't exist in politics.  
I have to believe that is what is being done.  However, I am not on the ground and I don't know.  Supertankers look like an idea that has been floated.  The CEO of BP shot it down for various reasons, none of which seem to make much sense.  I have seen that the federal government has made some calls on containment and coastal cleanup without consulting BP so I have to assume that they are relying on some sort of authority and intelligence outside of BP.  However, when a few million barrels spill, some of that oil is going to reach shore.  It's a question of how much, and what can be done to contain it.  From what I've seen, they are doing a fair job of containment, but not a great job.
Saw this new guy Thad on CSPAN today, looks like they finally have a real straight-shooter involved.  Of course, I can only ask, what the hell took so long???  :-?
CraigBert — Jun 03, 2010Saw this new guy Thad on CSPAN today, looks like they finally have a real straight-shooter involved.  Of course, I can only ask, what the hell took so long???  :-?


You do realize he's been in charge since May 1st?  He only just started showing up on cable shows, though.


http://www.marinelog.com/DOCS/NEWSMMIX/2010may00010.html
Obama is driven by politics.

It is the spock like logic of that
charger — Jun 03, 2010[quote author=CraigBert link=1274815922/50#61 date=1275586492]Saw this new guy Thad on CSPAN today, looks like they finally have a real straight-shooter involved.  Of course, I can only ask, what the hell took so long???  :-?


You do realize he's been in charge since May 1st?  He only just started showing up on cable shows, though.


http://www.marinelog.com/DOCS/NEWSMMIX/2010may00010.html

surely you realise he is nothing more than PR - he can do Morten Freeman style commentary.
With Cameron shooting the movie.

Meanwhile - back in the cave.


charger — Jun 03, 2010I have to believe that is what is being done.  However, I am not on the ground and I don't know.  Supertankers look like an idea that has been floated.  The CEO of BP shot it down for various reasons, none of which seem to make much sense.  I have seen that the federal government has made some calls on containment and coastal cleanup without consulting BP so I have to assume that they are relying on some sort of authority and intelligence outside of BP.  However, when a few million barrels spill, some of that oil is going to reach shore.  It's a question of how much, and what can be done to contain it.  From what I've seen, they are doing a fair job of containment, but not a great job.


I think supertankers should be out there sucking the damn oil up, as much as possible. It works, the method has been used before. Why the fuck are they not doing EVERYTHING that can be done after 40 plus days of oil pouring into our waters is beyond me.


http://www.fastcompany.com/1646820/could-the-gulf-oil-spill-could-cleaned-up-by-supertankers