136 posts
http://soundcloud.com/tone-is-everything/kemper-with-golub-crunch-mod
http://soundcloud.com/tone-is-everything/kemper-with-golub-crunch-mod-1
http://soundcloud.com/tone-is-everything/kemper-with-golub-crunch-mod-2
This profile alone is enough reason for me to buy a Kemper.
That's pretty damn sick... The last clip gets EJish at times. Damn!
It sounds good. But seriously, this player is so good they'd sound good through a Crate. There's a point at which the player dictates the sound more than the gear, and I hear that here.
umm. ok. Lets see if this guy will trade it for a Crate I'll gladly supply. Seriously, i know what you are saying, but this is crazy good territory for "not an amp".
charger — Feb 21, 2012It sounds good. But seriously, this player is so good they'd sound good through a Crate. There's a point at which the player dictates the sound more than the gear, and I hear that here.
lmao
awesome clip (listened to the first one)... but the problem I'm having with these kemper clips is that there is no frame of reference.
they sound great but what did this guy sound like through a "normal" recording chain? is the kemper better, worse or the same? how is it different? what does he sound like if he goes direct out from his amp to IR cabs?
those are the things that keep me from being super interested in this thing - I was drooling over pod 1.0 and 2.0 tones at the time but only after using them for a while did I really appreciate what was missing... I can't tell what's missing from (or improved in) this guy's recorded tone (if anything) without some context.
KrankZilla — Feb 21, 2012umm. ok. Lets see if this guy will trade it for a Crate I'll gladly supply. Seriously, i know what you are saying, but this is crazy good territory for "not an amp".
This guy records a demo with any of my amps, and I'm willing to bet I'd be equally impressed. It's the playing on it that is impressive to me. Especially since you singled out that third clip (the only one I listened to) as getting into Eric Johnson territory. That's technique.
charger — Feb 21, 2012It sounds good. But seriously, this player is so good they'd sound good through a Crate. There's a point at which the player dictates the sound more than the gear, and I hear that here.
Paul, is this why that even when I play through PRS>Budda I still sound like shite? :)
http://soundcloud.com/mdaniel/kemper-kpa-british-sound
This is also a Kemper, in the hands of a a much more mediocre player... If what I'm saying doesn't make sense after this clip then none of my arguments will. Especially if you start listening at around :50.
You can play this game at home...
Search soundcloud for Kemper KPA, play through some of the sounds. To be sure, there are some really ear-catching clips, and there's some "meh." From what I hear, the amount of "meh" I feel for the Kemper (or for a Pod, or for an AXE-fx) is directly related to how amazing the player is, and how interesting what they play is.
whatever. I'm not interested in aback and forth with you about this.
this sounds like the old "tone is in the hands" argument (with which I mostly disagree...) Phrasing is in the hands. I know that to some degree, the tone is influenced by the hands, but IMO the pick as much or more than the actual hands! And yes I do understand that the harder you pick, etc influences, and that is with the hands. But I also know moving your picking slot 2" closer to the neck or the bridge each changes the tone quite a bit. But the feel, phrasing, etc. that separate a good player from bad, or great from good... that is not "tone." I ALWAYS try to separate the two when I listen to clips to hear, no matter how good or bad the player is, how good does the device sound.
I have heard some very average player Kemper clips that sound great with no fancy playing at all. The TONE is very good. And I've heard some that were mediocre which means that like anything, it can sound not so great.
The more important thing to me is, it CAN sound GREAT and often does. As I said before, we all talked years ago about when digital would "equal" tube amps. IF it's not there, it's so close it hardly matters.
DreamTheaterRules — Feb 21, 2012this sounds like the old "tone is in the hands" argument (with which I mostly disagree...) Phrasing is in the hands.
I couldn't disagree with you more. I believe the way a player plays an instrument absolutely affects the tone of it. As a veteran of several WHS, you should know this as well as anyone. Through the exact same rig, every player's sounds different.
The more important thing to me is, it CAN sound GREAT and often does. As I said before, we all talked years ago about when digital would "equal" tube amps. IF it's not there, it's so close it hardly matters.
Would equal
recorded tube amps, you mean. I agree, it sounds like the recording chains it emulates. But, personally, I would still take a 5 watt tube combo that I could play in the room with the drummer over this. But again, I play live with other musicians a lot, and I need a tube amp. I am 99% convinced that playing a KPA or whatever through monitor speakers is not going to give me what I get from the room with a real tube amp.
Nevermind. Please enjoy this brief intermission.
KrankZilla — Feb 21, 2012whatever. I'm not interested in aback and forth with you about this.
On my opinion? ok...
Ok, even though I'm officially not interested :) - your opinion on the KPA is well established. For some reason you may believe I can't identify the difference talent makes on perceived tone by the changes in attack, etc. I can see where my original comment might make you think that. But I can. I was remarking on the tone itself. I've not heard this out of a POD. Kudos to you if you have.
It's an amazingly good tone, for sure. Will a Pod HD get tone like that? I have no idea, I've heard probably ten clips from the Pod HD, I stopped listening to modelers a long time ago, except when they pop up here. Pod is a modeler for the masses, though, $300-400. But I've heard Fractal tones in that territory for sure--and yeah, I have the same problem with the fractal box as the Kemper, too expensive...
Whilst I agree "tone is in the hands", you can clearly hear the machine he's using is helping his hands create some magical recorded tones.
There's great playing with a decent tone, there's great playing with a good tone, there's great playing with a very very good tone, and there's great playing with a fucking amazing tone...the great playing is consistent, but the tone isn't.
Charger, I should be more clear. I didn't mean that exactly the way it came off. I hear guys say "this guy sounds the same no matter what rig he plays" all the time. It's in THAT way, that I disagree with "tone is in the hands." If you play my PRS > Budda, you AREN'T going to have the same TONE as if you play your home made strat into your tweaker. HOWEVER, you certainly WILL still sound like Charger. No doubt, no question.
I fully understand how hard you pick what pick you use, and how all those things affect tone. I know that. But when players say "he sounds the same through every rig" it's the players feel, phasing, etc. that is the same and NOT the actual tone.
I've done some pretty fun experiments with this, as we probably all have. I can tell you as a clear example, that the picks that I think let me play the best are not the picks I use because they definitely affect the tone in a way I can't seem to work around. I can tell you I like playing some things closer to the bridge because of the tension difference, but it doesn't sound best there even though its easier to pay there. You can easily make yourself sound more like someone else by using his gear, but also by doing what he does...
All that aside, I'm with Paul on this... I can separate the two when checking out gear. I'm pretty sure I can get the TONE I heard Schilsy playing the other day with his new pedal, if I get one. No, I won't play like he does, but I can get that tone.
That's why we keep wondering why you seem to have a bug up your rear end about the Kemper. Seriously, what is Lances potential sales market in this forum? 2-3??? He isn't trying to sell them. He's just showing us what they will do. Some thing others have done here with PODs for years now... Whether you need one, want one, can use one or not, many of us don't understand why you keep busting on it. This is a small forum. Putting up clips of gear for discussion is big part of it. Lance puts them up. Many are SERIOUSLY great sounding. I really dig hearing them just as I dig Derek's Splawn, or someone elses big Mesa, or other things that I'll never own. That said, I'll admit that the clips are SO good, I'm actually thinking about getting one.
It's pretty simple. I like tube amps. I like to play them in rooms, with things like drums, and other people. I do not believe that recording devices will *ever* replace real tube amps, period. When I see devices--computers--costing $2k to replicate tube amps, it makes me somehow irritated. I realize this is a change from my Pod forum days, but guys, that was 10+ years ago. I see modelers as scratch trackers, recording tools, hell, I use a plugin to record scratch tracks too, but I see music as a living and live thing. I just get more satisfaction from playing in a room than I used to, and I love tube amps.
I used to love Pods. Mostly because I am notoriously cheap. I loved the idea of spending $250 to get all those tones. But now we've got an amp in our studio built from a Hammond organ, with something like $150 in parts, that has the most awesome distortion and tone of anything I've heard, and can keep up with the drums, bass, and one or two other guitarists. C'est la vie.
It's just a damn sweet tone. I don't care if it came from an electric can opener with a USB port (for downloading new can profiles, silly), versus a tube amp. Liking the tone does not suddenly make me think tube amps and/or talent are obsolete.
The same guy has a massive collection of videos on his youtube channel, mostly of killer amps, guitars, and pedals.
389 videos! And pretty righteous whatever-it-is-that-you-don't-want-me-to-call-tone on every one.
I want his job, whatever it is.
http://www.youtube.com/user/5v1L0/
Charger, most of that applies to me too. And probably most of us. I can plug into the SD18 and change guitars 5 nights in a row and get great tone of many different flavors. Then switch to the Tweaker and do the same thing all over. And I'll go WEEKS without touching my PODHD until I have to get ready to play at church or wherever. I'll work on a tone that week, play that time, and not touch it again for weeks..
I think the Kemper is on a different level though. I can see it taking a turn where I play it for a week and not the amps. I think it might be THAT good. If it gave me the same quality of tone as my amps, plus Dereks, Sheeps, Pauls, and many other guys amps, and all at the REAL amp sound quality, I would certainly play it way more than the PODHD. Might even sell a ( :o) tube amp to fund something that can sound like many great tube amps.
Plus, since I'm nice to Lance (and a Biblically directed friend of the Jews in general) I'm thinking I might even get a discount! ;D
Are these guys putting up the Kemper tone samples saying how loud they're having to record them? I mean regardless of the source, an actual cranked amp (or a machine that spits out captured curves from one, then fed into another amp/cab/mic) is still usually key for great tone. When they can dupe the real thing and have equal results being tracked direct or at least at wife/girlfriend friendly levels, then they'll have my attention, because otherwise, their only draw for people like me is this idea of having a jillion different 'amps in one box'....and I've been there before, lost interest really quick. I'm not noticing any happy Kempler owners selling off their tube amps. Some of my most favorite players use a small, select handful of tube amps and concentrate on creating their music when in the studio....this seems right to me. I can barely handle two or three pedals, heads, cabs and mics, lol. I'm never going down that distracting, 'endless tone possibility' road again, I'm too dull for it I guess, I prefer my comfort zone small, simple and sweet.
I can see the Kemper putting a lot of boutique tube amp companies, and related companies (for example, gear rental companies) out of business. Maybe computers really can replace everything. I'll stick by my tube amps though... I like the way they breathe fire at me, fight back when I slam them, and fill the room with low end.
Now that the dude posted the profile of that amp that started this thread, I am interested to hear what other people do with it and how it sounds in a more normal player's hands.
Kabala — Feb 22, 2012
Are these guys putting up the Kemper tone samples saying how loud they're having to record them? I mean regardless of the source, an actual cranked amp (or a machine that spits out captured curves from one, then fed into another amp/cab/mic) is still usually key for great tone. When they can dupe the real thing and have equal results being tracked direct or at least at wife/girlfriend friendly levels, then they'll have my attention, because otherwise, their only draw for people like me is this idea of having a jillion different 'amps in one box'....and I've been there before, lost interest really quick. I'm not noticing any happy Kempler owners selling off their tube amps. Some of my most favorite players use a small, select handful of tube amps and concentrate on creating their music when in the studio....this seems right to me. I can barely handle two or three pedals, heads, cabs and mics, lol. I'm never going down that distracting, endless tone road again, I'm too dull for it I guess, I prefer my comfort zone small, simple and sweet.
How loud? They record direct. Volume free.
As for people selling off their amps, they will. The question is, will people still build boutique amps when they become irrelevant?
To get a good profile of an amp you certainly have to crank the amp during the profiling process
No way. So that was a direct tone. Shit. That is impressive then. Scary actually.
I hear ya, Jon, I understand the capturing procedure, I was just curious about these clips surfacing from guys loading up someone elses profile....are they running their Kempers with favorite profiles through a pwr amp, tweak the eq, then out to a cab and recording that tone, or are they simply using the Kemper straight into their PC/DAW.
I agree about the OP clips - some dudes can just coax a damn nice tone out of next to nothing. I wonder if he's charging for the profile, lol...another debate developing....folks profiting from a 'profile' of an amp that some other company created/developed in the first place. Crazy times.
Dunno. before the POD I only had my 70's JMP head, then I went racky for years, using a Kasha, then Marshall, then Rocktron (Voodu Valve). So I really didn't know about very many amps by the time I got the POD. Since the POD I have had and sold a Vetta, bought and kept a Mesa 20/20 power amp, A rockmaster preamp, an Engl preamp, and a Krankenstein head. I don't see myself parting with any of it. Yet I'd like some more added, like a MiniRecto, heck I'd love a Bogner in there. So this thing kind of appeals to me on that level, yet the thought of endlessly chasing down who has the best profile of this or that makes me agree with Derek :)
Anyhow, I'm sure some silly folks will sell their boutique stuff, but I don't see it being some sort of mass revolution. I think most anybody is going to prefer a real amp in a real room for playing, like charger does. I do too. Nothing beats the feel of shaking the floor with the power under your fingers :D
Hell I'm mostly using 5-15 watt amps and there's not a ton of floor shaking going on, plenty of snare rattling though. The exception is that Hammond 18 watt conversion... That thing has low end and gain... Huge sound. The 50 and 60 watt amps never get played anymore...
charger — Feb 22, 2012
Now that the dude posted the profile of that amp that started this thread, I am interested to hear what other people do with it and how it sounds in a more normal player's hands.
Just like with your tube amps, they'll sound different depending on who's playing them.
A better player than you will make your tube amp sound better than when you're playing it.
Why would you expect anything different with this particular Marshall Profile?
"I like tube amps. I like to play them in rooms, with things like drums, and other people."Trust me, plug a Kemper into a FRFR powered monitor and play along with a drummer and other people and you'll have the same experience.
Kabala — Feb 22, 2012
No way. So that was a direct tone. Shit. That is impressive then. Scary actually.
I hear ya, Jon, I understand the capturing procedure, I was just curious about these clips surfacing from guys loading up someone elses profile....are they running their Kempers with favorite profiles through a pwr amp, tweak the eq, then out to a cab and recording that tone, or are they simply using the Kemper straight into their PC/DAW.
I agree about the OP clips - some dudes can just coax a damn nice tone out of next to nothing. I wonder if he's charging for the profile, lol...another debate developing....folks profiting from a 'profile' of an amp that some other company created/developed in the first place. Crazy times.
Every recording you're hearing is direct.
The studio guys who have bought a Kemper down here in SA are pretty amazed at the DI recordings they're getting.
I'm sure you've heard this recording before, Robin is the man who runs Fender South Africa.
I sent him a Kemper to demo, he switched it on, found a few Fender Profiles, and recorded.
He's been miking amps for 20 years, he reckoned he couldn't get a better Fender clean tone than he got on this recording.
http://soundcloud.com/temper59/robin-gallagher-the-kemper
Having said that, your miked amp recordings are fantastic, so there you go.
charger — Feb 22, 2012
Now that the dude posted the profile of that amp that started this thread, I am interested to hear what other people do with it and how it sounds in a more normal player's hands.
E-x-a-c-t-l-y!
Lance!!!!! :)
Zonta — Feb 22, 2012[quote author=charger link=1329843599/0#24 date=1329869430]
Now that the dude posted the profile of that amp that started this thread, I am interested to hear what other people do with it and how it sounds in a more normal player's hands.
E-x-a-c-t-l-y!
Lance!!!!! :)
No fucking way. :P
Charger said in a
normal players hands, I've been insane for years, I'm "pleading the Fifth". ;D
Zonta — Feb 22, 2012Jon!!!! :D
OK, here's some "hack" playing sounds from me. This is a profile of my JCA20H through various cabs, some good, some not so good and some fucking horrible, but there you go. All Kemper, nothing external.
Right mouse click on link and then save-as to download
http://www.mp3.mushroom-farm.com/download/kemper/JCA20H_profile_various_cabs_test1.mp3
Jon — Feb 22, 2012[quote author=Zonta link=1329843599/25#34 date=1329897665]Jon!!!! :D
OK, here's some "hack" playing sounds from me. This is a profile of my JCA20H through various cabs, some good, some not so good and some fucking horrible, but there you go. All Kemper, nothing external.
Right mouse click on link and then save-as to download
http://www.mp3.mushroom-farm.com/download/kemper/JCA20H_profile_various_cabs_test1.mp3
Downloading.
They want you to post a clip using the same Profile as the original clip. ;D
What is the profile called, do you have a link ?
Here:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28509587/2012-02-21%2020-03-45%20-%20Marshall%20Golub%20Crunc.kipr
No Zepplin please!!!!!!! ;D
Loading it up now, so will post something in a bit.
Great. We have to convince Charger so make that axe cry! ;D
Sound completely different with a different guitar, different pickups and of course different player
www.mp3.mushroom-farm.com/download/kemper/Marshall_Golub_Crunch.mp3
Funny thing is, I actually don't like that sound at all, even the original at the top of this thread. Sounds like it has a blanket over it...I like brighter, punchier sounds.
Something is wrong with the high end due to mp3 coding. Jon do you mind posting the wave file also?
Zonta — Feb 22, 2012Something is wrong with the high end due to mp3 coding. Jon do you mind posting the wave file also?
Sorry, I don't have it. Just a quick record and encode straight to mp3.
By the way, the mp3 sounds just as when I recorded it to me. The original at the top of this thread might have been fiddled with post recording of course ;)
Nice tone...definitely sounds like the same patch, but like you said, different guitar and such makes a subtle difference...and yep, the high end is just a little tapered off in your clip by comparison, the other sample is a little snappier as a result.
Ok Jon's is thicker (I mean the tone 8-)) yet both are still very similar.
Zonta — Feb 22, 2012Ok Jon's is thicker (I mean the tone 8-)) yet both are still very similar.
I used a Les Paul of course, not sure what the original used ?
He used single coils.
Tyler Classic maple neck with Suhr SSV and Tyler Stingray singlecoils, in the middle of the track I hit the Little Brute Drive pedal in front of the Kemper.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1037439
Zonta — Feb 22, 2012He used single coils.
Tyler Classic maple neck with Suhr SSV and Tyler Stingray singlecoils, in the middle of the track I hit the Little Brute Drive pedal in front of the Kemper.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1037439
That makes a difference then. I will try it again with my Tele.
OK then, here's two more goes at it.
I'm using the Fender Tele this time (stings are a bit rusty, but what the hell)
Standard settings of the profile "as is"
www.mp3.mushroom-farm.com/download/kemper/tele.mp3
This is my preferred one... I dropped the treble on the Kemper but increased the presence. Might be too bright for you though !
www.mp3.mushroom-farm.com/download/kemper/tele2.mp3